shock horror - after hours broke this story over a year ago

stevoman

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/fraudsters-flew-in-to-claim-dole-payments-1801725.html

NON-national dole cheats defrauded millions of euro from the Exchequer by flying into the country once a month to sign on.

New figures obtained by the Irish Independent show thousands of foreign benefit claimants were investigated by the Department of Social and Family Affairs between October 2007 and February last year.

In a first trawl of suspected benefit fraudsters, 776 non-national cases were examined, of which 76 were found to be permanently living outside of the State.

Officials were so alarmed they ordered residency checks on a further 3,665 non-nationals, and found that 403 (11pc) of these were living outside the State and flying in once a month to collect their benefit.

The vast majority of the claimants were from Eastern European countries.

Both investigations between them yielded savings of more than €4m -- or up to €10,000 per dole cheat -- for the cash-strapped Exchequer.

The fraudsters had been getting the cash wired to bank accounts in Ireland, while flying here once a month to sign on at their local dole office.

Even with the deduction of flight costs, each claimant took home nearly €1,000 a month.

The revelation raised questions about the full extent of the fraud, which has still to be fully quantified.

Urgent nationwide residency checks were introduced for all non-Irish claimants on jobseekers' benefits after evidence of the widespread fraud became apparent last year.

The revelation comes as gloomy new figures confirmed that record numbers are now signing on the Live Register.

The Central Statistics Office confirmed almost 200,000 people lost their jobs last year.

Unemployment has soared to a 13-year-high, with a total of 413,500 signing on the dole.

This is a 92pc rise on last year, and more than two-and-a-half times the number of jobless compared to the same period in 2007.

Taoiseach Brian Cowen yesterday gave his strongest hint yet that social welfare payments will be hit as the Government attempts to claw back up to €5bn in savings identified by An Bord Snip Nua, the state agency tasked with balancing the Budget books.

"We need €72m a week to maintain the current level of services.

"The Government is not in a position ad infinitum, or over the short term, to maintain that level of deficit," Mr Cowen said.

"Look at what people in employment must face in terms of reduced pay, increased levies or taxes, or the various policies we have had to implement," he added.

The Government is also set to continue its clampdown on benefit fraud and 'welfare tourism' as it desperately seeks to cut the soaring welfare bill.

The anti-fraud drive involved a home visit to check residency within six weeks of the first signing on day. These were followed up by further visits at between six and eight months and at one year.

The frequency of the visits was varied so as not to establish a predictable pattern.

Checks

"In response to the findings of these initial checks, it was considered that a more targeted control approach to residency was required," a spokesman for Social Welfare Minister Mary Hanafin told the Irish Independent.

In view of the scale of scamming, the department decided from last July 2008 not to make electronic fund-transfer payments method available to new claimants.

They are now paid weekly to a post office of the claimant's choice.

This means that claimants must attend the post office weekly to collect their payment, and bring a photo ID, such as a passport, when signing for receipt of the cash.

From March this year, stricter identity checks were introduced in post offices for people collecting social welfare payments.

Meanwhile, border regions have put an increased emphasis on controls on claims from applicants with a previous address in Northern Ireland.

The frequency of issue of mail shots to validate continued entitlement to child benefit has also increased to one every three months for all non-nationals, the department said.

- Senan Moloney

thelordofcheese

to be fair, AH's version of it had it as some kind of pandemic.

I guess if you swing often enough, you'll eventually hit something.

Biggins

Gee we could have told that paper years ago!
Talk about late breaking news ...very late! :rolleyes:

ShooterSF

I hate lazy journalism,

Even with the deduction of flight costs, each claimant took home nearly €1,000 a month.

The dole is about €204 a week. 4 weeks = €816 - Flights = "nearly €1000"?

Pop's Diner

^^ Those journo's all fly first-class tho.

amacachi

ShooterSF wrote: »

I hate lazy journalism,



The dole is about €204 a week. 4 weeks = €816 - Flights = "nearly €1000"?

Kids + Dependents and other allowances.

Though the generalisation is somewhat silly.

Wertz

ShooterSF wrote: »

I hate lazy journalism,



The dole is about €204 a week. 4 weeks = €816 - Flights = "nearly €1000"?

Maybe they were claiming for dependents?
Maybe they were picking up the children's allowance when they were here?
Or maybe the indo just grabbed a nice round figure out of thin air and ran with it...

AnonoBoy

Wertz wrote: »

Maybe they were claiming for dependents?
Maybe they were picking up the children's allowance when they were here?
Or maybe the indo just grabbed a nice round figure out of thin air and ran with it...

Bingo.

The Indo is such a class act. :rolleyes:

Wertz

Anyway, we made our own bed on this one...we were far too trusting of the goodwill and honesty of every non-Irish national comign to this country to play fair. I can't say I blame them....it's free money...a lot of free money. It's only now that people are feeling the pinch and everyone's looking like getting cutback in some way or other that we suddenly start to see the bigger picture and realise that perhaps not all these guests in our country were here for the benefit of anyone but themselves. I said this years ago, and the usual racist stuff was the general forthcoming reply...

That aside, we have a much larger problem with f*cking nordies coming down here and signing on...I'd be fairly certain that that figure would probably rival or perhaps dwarf the fraud commited by those from accession states/E Europe .

The sad thing is that the DSFA probably don't have the proper resources with which to investigate and clamp down on the widescale abuses by both domestic and foreign claimants, since they can barely keep up with just opening and processing claims...there's a few thousand new jobs for people right there; front line investigators for the social.

ShooterSF

One problem I find when trying to discuss this aside from the R word that some people like to throw around when were not all in a big love pile is peoples inability to see two wrongs. If I mention this to someone who is in love with the free movement idea they complain that there are plenty of Irish nationals scamming the system as if that excuses non-nationals. They can't seem to see the point that both need to be stopped.

amacachi

Wertz wrote: »

That aside, we have a much larger problem with f*cking nordies coming down here and signing on...I'd be fairly certain that that figure would probably rival or perhaps dwarf the fraud commited by those from accession states/E Europe .

Exactly what I was thinking, there's a huge amount of them coming down, but then again they're citizens and it's easy to get an address when you only live 20 miles from where you claim you do, so it'll hard enough to catch them out.

connundrum

I'd love if the article had started with:

I'm not racist but...

The_Conductor

Wertz wrote: »

I can't say I blame them....it's free money...a lot of free money.

Thats a large amount of the problem- people refuse to acknowledge that social welfare payments are not 'free-money'- the government has to borrow this money- and the taxpayer is paying 6% interest on it. There is nothing whatsover free about it.......

amacachi

ShooterSF wrote: »

One problem I find when trying to discuss this aside from the R word that some people like to throw around when were not all in a big love pile is peoples inability to see two wrongs. If I mention this to someone who is in love with the free movement idea they complain that there are plenty of Irish nationals scamming the system as if that excuses non-nationals. They can't seem to see the point that both need to be stopped.

Nah we do, but what annoys me is that the number of people mentioned in the article is fairly small for what's meant to be a story of national importance.

amacachi

smccarrick wrote: »

Thats a large amount of the problem- people refuse to acknowledge that social welfare payments are not 'free-money'- the government has to borrow this money- and the taxpayer is paying 6% interest on it. There is nothing whatsover free about it.......

I think as far as foreigners are concerned it is free money, what do they care about the Irish government's finances?

The_Conductor

amacachi wrote: »

I think as far as foreigners are concerned it is free money, what do they care about the Irish government's finances?

They might not care- but every law abiding tax paying citizen should. At the end of the day- its you and me who will have to fork out to cover these criminals.

Wertz

smccarrick wrote: »

Thats a large amount of the problem- people refuse to acknowledge that social welfare payments are not 'free-money'- the government has to borrow this money- and the taxpayer is paying 6% interest on it. There is nothing whatsover free about it.......

I know that, you know that...but people who arrive here with no loyalty or affilation to the nation, and get more money for not working than they could for doing hard graft at home either don't know or don't care.
Ergo, free money. It's not like they'll have to pay for it...it's the collective of muggins like those of us who were born, grew up and will remain here that will...

[edit] Oh and mena of course.

Mena

amacachi wrote: »

I think as far as foreigners are concerned it is free money, what do they care about the Irish government's finances?

What do I care?

It's my tax money too. I have to use the health services, the roads and every other public service as well.

The cuts affect me directly too. :mad:

Damn right I care about the Irish government's finances!

amacachi

smccarrick wrote: »

They might not care- but every law abiding tax paying citizen should. At the end of the day- its you and me who will have to fork out to cover these criminals.

Aye, and if I knew any of them doing it I'd report them. I don't think Wertz was excusing it, just that ya can't blame em for tryin.

amacachi

Mena wrote: »

What do I care?

It's my tax money too. I have to use the health services, the roads and every other public service as well.

The cuts affect me directly too. :mad:

Damn right I care about the Irish government's finances!

Christ, I meant foreigners as in people not resident here and not planning to be anyime soon.

Pace2008

Once they leave our swans alone I'm not too bothered.

Bandit12

Another example of our wonderful open immigration policies.:rolleyes:

Victor_M

amacachi wrote: »

Nah we do, but what annoys me is that the number of people mentioned in the article is fairly small for what's meant to be a story of national importance.

I wouldn't call 11% of the tested claimants small.

It's not empirical but if 11% of all claims were completely fraudulent or in some way fraudulent (single parents claiming rent allowance whilst having partners living with them being one of the huge ones) , clamping down would save a huge amount of money.

If they rewarded people who reported this sort of fraud with a % commission on savings you'd find a lot of it would disappear very quickly.

amacachi

Victor_M wrote: »

I wouldn't call 11% of the tested claimants small.

It's not empirical but if 11% of all claims were completely fraudulent or in some way fraudulent (single parents claiming rent allowance whilst having partners living with them being one of the huge ones) , clamping down would save a huge amount of money.

If they rewarded people who reported this sort of fraud with a % commission on savings you'd find a lot of it would disappear very quickly.

I'd take a guess that the ones investigated were more suspect that the other ones.

Mena

Bandit12 wrote: »

Another example of our wonderful open immigration policies.:rolleyes:

You mean our wonderful membership of the EU surely?

Zzippy

Pace2008 wrote: »

Once they leave our swans alone I'm not too bothered.

Don't forget our wimmins!

Hagar

Anyone have a link to the original thread?

amacachi

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055398833

twanda

...so newcomers to the dole now have to sign on every week, instead of every month? That won't stop the issue at hand IMO, it just means the fraudsters now fly in every week instead of every month - and with cheap Ryanair flights, I wouldn't think that is a problem. They need to find another approach to tackle this issue. Pity the airlines won't release passenger list information...

amacachi

twanda wrote: »

...so newcomers to the dole now have to sign on every week, instead of every month? That won't stop the issue at hand IMO, it just means the fraudsters now fly in every week instead of every month - and with cheap Ryanair flights, I wouldn't think that is a problem. They need to find another approach to tackle this issue. Pity the airlines won't release passenger list information...

It's not technically signing on, but yes, ya have to turn up for something in person once a week now.

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

Abi

stevoman wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/fraudsters-flew-in-to-claim-dole-payments-1801725.html

Fucking ****.

Professey Chin

Iolar wrote: »

mmmmmmmmmm wheres the rabble brigade when ya need em?

RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE!!!!!
rabble rabble??
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE!!!!!!!!!!