Rental agency want 3 months bank statements

quad_red

After much painful searching, we've sorted out and agreed to take a two bed apartment.

The agency want a few things:
Letters from previous landlords - fine
Letters from work detailing how long we've been in our jobs, how much we earn, are we contract or permanent - fine I suppose.
Three months bank statements.....

I'm having a problem with that. Why would they want three months bank statements? Is this not an invasion of privacy?

pwd

Yep it is. My agency falsely said I hadn't paid the rent lone month, which was on direct debit. They demanded to see a statement from the bank demonstrating I had. I went into the bank and they told me that yes the debit had gone through and that the agency had absolutely no right to ask to see my statements. Went to the letting agency and suddenly they found their records which they claimed to benon-existant of the transaction.

D3PO

yep they have no right to ask for that and in a renters market im sure they will abck down pretty wuick when you say no.

reminds me of an even funnier story when i was buying. I put a bid on a property and the EA wanted to see the paperwork for my mortgage approval.

yeah like Im going to show you that so you can push the house price up to my upper limit. :rolleyes:

bangersandmash

quad_red wrote: »

The agency want a few things:
Letters from previous landlords - fine
Letters from work detailing how long we've been in our jobs, how much we earn, are we contract or permanent - fine I suppose.
Three months bank statements.....

I'm having a problem with that. Why would they want three months bank statements? Is this not an invasion of privacy?

Back up a minute. Letters detailing how much you earn? You're looking to rent a property, not take out a mortgage. If they need surety, that's what the deposit is for. Your salary is none of their business.

I would draw the line at a bank reference, a work reference (official confirmation of title/position only), and a single reference from a previous landlord. Anything beyond that and I'd walk away.

It's amazing the demands that some agencies still make. My favourite is one that operates in South Dublin. They insist on a "reservation fee" of €150. And if they disapprove of your references, you won't be refunded. No wonder so many of their properties seem to be on the rental market for so long.

The way some agents act anybody would think there was a shortage of rental properties in this country.

Jo King

bangersandmash wrote: »

Back up a minute. Letters detailing how much you earn? You're looking to rent a property, not take out a mortgage. If they need surety, that's what the deposit is for. Your salary is none of their business.

I would draw the line at a bank reference, a work reference (official confirmation of title/position only), and a single reference from a previous landlord. Anything beyond that and I'd walk away.

It's amazing the demands that some agencies still make. My favourite is one that operates in South Dublin. They insist on a "reservation fee" of €150. And if they disapprove of your references, you won't be refunded. No wonder so many of their properties seem to be on the rental market for so long.

The way some agents act anybody would think there was a shortage of rental properties in this country.

A reservation fee is illegal. They are only entitled to a fee from one party to the transaction.

antoinolachtnai

I see where you are coming from, and it might not a good way to do business, but how do you reckon it's illegal?

Jo King

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

I see where you are coming from, and it might not a good way to do business, but how do you reckon it's illegal?

From the Auctioneers and House Agents Act 1973:

"2.—(1) Subject to subsection (2) of this section, any provision (whether express or implied) in an agreement entered into after the commencement of this Act and relating to the sale, lease or letting of property (not being personal chattels), whereby the purchaser, lessee or tenant is required to pay or bear the cost of auctioneers' or house agents' fees or expenses in respect of the sale, lease or letting, shall be void, and any moneys paid under or on foot of such a provision shall be recoverable as a simple contract debt in a court of competent jurisdiction."

quad_red

Well, this isn't a small letting agent.

It's Sherry Fitz in the IFSC (is it acceptable to give a letting agents name?)

We've been looking at places for three weeks and I have found the behaviour, demeanour of most letting agents disappointing, irritating and downright rude.

I was hoping the changed market would improve things since last we looked.

We were wrong.

mikemac

I've never, ever been asked for a landlord reference and I've dealt directly with landlords and with agents.

And this includes renting in Dublin years ago where people queued up to view places. Remember those days *shudders*

I wouldn't give bank statements, your deposit is your security.
If they want to confirm you have a full-time job then that's fine, just give the name and number of your manager/HR

Tell them to feck off looking for bank statements.

Victor

Potentially, let them see the bank statements, but not take copies. It shows you have an income and that you aren't €22,000 overdrawn*, proving ability to pay. It also demonstrates where you lived (or at least had an address). Taking copies stinks of identity theft.


* Of course, you could happily have €5,000 in your current account and be €22,000 overdrawn on your credit card.

jape

Tell them to go and f**k, there's a flood of rental properties on the market, why aren't you letting privately by the way? It's much less hassle in my experience.

antoinolachtnai

The usual reason to check bank statements is to determine ability to pay. It's really the only way to do it with any reliability.

I wouldn't do it myself. But in some places (New York comes to mind) it'd be very much the norm.

RentDayBlues

We're letting from Sherry Fitz and we had to furnish the same docs - previous LL reference, work reference detailing salary and coy of bank statement. Obviously this is their policy. We had no issue with it

gurramok

They have no right to see what you earn or what is in your bank account. Work Ref, Landlord ref and maybe evidence of ID is fine.

OP, you should walk away with those demands, plenty of fish in the sea as to speak to get another property.

Carawaystick

I suppose you could always turn the tables on them, ask them for copies of their bank statements - just to make sure you'll get your deposit back....

holyjoe

RentDayBlues wrote: »

We're letting from Sherry Fitz and we had to furnish the same docs - previous LL reference, work reference detailing salary and coy of bank statement. Obviously this is their policy. We had no issue with it

:eek:

jesus, i cant believe people disclose personal details like that to complete strangers. if they asked for you bank card and pin number would you give it as well!

there plenty of properties on the market and the only reason they ask for personal details like that is becuase some peole are foolish enough to give it to them. OP dont be one of thise fools.

Sir Oxman

Agree with the majority on the thread - tell them to buzz off.

voxpop

Thats a load of rubbish tbh - why would you be looking at a house you cant afford to rent. How much you earn or how you spend you money (bank statements) should have nothing to do with a rental agreement. They get a deposit - that should be enough.

You should be asking the landlord for 3 months bank statements to ensure he is able to pay the mortgage on the property and its not going to be repossessed.

RentDayBlues

This was 3 years ago and was their policy - the market was different. I wouldn't do the same now as renters have the upper hand.

And your insinuating that I would stupidly give away personal details such as pin number is uncalled for - I was not recommending anything to the OP, just explaining my experience.

oceanclub

There's no way I would show a letting agency details of my bank statements. A bank account number should suffice.

I was asked for a landlord reference and simply ignored it. Letting agencies are not going to turn down tenants.

P.

batman_oh

Moving into a house next week with same crowd, Sherry Fitzgeral in IFSC. Have asked for a copy of 3 months bank statements. Have paid the deposit but have not given these yet. Should be tell then to f.*k off so?
I assumed it was normal(ish)

gurramok

batman_oh wrote: »

Moving into a house next week with same crowd, Sherry Fitzgeral in IFSC. Have asked for a copy of 3 months bank statements. Have paid the deposit but have not given these yet. Should be tell then to f.*k off so?
I assumed it was normal(ish)

Nope, not normal. There is a thing called the Data Protection Act and letting agencies frankly do not come under the range of institutions to have access to your data as a right!

bobbiw

quad_red wrote: »

After much painful searching, we've sorted out and agreed to take a two bed apartment.

The agency want a few things:
Letters from previous landlords - fine
Letters from work detailing how long we've been in our jobs, how much we earn, are we contract or permanent - fine I suppose.
Three months bank statements.....

I'm having a problem with that. Why would they want three months bank statements? Is this not an invasion of privacy?

Of course its not, they want to look at your spending patterns to ensure you can pay the rent!

oceanclub

bobbiw wrote: »

Of course its not, they want to look at your spending patterns to ensure you can pay the rent!

How does the reason they want to look at the statements negate the fact is is an invasion of privacy?

P.

bobbiw

oceanclub wrote: »

How does the reason they want to look at the statements negate the fact is is an invasion of privacy?

P.

Because you dont have a right to privacy. If I was renting you my home I would demand first months rent and last upfront followed by the deposit.
I would want references from banks, employers, past landlords and I would also expect you to pay for your own credit check (ony 25 quid)

If you expect to rent someones home you have to do it by the process they define, otherwise you need to find some sucker who will do it your way.

Your attitude is largely the reason that the housing crisis started.

people claiming that they made 100k a year and going with no documentation on loans, then banks wondering why oh why they cant afford 2500 a month on such a salary.

oceanclub

bobbiw wrote: »

Your attitude is largely the reason that the housing crisis started.

There's nothing like a bit of apocalyptic hyperbole to back up a bad argument.

Based on your logic, a landlord should have direct access to all my financial statements, not just a bank staement. After all, all my outgoings affect if I can afford to pay the rent. Perhaps my financial institutions should be authorised to send him duplicates of all my statements - giving a single bank statement only shows my ability to pay at the time of issue after all.

P.

quozl

bobbiw wrote: »

Because you dont have a right to privacy. If I was renting you my home I would demand first months rent and last upfront followed by the deposit..

Yep, you can chose to make whatever demands you want. You'd be shooting yourself in your idiot foot making absurd requests like that in the current climate.

You'd have to undercut the rental value of your property by a sufficient amount to make up for your ridiculous demands.

Genius.

bobbiw

quozl wrote: »

Yep, you can chose to make whatever demands you want. You'd be shooting yourself in your idiot foot making absurd requests like that in the current climate.

You'd have to undercut the rental value of your property by a sufficient amount to make up for your ridiculous demands.

Genius.

I am just saying that is what I would demand, and I am not in your current climate.

And that is actualy standard practice where I live in Santa Monica.

Radiotower

I was asked for the same when moving about 2 months ago (not the same estate agent). Anyway I provided the work references and previous landlord references for the two of us but there was no way i was showing anyone my bank statements. If they insisted on seeing them I was going to blank out all my lodgements, withdrawls and balances with a big black marker. I dont want anyone know what I'm earning, spending and saving.

Maybe they want to see it so they can gauge what price property you could afford to buy in the future. It'd be like a bit of homework done on you...

bobbiw

Radiotower wrote: »

I was asked for the same when moving about 2 months ago (not the same estate agent). Anyway I provided the work references and previous landlord references for the two of us but there was no way i was showing anyone my bank statements. If they insisted on seeing them I was going to blank out all my lodgements, withdrawls and balances with a big black marker. I dont want anyone know what I'm earning, spending and saving.

Maybe they want to see it so they can gauge what price property you could afford to buy in the future. It'd be like a bit of homework done on you...

They do it purely to determine your ability to pay. If you make 4000 a month after tax and have a 1000 a month car loan 1000 a month credit card bill, 500 a month personal loan (figures are crazy but get my point) then they can see that if you only have 1500 a month left then 1000 is your rent a month it is going to be tough with only 500 a month left for food, bills etc.

so you income has very little to do with your ability to pay.

They are giving you possesion of a home that is most likely worth close to half a million euro or so.

they have a right to make sure you are not a bum!

Eglinton

bobbiw wrote: »

They do it purely to determine your ability to pay. If you make 4000 a month after tax and have a 1000 a month car loan 1000 a month credit card bill, 500 a month personal loan (figures are crazy but get my point) then they can see that if you only have 1500 a month left then 1000 is your rent a month it is going to be tough with only 500 a month left for food, bills etc.

so you income has very little to do with your ability to pay.

They are giving you possesion of a home that is most likely worth close to half a million euro or so.

they have a right to make sure you are not a bum!

It's absolutely none of their business what you make or what other outgoings you have. You do not need to furnish bank statements. A work reference and previous landlord reference is the maximum you should/could be asked for. If you're suitably employed and the previous landlord gives a good reference then there is no reason why a landlord/letting agency should turn you down unless they just don't like you! It highly unlikely that you'll try to rent a place you cannot afford anyway. If it turns out the rent can't be paid, well that's life; there are routes of escalation/dispute resolution to be followed.

You seem to think that a landlord/letting agency are doing renters a favour in providing the accomodation (worth a half million - wohoo, big deal). There are thousands of unoccupied properties at present. I'd imagine that most of the landlords can't afford the mortgages on the places and need the tenants to cover it in rent. Maybe the banks should have asked them (the landlords) for better credit criteria for their mortgages!!!

bobbiw

Eglinton wrote: »

It's absolutely none of their business what you make or what other outgoings you have. You do not need to furnish bank statements. A work reference and previous landlord reference is the maximum you should/could be asked for. If you're suitably employed and the previous landlord gives a good reference then there is no reason why a landlord/letting agency should turn you down unless they just don't like you! It highly unlikely that you'll try to rent a place you cannot afford anyway. If it turns out the rent can't be paid, well that's life; there are routes of escalation/dispute resolution to be followed.

You seem to think that a landlord/letting agency are doing renters a favour in providing the accomodation (worth a half million - wohoo, big deal). There are thousands of unoccupied properties at present. I'd imagine that most of the landlords can't afford the mortgages on the places and need the tenants to cover it in rent. Maybe the banks should have asked them (the landlords) for better credit criteria for their mortgages!!!

You are right that the banks should have been stricter in their lending. On every other point you are wrong.

If I had a property to rent I can ask for anything! Anything.

I can ask for 10,000 a week, it doesnt mean I will get it.

So if they ask for bank statements, its their right to. Its their property and in working out if you are a suitable tennant they can ask for anything they like.

they can do a police background check on you if they want, its their property.

Now will that put people off from renting from them, maybe some people, other may not have an issue.

But you dont have the ability to tell someone else under what terms they can rent their property to you.

If I want to sell a car I can demand that people wanting to look at it show up in a business suit.

I hope you get my point.

Just because you want to moan about what other people want doesnt mean you are right at all.

The reverse of your argument is, why should you need to give a reference, employer details etc. Its no ones business.

I honestly think the attitudes displayed on these Irish boards show why Ireland will be the last country to come out of this recession.

Sir Oxman

You are right on one thing - you can ask for anything you want but the majority of folks will tell you to fcek right off and you'll be left with your 'home' 'worth' 500k. Worth?! Ha.

This would apply to you if you even lived in this country, but you don't so I don't know why you are getting stuck in - your market is not this market so advice by you given to the OP is irrelevant.

Data privacy is a concern for a lot of people (in this country), I don't know about where you are.

bobbiw

gambiaman wrote: »

You are right on one thing - you can ask for anything you want but the majority of folks will tell you to fcek right off and you'll be left with your 'home' 'worth' 500k. Worth?! Ha.

This would apply to you if you even lived in this country, but you don't so I don't know why you are getting stuck in - your market is not this market so advice by you given to the OP is irrelevant.

Data privacy is a concern for a lot of people (in this country), I don't know about where you are.

Wow

1) I understand the Irish property market a little bit. (I dont want to tell you why or how)

2) You are right that people can ask for what they want. That was my point, not that they are right or reasonable. You dont have the right to dictate to the owner what they can have if they rent to you.

So if they ask for 2 months statements, you have the right to say feck off, but you dont have the right to say they cannot ask.

3) I know identity theft is a big deal. But are not all Irish deposits guaranteed by the goverment. (again I wouldnt trust them on that)

Victor

bobbiw wrote: »

3) I know identity theft is a big deal. But are not all Irish deposits guaranteed by the goverment. (again I wouldnt trust them on that)

That guarantee only kicks in if the banks go bust, not if someone (else ) defrauds you.

gurramok

bobbiw, you do not seem to realise that we have a Data Protection Act in Ireland.

A letting agency does not have access to a private individual's bank info, it may be the case in the states but the laws are different here.

bmm

One months deposit isn't much security at all really. A month before the tenant moves out he/she phones the landlord and says "can i use my deposit as my last months rent?" . The landlord says "No way!" . The tenant never pays his last months rent and moves out - usually leaving the property looking like a skip and the landlord spends a few weeks cleaning it and replacing all the broken items.

Wouldn't happen in Germany! Nooooooooooo!:D

It is no wonder Agents look for more security...

geem

I don't know if this is legal or some form of discrimination. I don't think it would be legal for a shop to have a dress policy. Night clubs are different as they are clubs.

Legal or not, I wouldn't show bank statements to a landlord. I would say no thanks and find another place, not before asking if they are tax compliant, registered and what is their ber rating.

I would also want to make sure that the landlord is resident here as if they are resident abroad that would make me responsible for deducting tax from them.

As for the comment about the single mother and her peasant boyfriend. I am glad she escaped from paying rent to someone with that attitude.

What amateur landlords seem to forget is that renting is a business. If supermarkets refused to sell food to single mothers and their peasant boyfriends - they wouldn't last long in the market. Landlords with these atttitudes won't last long either - lots of empties out there and more to come.

ZYX

gurramok wrote: »

bobbiw, you do not seem to realise that we have a Data Protection Act in Ireland.

A letting agency does not have access to a private individual's bank info, it may be the case in the states but the laws are different here.

I would never give bank statements to a landlord/agent but, most people who rent sign a contract and pay deposit by cheque. By doing this they are giving landlord/agent their name, address, bank name & address, bank sort code, account number, signature and PPS number. There is enough their to steal an identity without worrying about bank statements.

bobbiw

ZYX wrote: »

I would never give bank statements to a landlord/agent but, most people who rent sign a contract and pay deposit by cheque. By doing this they are giving landlord/agent their name, address, bank name & address, bank sort code, account number, signature and PPS number. There is enough their to steal an identity without worrying about bank statements.

Very very good point. That should quiet them all.

ZYX

bobbiw wrote: »

Very very good point. That should quiet them all.

That being said. I would never, ever, ever, under any circumstances give bank statements to a landlord. Absolutely no way. I think you would be an idiot to give that type of info to a total stranger. Why on earth would you want them to know how you spend your money.

martian1980

bobbiw wrote: »

That should quiet them all.

What do you mean by that?

Ste.phen

He means he's spotted a circumstance under which the landlord could start an identify theft scam without needing your bank statements, the implication of which is that people should stop arguing about it.

Not that I'd give over my bank statements either, mind.

Arathorn

I would NEVER give out my bank details to a landlord, I wouldn't have done it when it was difficult to find a place and definately not now.

martian1980

Ste.phen wrote: »

He means he's spotted a circumstance under which the landlord could start an identify theft scam without needing your bank statements, the implication of which is that people should stop arguing about it.

Not that I'd give over my bank statements either, mind.

no, I understand that bit fine. When s/he said "that should quiet them all", I was wondering what s/he means.

CorkLady1983

no right to ask for bank statement, rent directly. I'm renting in spencer dock from a really decent guy, he has a few nices places around . PM me if you need more details...

mambo

On the subject or references, etc. some agents want work & landlord references before they'll even let you see the property!

JACOB WALSH ESTATES

PLEASE MAKE NOTE OF THE FOLLOWING IMPORTANT DETAILS BEFORE MAKING AN APPOINTMENT TO SEE THIS PROPERTY.
(1) Please fax your work reference and Landlord reference to the office on 01-8727779, clearly stating your name contact number and the property you wish to view

http://www.rent.ie/houses-to-let/109-Parnell-Street-Apartments-Dublin-1/762664/

oceanclub

mambo wrote: »

On the subject or references, etc. some agents want work & landlord references before they'll even let you see the property!

Suggested reply:

Dear Jacob Walsh,

Cop on; there's a glut of 16,000 apartments in the city.

Sincerely,

P.

EDIT: This bit is also funny:

"Rents are not open to negotiation, unless specifically indicated on the advertisement."

I reckon he stills thinks there might be a soft landing.