British regiment commander killed in 'huge' bomb attack in Afghanistan

okioffice84 · 03-07-2009 3:51am #1

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/jul/02/british-regiment-commander-killed-afghanistan

I have to say, I have no sympathy when I hear a story like this. For the man's family & friends , of course I feel a pang of grief. But for the man himself; he knew or should have known what the british army is and was, what it has done and what it will do. And he was willing to sign up to that and all that it entails. Discuss.

cyrusdvirus · 03-07-2009 9:54am

okioffice84 wrote: »

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/jul/02/british-regiment-commander-killed-afghanistan

I have to say, I have no sympathy when I hear a story like this. For the man's family & friends , of course I feel a pang of grief. But for the man himself; he knew or should have known what the british army is and was, what it has done and what it will do. And he was willing to sign up to that and all that it entails. Discuss.

That depends.......... Which way are you coming from? Are you saying all soldiers know that there is a possibi9lity that they may have to fight, and die....... or are you saying that he was a part of the big bad british army and deserved everything he got as a result.....

The man died in service of his country. I really don't think that his family friends and colleagues could give a damn whether or not someone from a different country, with a very much love/hate relationship with England (as in some of the people in this country can't let go of the fact that the majority of the people in this country voted to drop the constitutional claim on the 6 counties, and have decided that England as a friend is a hell of a lot better than being treated with disdain everytime you set foot in the country because of the actions of a few of our so caled countrymen) feels no sympathy for them. And you know what.......they'd be right to not care.

Personally I have sympathy for them all, for his colleagues that were injured, and for him. The man died in service of his country, same as any Garda, Policeman, Soldier or Sailor of any nation.

McArmalite · 03-07-2009 11:10am

gatecrash wrote: »

That depends.......... Which way are you coming from? Are you saying all soldiers know that there is a possibi9lity that they may have to fight, and die....... or are you saying that he was a part of the big bad british army and deserved everything he got as a result.....

The man died in service of his country. I really don't think that his family friends and colleagues could give a damn whether or not someone from a different country, with a very much love/hate relationship with England (as in some of the people in this country can't let go of the fact that the majority of the people in this country voted to drop the constitutional claim on the 6 counties, and have decided that England as a friend is a hell of a lot better than being treated with disdain everytime you set foot in the country because of the actions of a few of our so caled countrymen) feels no sympathy for them. And you know what.......they'd be right to not care.

Personally I have sympathy for them all, for his colleagues that were injured, and for him. The man died in service of his country, same as any Garda, Policeman, Soldier or Sailor of any nation.

" The man died in service of his country. So the " serivce of his country " entitles him and others like him, to kill, maim and terrrorise anyone throughout the world. Just because he puts on a brit uniform, that makes him automatically an unquestioning ' good guy ' in your books ??

irishgrover · 03-07-2009 11:31am

McArmalite wrote: »

" The man died in service of his country. So the " serivce of his country " entitles him and others like him, to kill, maim and terrrorise anyone throughout the world. Just because he puts on a brit uniform, that makes him automatically an unquestioning ' good guy ' in your books ??

may as well jump right into the argument that you inevitably always want to have...
IMHO opinion 99.9% of the time the guy in the British uniform will always be the "good guy" in my books when compared to a member of the taliban, or a balaclava wearing, hiding in a ditch, 32 county loving, armalite carrying, Sinn Fein T-shirt wearing, murdering arsehole, waiting to shot someone in the back, claiming to do it on behalf of my country.
More generally he was a soldier, and died doing his job, he knew the dangers and did his job, may he rest in peace...

cyrusdvirus · 03-07-2009 11:33am

McArmalite wrote: »

" The man died in service of his country. So the " serivce of his country " entitles him and others like him, to kill, maim and terrrorise anyone throughout the world. Just because he puts on a brit uniform, that makes him automatically an unquestioning ' good guy ' in your books ??

If this guy was a balaclava wearing, AK-47 wielding, nail bomb carrying, trailer full of fertiliser bomb towing, car bomb driving member of an illegal organisation in the 6 counties and was shot dead, there would be people on here wailing about his civil liberties.

The fact that this man wore a Union Jack on the Sleeve of his BDU makes him a murdering terrorist???

Riiiiiight........

DAMN YOU GROVER!!!!!!!!!!! ..........

Looks like we were copying each others work now!!

03-07-2009 12:12pm

okioffice84 wrote: »

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/jul/02/british-regiment-commander-killed-afghanistan

I have to say, I have no sympathy when I hear a story like this. For the man's family & friends , of course I feel a pang of grief. But for the man himself; he knew or should have known what the british army is and was, what it has done and what it will do. And he was willing to sign up to that and all that it entails. Discuss.

Ok, I will discuss. He died not only serving his country, but a U.N backed mission bringing stability to a region of the world that needs it. He was apparently a top guy who probably couldnt give a flying **** about what a bunch of RA heads on an internet board thought of him. He will be missed.

This thread was never opened for a decent debate. You and McArmalite should split the taxi fair to the pub, get pissed and talk about the good ole days of when the various IRA splinter groups killed and maimed Protestant and Catholic civies for "the cause".

the_syco · 03-07-2009 12:13pm

McArmalite wrote: »

" The man died in service of his country. So the " serivce of his country " entitles him and others like him, to kill, maim and terrrorise anyone throughout the world. Just because he puts on a brit uniform, that makes him automatically an unquestioning ' good guy ' in your books ??

No, it's because he fights the good fight that makes him the "good guy".

Dozen Wicked Words · 03-07-2009 12:17pm

What I find most unpleasant about this is the scant coverage the trooper who died with the Lt Col. has received.

I understand he is the highest ranked officer to die since the Falklands, there is a reason for this. Officers as highly ranked as him do not often serve on the front line or in places of extreme danger, that is left to junior officers and regular soldiers who receive a namecheck at best when they die in war.

Morlar · 03-07-2009 12:19pm

This discussion has nothing to do with Ireland. I would rather see the british army/the american army successful in afghanistan than the taliban.

This is the same taliban who murder Irish aid workers and execute women who try to teach a school class ffs. Beheading christians & advocate stoning raped women to death. No one with a molecule of morality or intelligence would cheer them on. Get a grip here, not every single thing revolves around Ireland.

R.I.P.

iceage · 03-07-2009 1:17pm

Condolences to both their families and mates. Lt. Col Thorneloe and Trp Hammond. RIP.

Poccington · 03-07-2009 3:06pm

*Groan*

Lads, please try keep this from descending into the "We hate the Brits" and the "We think the Brits are good skins" kind of argument.

Poccington · 03-07-2009 3:07pm

dooferoaks wrote: »

What I find most unpleasant about this is the scant coverage the trooper who died with the Lt Col. has received.

I understand he is the highest ranked officer to die since the Falklands, there is a reason for this. Officers as highly ranked as him do not often serve on the front line or in places of extreme danger, that is left to junior officers and regular soldiers who receive a namecheck at best when they die in war.

In Afghanistan that's not really true, as Battle Groups rotate you'll find that their CO's are actually getting out and about a fair bit.

tfitzgerald · 03-07-2009 3:17pm

i dont care what he was doing or what uniform he was wearing. i think any loss of life is wrong and sad

diverdriver · 03-07-2009 3:22pm

The one useful thing about threads like this is that is exposes certain people who post here for what they are. The sort of people whose distorted view of the world leads them to support great evils like the Taliban and other deeply unpleasant terrorist organisations just because of our history with our nearest neighbour.

It's an unpleasant reminder of our recent past when these people's heroes planted no warning bombs in crowded city streets, when they murdered and tortured people who opposed them. When they undertook a campaign of terror and expected us to believe they were fighting for 'freedom'. They don't even know the meaning of the word.

It's sickening.

Morlar · 03-07-2009 3:28pm

diverdriver wrote: »

The one useful thing about threads like this is that is exposes certain people who post here for what they are. The sort of people whose distorted view of the world leads them to support great evils like the Taliban and other deeply unpleasant terrorist organisations just because of our history with our nearest neighbour.

It's an unpleasant reminder of our recent past when these people's heroes planted no warning bombs in crowded city streets, when they murdered and tortured people who opposed them. When they undertook a campaign of terror and expected us to believe they were fighting for 'freedom'. They don't even know the meaning of the word.

It's sickening.

Much as I think Ireland has nothing to do with this thread your comments above are equally unrelated. You are injecting politicised remarks/rhetoric where they do not belong (in my view). ie in a thread about deaths of british army soldiers in Afghanistan at the hands of the taliban.

OS119 · 03-07-2009 9:26pm

Morlar wrote: »

Much as I think Ireland has nothing to do with this thread....

Actually Ireland does have a teensy-weensy bit to do with this thread - CO 1WG was engaged in a UN mandated operation that not only did Ireland vote for, but is also militarily and politically involved in.

same 'mission', same chain of command, same ISAF patch on their uniforms.

an attack by McArmalite's rape-victim stoning mates (for that is what they are...) on one ISAF soldier is an attack on all ISAF soldiers, the UN and by definition an attack on the states that mandated that mission.

Morlar · 03-07-2009 9:42pm

OS119 wrote: »

Actually Ireland does have a teensy-weensy bit to do with this thread - CO 1WG was engaged in a UN mandated operation that not only did Ireland vote for, but is also militarily and politically involved in.

same 'mission', same chain of command, same ISAF patch on their uniforms.

an attack by McArmalite's rape-victim stoning mates (for that is what they are...) on one ISAF soldier is an attack on all ISAF soldiers, the UN and by definition an attack on the states that mandated that mission.

Well that is a good point - to clarify I was referring to 'Ireland of the troubles', or in terms of the british army in Ireland which is not relevant to this discussion.

okioffice84 · 03-07-2009 9:46pm

It was not my intent to have this thread move into the usual us v the Brits, but I suppose it was inevitable.
My original point was that the british army has a long, very long history of intervention where it is not wanted and anyone signing up, especially an officer should know this.
Every time I read of another british death in Afghanistan I'm reminded of how history is repeating itself.

Take a look at Rudyard Kipling (written a long time ago)- From the poem "The young British soldier"

When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains,
And the women come out to cut up what remains,
Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains
An' go to your Gawd like a soldier.
Go, go, go like a soldier,
Go, go, go like a soldier,
Go, go, go like a soldier,
So-oldier ~of~ the Queen!

iceage · 03-07-2009 9:54pm

outstanding...Bet you've been waiting all day to drop that one in there.

Any ditties say for the American soldier who found himself in dire straits recently in the AFG?

What about the other nationalities that have lost they're lives intervening in other countries over the years who were not in a position to sort themselves out? Let me see....

American
Canadian
French
Italian
German
Polish
Japenese

Shall I go on? thers plenty more OH I forgot.

Irish

iceage · 03-07-2009 11:16pm

dooferoaks wrote: »

What I find most unpleasant about this is the scant coverage the trooper who died with the Lt Col. has received.

Like most things military dooferoaks, there is a reason for everything. I thought you might appreciate this.

http://www.thisisplymouth.co.uk/news/Plymouth-soldier-killed-Afghanistan/article-1134649-detail/article.html#StartComments

Hope the linky thing works, not the most net savvy guy here, and several pints later I'm amazed at my self control on this Forum, by now I'd be banned after replying to some of the glib comments I've seen bandied about.

Manic Moran · 04-07-2009 5:44am

A large portion of the LTCs and COLs we have here are out and about on a daily basis. The main fight in Afghanistan is over the governance of the people, not killing Taliban, something which few people seem to acknowledge. As a result, there's a lot of meetings and mentoring going on in the various cities, towns and villages which really has to be done by officers, and often the senior battalion or brigade level to do several things such as show the locals that we respect them enough to send the senior guys out there, co-ordinate ISAF responses at an appropriate level (There's only so much pull a Captain can have to co-ordinate engineering projects or whatnot), and to simply focus on the important things in his battlespace.

And it's not as if Afghanistan doesn't need it. When I got here, they showed me comparison charts between 2001 figures and 2008 figures, and the differences in infrastructure are absolutley astounding. Kms of roads, # kids in school, % people with access to sanitation, infant mortality rate... we're talking 800% improvements. At least Iraq had an infrastructure, dilapidated though it was, to work with and rebuild. In Afghanistan, we're starting from scratch.

NTM

the_syco · 06-07-2009 1:00am

okioffice84 wrote: »

But for the man himself; he knew or should have known what the british army is and was, what it has done and what it will do. And he was willing to sign up to that and all that it entails.

He signed up to be a soldier, knowing that he could be shot at and killed. Irish soldiers have also gotten killed, some as young as the lad in the story, albeit by mortar fire. What's your point?

=-=

Manic Moran: did the vikings in Afghanistan have cages on them? They look odd with them on, but I assume they have a good reason?

=-=

To the 'RA heads with a massive chip on their shoulder, move on. Hell, even the loyalists have decommissioned, and moved on.

Manic Moran · 06-07-2009 4:00am

No idea. Not seen any recent pictures of them. But nothing is impervious to everything.

NTM

neilled · 06-07-2009 9:55am

the_syco wrote: »

He signed up to be a soldier, knowing that he could be shot at and killed. Irish soldiers have also gotten killed, some as young as the lad in the story, albeit by mortar fire. What's your point?

=-=

Manic Moran: did the vikings in Afghanistan have cages on them? They look odd with them on, but I assume they have a good reason?

=-=

To the 'RA heads with a massive chip on their shoulder, move on. Hell, even the loyalists have decommissioned, and moved on.

Most of the pic's of vikings that I have seen recently show them with that cage armour. However, most of the casualties are coming from IED's.

McArmalite · 06-07-2009 10:33am

the_syco wrote: »

He signed up to be a soldier, knowing that he could be shot at and killed. Irish soldiers have also gotten killed, some as young as the lad in the story, albeit by mortar fire. What's your point?

=-=

Manic Moran: did the vikings in Afghanistan have cages on them? They look odd with them on, but I assume they have a good reason?

=-=

To the 'RA heads with a massive chip on their shoulder, move on. Hell, even the loyalists have decommissioned, and moved on.

Yes, I think we should move on and have the british forces decommissioned from Ireland once and for all.