What would you do?

LegacyUser

Hi All,

If you were in work and a junior person called you some really bad names (I mean really really bad) on the office floor in front of the whole office what would you do? Would you demand they be dismissed? Forgive and forget and work with them again (on the same team)?

If you were forced to work with them again would you leave your job (when as soon as you can find a new one)?

Please advise what you would do?

wasper

Unregistered wrote: »

Hi All,

If you were in work and a junior person called you some really bad names (I mean really really bad) on the office floor in front of the whole office what would you do? Would you demand they be dismissed? Forgive and forget and work with them again (on the same team)?

If you were forced to work with them again would you leave your job (when as soon as you can find a new one)?

Please advise what you would do?

There are many witnesses to the incident. Report it to HR & they should deal with according to company policy.
But when you say junior, does the person work under your supervision or your team?

Unregistered

Unregistered wrote: »

Hi All,

If you were in work and a junior person called you some really bad names (I mean really really bad) on the office floor in front of the whole office what would you do? Would you demand they be dismissed? Forgive and forget and work with them again (on the same team)?

If you were forced to work with them again would you leave your job (when as soon as you can find a new one)?

Please advise what you would do?

I would make a formal complaint about this unacceptable behaviour and I would not let this get to the point where I'd consider leaving my job in order to avoid having to deal with this person.

I would only forgive and forget (with or without a formal complaint) if the person apologised sincerely and explained why they had acted this way.

And if I didn't do these things I wouldn't be surprised if it happened again

Most companies have a complaints/disciplinary process, contact your Human Resources department and make an official complaint. This won't necessarily lead to the person being dismissed, which seems to be a concern for you, but it will (hopefully) make for a more comfortable working environment for you.

Good luck.

messygirl

i would agree with making the complaint but i would also try and pull her aside first, privately, say if you have a problem with me then speak to me in private, and i will under no circumstances tolerate that kind of behaviour, ask her if she has a problem with your work/management capabilities/or you personally, and tell her you will be reporting this to the boss (if there is no hr manager) because what she did constituted bullying. and tell her that you would like an explanation for her outburst!!!

wexford202

Nobody should ever speak to somebody badly in the workplace no matter what position is held within the Company.

You will rarely see anyone of a high position do that as they would most likely lose their job.

Depending on your posiition you could request that this person apologise and see if it is possible to have them transferred into a different section.

That kind of behaviour can warrant immediate dismissal. I would make this person aware of that fact and I would certainly request that the formally apologise for this behaviour and put them on a final warning to alst approx 6 months.

Chances are this could have happened before and have been reported to management. You may not even know this as your own bosses would have to keep that kind of info under wraps.

Das Kitty

I'm having a similar problem, but it's a bit more subtle. Any emails I get from her I forward to our boss (after I informed him of my issues) and I blind CC him on anything I send to her and take notes of what is said in person / phonecalls.

If it was something as blatant as this I'd speak to my own boss first and get support for taking it to HR.

LegacyUser

OP HERE

Ok sorry guys I didn't give too much info there as I dont want anyone to know who I am!

Yes this person works under me. I am their supervisor.

There were many witnesses (at least 5 I know of - possibly more). It was a very agressive attack and really really bad language. HR were involved and the person is out at the moment. To be honest I think they will let this person return to work with a slap on the wrist. So I will still have to work very closely with them - the thought of this makes me sick! HR do not seem to be taking this very seriously even though I told them very strongly how I felt about it. I'm not easily scared but this frightened the crap out of me. I am no pushover but I am very fair all my team members have told me this and even gave me an award for fairness so it was not provoked at all.

This is not the first time this has happened from this person. Something similar happened on two other occasions (not with me).

Does this make it any clearer?? What would you guys do??

Das Kitty

Were the two other cases brought to HR?

What I would suggest would be to ask HR if the person is returning that they be given to another supervisor as you do not want to work with them as you found this to be a frightening experience. I'd imagine they'd oblige.

You can't demand that someone be fired really, but if every thing they do that is out of order is documented and reported it won't be long before the person is fired.

LegacyUser

OP AGAIN,

The other two occasions were documented and HR and Management know what this person is like. They told me they were not suprised when I told them what happened. I have been told that if this person comes back they will not be moved to another team they will have to come back and work with me (they were moved due to the last two incidents - not many more teams they could be put into to be honest).

I guess I am not demanding the be fired I just cannot believe they have not been. 3rd time and all. They refused to apologise to me and still do. I would have to give this person work to do, check their work, review them at the end of the year. I would have a say in their promotion, bonus, pay rise etc and I don't think I could do this and be fair after what happened?? I know I should be able to but I really don't know if I could. I guess I am asking if they were not fired would you guys look for a new job as I think this will be my only option for my own sanity?

Am I right to be angry that the HR department are not treating this as a big deal? Am I justified in saying I don't want to work with this person again? Am I over- reacting?

wasper

Unregistered wrote: »

OP HERE

Ok sorry guys I didn't give too much info there as I dont want anyone to know who I am!

Yes this person works under me. I am their supervisor.

There were many witnesses (at least 5 I know of - possibly more). It was a very agressive attack and really really bad language. HR were involved and the person is out at the moment. To be honest I think they will let this person return to work with a slap on the wrist. So I will still have to work very closely with them - the thought of this makes me sick! HR do not seem to be taking this very seriously even though I told them very strongly how I felt about it. I'm not easily scared but this frightened the crap out of me. I am no pushover but I am very fair all my team members have told me this and even gave me an award for fairness so it was not provoked at all.

This is not the first time this has happened from this person. Something similar happened on two other occasions (not with me).

Does this make it any clearer?? What would you guys do??

From what you are saying, this person has a patern with bad behaviour. Remove this person from your team. Let HR do what they are getting paid for. Either they issue a final written warning as this a repeated incident. Or you take your case to a hire level to get satisfaction.

ManOfMystery

You're not over-reacting. It sounds like your HR people are totally incompetent and unwilling to deal with the issue. I agree with everyone else above, behaviour of this sort is NOT tolerable in the workplace and people have been fired for less. I wouldn't stand for it in my office even from a superior, never mind someone in a lower role than me.

LegacyUser

I really feel for you. You are not over reacting. You must realise something though; HR are for the good of the company, not the good of the employee (this is the basic difference between what used to be Personnel departments, and now Human Resources). You are perfectly within your rights to insist that proper procedures are followed with this person, i.e verbal, written warning, final written warning, and out the door. If HR had followed these basics from the initial reporting of incidents, then this person would be on the verge of being dismissed. It is virtually impossible to dismiss someone without following due process. If you still find that HR are unwilling to do anything, and you feel your position is untenable, you should contact the National Employment Rights Authority (NERA) who will give you good advice on how to proceed. If you feel HR aren't backing you up, you have to go to your own superior, and if they're no good, go to their superior. You can't take this lying down. The rest of your team will lose respect for you, and think they can treat you as this person has. It's an horrible situation. Good luck with this.

Das Kitty

Well if they're not going to move the person, demand that you are moved or you'll make a complaint yourself.

Make a lot of noise about it.

carlybabe1

Unregistered wrote: »

OP HERE

Ok sorry guys I didn't give too much info there as I dont want anyone to know who I am!

Yes this person works under me. I am their supervisor.

There were many witnesses (at least 5 I know of - possibly more). It was a very agressive attack and really really bad language. HR were involved and the person is out at the moment. To be honest I think they will let this person return to work with a slap on the wrist. So I will still have to work very closely with them - the thought of this makes me sick! HR do not seem to be taking this very seriously even though I told them very strongly how I felt about it. I'm not easily scared but this frightened the crap out of me. I am no pushover but I am very fair all my team members have told me this and even gave me an award for fairness so it was not provoked at all.

This is not the first time this has happened from this person. Something similar happened on two other occasions (not with me).

Does this make it any clearer?? What would you guys do??

If you feel that HR are fobbing you off, then type a letter (keep a copy) telling them that you feel they are not acting effectively, and if you are not satisfied with the results you will take it, and the company to the labour courts. The law is very strict and very clear on workplace bullying, and intimidation is not tolerated in the workplace from anyone in ANY position. Tell them your next step will be to visit your solicitor. Evidently, from what you've posted this sack of sh*t has done this before and gotten away with it, so HR are obviously not willing to confront them

Unregistered

Unregistered wrote: »

OP AGAIN,

The other two occasions were documented and HR and Management know what this person is like. They told me they were not suprised when I told them what happened. I have been told that if this person comes back they will not be moved to another team they will have to come back and work with me (they were moved due to the last two incidents - not many more teams they could be put into to be honest).

I guess I am not demanding the be fired I just cannot believe they have not been. 3rd time and all. They refused to apologise to me and still do. I would have to give this person work to do, check their work, review them at the end of the year. I would have a say in their promotion, bonus, pay rise etc and I don't think I could do this and be fair after what happened?? I know I should be able to but I really don't know if I could. I guess I am asking if they were not fired would you guys look for a new job as I think this will be my only option for my own sanity?

Am I right to be angry that the HR department are not treating this as a big deal? Am I justified in saying I don't want to work with this person again? Am I over- reacting?

Wow, sounds like you have a really crap HR department and you are not over-reacting.

Having said that, you have a say in whether this person gets a promotion, bonus or pay rise and they still abuse you. And you're wondering if it would be fair to let their behaviour in work affect your judgement in this?

To be perfectly honest, I don't see how this person will change if neither their supervisor nor their HR department is willing to show them any consequences of their behaviour.

LegacyUser

OP here again,

Thanks all - you really are helping. It's good to get other peoples opinions as I am so deep in this I don't know if I am being objective enough.

I have given out very strongly to HR and my Manager to no avail at the moment. This person is on "sick" leave at the moment and I think once the sick leave is over they will allow the person to come back. I have told them I would expect an apology and I did ask for one when it happened but the person refused. HR just said they would have expected the person to apologise and it was not good that they did not but they have not insisted on me getting one. I am angry that HR did not demand this for me.

I am not worried about not giving this person a promotion etc they totally do not deserve it and I would never sign off on it but I am more worried everything I do or say will be collected and used against me if the person returns and I know this person will say I waas holding a grudge and that is why they did not get promotion etc. I know if I do nothing wrong they cannot use it against me but it is an awful lot of pressure having to watch every single thing I say or do.

I am also covering this person work while they are "sick" they have said they will sue if HR stop their pay. I think HR are afraid of them. I think once they are "better" they will be told they can come back to work.

I feel like this happened to me and I am the one who is being punished by covering for this person and having the worry of the person returning to work plus the embarassement of what happened in front of other colleagues of mine. I feel totally underminde and I feel like I am making a stand on my own and the company is backing this person. This might be me over - reacting but it really is how I feel about it.

I don't know if I could work for a company like this. I know I should be greatful I have a job and there are people far worse off then me at the mooment but this is really having an impact on me. I dont want to come to work anymore, I cannot concentrate fully, I feel victimised and very alone in this company. I broke down the other night as it all just totally got to me (this is not like me at all). I'm wondering should I just cut my losses find a new job and go for the sake of my sanity.

Das Kitty

Is there any way your manager would back you on this? The way I see it you were bullied by this person and now you are being bullied by HR. Take note of everything HR have said to you as well.

I think they either need to move the person or move you. Be strong on this point. I would also talk to someone who knows labour law (even a lecturer) to see if you have any legal recourse for making them do something.

carlybabe1

Hi OP, very sorry to hear how this situation is affecting you, but I urge you to stick to your guns. HR obviously feel that of the two of you, you are the easiest to fob off, cause the bully is adept at making more noise than you. I wouldnt bother talking anymore. If this person has threatened to sue then you wont get any comeback unless you are prepared to go one further. I'd contact a solicitor for advice, and Id let them know that I was about to. Something along the lines of "I need thursday afternoon off, I've an appointment with a solicitor about the bullying thats going on here". I guarantee you would see results

KittyeeTrix

Hi OP, really sorry to hear what you have been going through with your work situation..
My sister works in HR and I will ask her advice over the next day or two regarding your situation and see what she says..
Will get back to you:)

LegacyUser

Hi OP. I am assuming that you must manage this person. You need to determine how you will do this when they return. That includes how you wil manage discipline and bullying.Having decided on the best way to proceed, you need to discuss with your HR department your plans ( and modify them if HR have any reasonable suggestings). You also need to put HR on notice that you will be calling on their, and your own mangers, support as needed.

I would suggest that you arrange a meeting with the individual concerned on their return and set out the behaviour you expect. Give them notice and allow them to bring a representative ( union or work colleague ) if they wish.

Review, with the person concerned, progress on a wekly basis until you are happy things have returned to normal.( agasin allow them a representative if they wish).

You don't say if the sickness is related to the incident. If it is then do not sign off on the sick leave. If HR wish to do so let them take responsibility for it. Paying sick benefit to someone because they went off after bullying is undefendable.
good luck

LegacyUser

All thanks for all your advice. The person is off on sick leave based on the bullying (I personally think trying to justify it - "emotional leave" or something like that they call it) To be honest this is p***ing me off majorly as I am covering for them and I have not had a lunch break etc since it happened.

Fluffyorganic1 any HR advice or opinions would be great. I think my HR department are not the best baised on this but I could be wrong.

In my eyes there was only one option and that was instant dismissal (the language and behaviour was that bad I promise you). I have never been called those things in my life. I was also cornered when this happened. I could not get away! Very intimidating and there was the fear of being struck by this person. I have spoken to friends in other companies about this and they cannot believe this person has not been fired.

If this person were to come back I will certainly be sitting them down and letting them know what will be expected of them and what will not be tolerated. I would also be ensuring HR and my mananger had taken steps to ensure this person does not approach me in that manner again. To be honest if the person was allowed back and ever did anything like this to be again I would be seeking legal advice for sure.

Thanks again for all the advice - I'm glad to hear you all think I am not over-reacting and that I am justified in being upset by this. It helps

Phlann

You mentioned that violence was at least hinted at in this person's behaviour... Out of curiosity - and for those who know more about this than me - would the company be held responsible if, despite his history, he was allowed to return and if he were to genuinely turn violent at some point in the future?

Perhaps the promise of legal action against your employer should such a situation arise might be sufficient to get them to pay attention to your concerns... or would that be too full on?

twanda

Your HR dept. sounds similar to one in a company where I worked. The amount of people there with nasty attitudes who could walk all over HR was incredible. It was many peoples opinion that HR were actually afraid to dismiss these *ssholes because they knew right well these are the type of people that do not take dismissal easily and end up going legal and causing huge headaches for the company. I know - it's totally screwed up. You'd think they'd be on the nice persons side but sadly not the case in my experience.

I agree totally with the last posters suggestion on legal action. You may need to rock the boat a bit on your side, to make them see you will not take things lying down. Also, if this happened to me, and I was genuinely worried and stressed over this then I would head straight to my GP, get myself a sick cert, then call up HR and tell them I am not coming to work for a few days on advice of my GP, due to stress caused by the incident with this person.. Might make them pull up their socks and actually do something in your favour.

LegacyUser

OP Here,

I was thinking of getting myself signed off due to the stress of this situation but I would be afraid this would go down on my record and be held against me when it comes time for pay rise/ promotion etc. I would hate something like this to be held against me. If this person is coming back to work with me I will certainly consider getting signed off for a bit. I don't know where I stand legally on this but I might speak to my solicitor and see what they can advise.

messygirl

cant you legally dismiss someone after a verbal and then a written warning and then a third warning? Get the HR to get off their behinds and do their job! Give her/him at least a verbal warning, one strike for her attitude to you. You are entitled to a safe workplace and you do not feel safe! if you feel obliged to quit because of the circumstances that is unfair dismissal (being forced/bullied out) and you can sue too so get on to a union/the website for workers rights and get advice (for free before going to the lawyers) and make up a file and present it to the hr department.

Do your work force, take your lunch and if you havent finished by the end of the day walk out. if they give out to you tell them you dont have the resources because someone is on "sickleave". You might not get a promotion if they see you are willing to put up with less tha you deserve, they could use you!