court question

pbody1985

hey all ,

basically in january this year , i stopped at a checkpoint , i had no tax and the gaurd fined me and asked me to produce my liscence at the station and copy of my insurance cert .. which i did that evening , now i had my lisence and lthe agreementletter from axa saying i was now insured with them as i had not got my cert to put in my car window yet .. and i was fighting with them for it since the start of janurary .. as they were saying that they never got my copy of my liscence sent which i did send .. i also told the guard this at the time ... anyway axa then cancelled my policy on the 1st of feb and never sent my cert to me .. and i then got insured with quinn direct instead .. few months later i got a summons for court next week saying i was driving a motor with no insurance and no policy .. but i was as i was insured till midnight the 1st of feb anyway and got stopped on the 28 of january .!!! what will happen in this case ?? or what will happen if i dont turn up as i cant get off work ??/

any advise ??

Pauline

Jo King

You need to get a solicitor. It is extremely serious. You are at risk of conviction and are facing a possible ban from driving, a fine, and or imprisonment. If you are convicted you will have problems into the future in getting cover.

pbody1985

imprisonment ??? i dont get it .. i was insured at the time not as if i was driving around without any at all ...

Jo King

pbody1985 wrote: »

imprisonment ??? i dont get it .. i was insured at the time not as if i was driving around without any at all ...

How are you going to establish that
a. if you are not there and
b. without legal asistance?

If you have a cert of insurance for the period in question bring it to the prosecuting guard at the garda station in advance of the hearing. That may be of help.

Our man in Havana

Tricky one. Can the OP prove that AXA were covering his risk at the material time?

pbody1985

yes , i have the letter from axa stating that i was then insured from december as it was towards the end of december when i called to take out insurance with then .. then sent me out all the details .. and paperwork and said that they would then send the insurence cert for the window once i send them copy of my lisence and passport , which i in turn did in janurary ... but they kept telling me they didnt get and they kept sending me a letter saying they would cancel the policy at midnight 1st of february .. if i didnt send it ... so i was under cover with at the time .. i ws stopped on the 28th of january so i will still under cover with them at the time ..

partyguinness

Bond-007 wrote: »

Tricky one. Can the OP prove that AXA were covering his risk at the material time?

Judges have a special way of getting an insurance company to produce documents when they are not co operating with the insured..

They advise the Defence solicitor to issue a Sub Poena against the Managing Director of the insurance company to turn up in the Court the next month....

This usually gets the required information from the insurance company ASAP...:D

Jo King

partyguinness wrote: »

Judges have a special way of getting an insurance company to produce documents when they are not co operating with the insured..

They advise the Defence solicitor to issue a Sub Poena against the Managing Director of the insurance company to turn up in the Court the next month....

This usually gets the required information from the insurance company ASAP...:D

That is assumimg someone turns up and offers some reason for doing so!

partyguinness

Jo King wrote: »

That is assumimg someone turns up and offers some reason for doing so!

Not quiet sure what you mean exactly..

USER X

Dont let the situation snowball, you need to show up on the date you have been summonsed! If you dont turn up, the judge will most likely make a judgement in your absence based on the information the Garda presents (One side of the story). As previously metioned the Judge can give you a fine, endorse your licence (I think its 6 penalty points at the moment for driving without insurance), ban you from driving and/or in extreme cases imprision you. You dont need to worry about imprisionment, I dont get the feeling you have previous convictions and its not like you killed someone when you were driving "Uninsured".

Dont take the situation lightly, this has serious consequences if you dont handle it properly. I had a policy that was 3 days out when I was driving a bike when I was 16 and I woman wholloped me off the bike. The renewal papers hadnt reached the insurance company so they told me to take a running jump. My licence was endorsed and I spent 6 years off the road (Very Painful!). I tried to get insurance on a 1.6L Passat when I was 21 and the quote was €12,500, Hib*rnian said they wouldnt insure me until 10 years after the endorsement had finished......

Okay, so now that you know what happens if you dont do anything about it, whats the bottom line? Things sound a little fishy to me because generally if you have an insurance cert which you claim to have, then you will have a disc because its attached to the bottom of the insurance cert. If you dont feel confident handling this yourself and want to make sure it gets sorted....Call a solicitor. They will contact the insurance company and get details of any policy you may have had, they can appear in the court for you and they can contact the Gardai to get them to back off (Withdraw the prosecution).

Jo King

partyguinness wrote: »

Not quiet sure what you mean exactly..

The o/p was wondering what would happen if she does not show up. Judges do not suggest bringing insurance company executives to court unless it is explained that there is some difficulty with documentation. If an accused is not present in court the most likely thing is a conviction in their absence. In the alternative the judge may issue a bench warrant for the arrest of the accused, who will then be arrested and brought to court. In motor insurances cases, once the garda gives evidence of making a lawful demand for the production of the insurance cert, it is up to the accused person to prove insurance. I

partyguinness

Oh of course, I am assuming that the OP and solicitor shows up.

The main issue here is the insurance.

Jo King

partyguinness wrote: »

Oh of course, I am assuming that the OP and solicitor shows up.

The main issue here is the insurance.

I was responding to the o/ps post and making no assumptions. The main issue is proof of insurance rather than insurance itself. The o/p does not have nor ever had a certificate of insurance to cover the driving. This puts her in difficulty.

partyguinness

Jo King wrote: »

I was responding to the o/ps post and making no assumptions. The main issue is proof of insurance rather than insurance itself. The o/p does not have nor ever had a certificate of insurance to cover the driving. This puts her in difficulty.

Yes the lack of insurance and no certificate displayed are 2 seperate offences.

If she was covered then the DJ will more than likely just tell her off and will strike out the non display.

If she was not covered then she will get banned with the non display taken into consideration but the Judge does has discretion in exceptional circumstances not to ban.

Jo King

partyguinness wrote: »

Yes the lack of insurance and no certificate displayed are 2 seperate offences.

If she was covered then the DJ will more than likely just tell her off and will strike out the non display.

If she was not covered then she will get banned with the non display taken into consideration but the Judge does has discretion in exceptional circumstances not to ban.

It is the disk which is displayed in the window not the certificate. There is the non possession of the certificate and the failure to produce it.
Potentially four seperate offences.
The o/p seems to be guilty of three of them but she will probably have them struck out if she can get her act together.

Our man in Havana

Would these letters from the insurance company convince a judge the OP was covered?

Jo King

It would be usual for the judge to asak the garda if he was happy that the Defendant was insured at the time of driving. There is a presumption of no insurance until a certificate is produced. Some judges get annoyed when people turn up in court with a story about the insurance company. They see no reason why people do not get their paperwork in order and meet the guard before the case is heard in court. The guard will then apply to strike out all charges.
They sometimes convict on the minor charges, non display etc if people waste a lot of time with the story.

Our man in Havana

It does seem quite common that an insurance company will say someone is on cover and as in the OP's case never send a RTA cert.

I take it without a RTA cert the judge would be entitled to convict?

Jo King

Bond-007 wrote: »

I take it without a RTA cert the judge would be entitled to convict?

The cert is supposed to be issued within 10 days. In theory the car should not be driven until it is received.

The judge can convict in the absence of a cert. Some will give time to fetch paperwork, some will convict and fix recognizances for an appeal and let the defendant produce his paperwork to the appeal court.

manchild

Need some advice on court costs. Court costs were awarded against me. They seem to me excessive.

They are gone for Taxing. What exactly is this ?

Can i appeal these costs. they are for the oppisitions solicitor and engineeres fees etc.

Court fine was 2,5 K

Their costs were 28 K one day in Circuit court Seems savage high. i am being screwed.

Need advise.

Jo King

manchild wrote: »

Need some advice on court costs. Court costs were awarded against me. They seem to me excessive.

They are gone for Taxing. What exactly is this ?

Need advise.

Taxing is a process whereby the costs claimed are adjudicated upon. In the Circuit Court it will be by the County Registrar.

When you say there was a court fine , were you criminally prosecuted for a regulatory breach?

manchild

No
It was in relation to a boundry wall dispute. Neighbour claimed it was interfered with during a building installation. I felt hard done- by as I had verbal permission for my builder to remove some stones from it to assist his build. Such is civil court. Didnt want to appeal more costs etc.

Still didnt expect such costs. Feel i am being victimised because I lost case

want to know how tyo minimise the cost damage ?

appreciate advice

Will try and recover from my house insurance but I didnt get a great responce from them.

Jo King

manchild wrote: »

No
It was in relation to a boundry wall dispute. Neighbour claimed it was interfered with during a building installation. I felt hard done- by as I had verbal permission for my builder to remove some stones from it to assist his build. Such is civil court. Didnt want to appeal more costs etc.

Still didnt expect such costs. Feel i am being victimised because I lost case

want to know how tyo minimise the cost damage ?

appreciate advice

Will try and recover from my house insurance but I didnt get a great responce from them.

You should have told your house insurance when proceedings were served on you. They would have defended the case if the were willing to give an indemnity. All you can do is have the costs taxed and make sure you go to the hearing on taxation.

pbody1985

ok well well went to court ... all sorted thank god ... basically what happended was judge called me up called the guard up , judge asked me was i ensured at the time i was stopped i said yes he said why no disc i said i had trouble getting my cert at the time ... judge said ok 100 euro fine and you have 3 months to pay it case dismissed ... that was that .... just thought i would let you all know how it went .

servicecharge

Taxing in the Circuit Court, as someone said, is before the County Registrar. It is just like a mini court case only it simply looks at the costs of the legal teams.

The other side will submit a 'Bill of costs' firstly to you/your solicitor. You can agree their fee at that stage or let it go before the Registrar.

She will look at every single item on the bill (these bills are hugely complicated and should, in such a fee, run to 20-30 pages). Who ever represents you (solicitor/yourself/legal cost accountant) will try to reduce the bill by arguing various things before the registrar.

I use http://www.dfglegalcosts.com/ to represent me in taxing, they're good bunch of guys.

BTW their bill sounds ridiculous. Let it go to taxing.