Resiliance Change's in 3.2

AaronFitz

Incase you peep's didn't hear resilience is changing across the board in patch 3.2, it will now reduce all incoming damage from all source's (not just crit's anymore) The change is underlined below, my opinion is below that.

With 800 resilience, you get 10% flat damage reduction from players IN ADDITION to -10% crit chance and -22% crit damage, that is a lot of damage reduction!
Resilience in Patch 3.2 will lower incoming damage across the board in addition to its protection against critical strikes.

Could this push the balance in arena's towards the more unlikely people? Will healer's become the dominant toon again? Will it bring back the reign of the healer and Mortal Strike debuff? I have a feeling we will defo see alot more team's like Hunter-Druid-dps, Warrior-Druid-dps, Warrior-Priest-dps etc.

Will this kill double DPS teams? Or will it make them more of a threat as they will be as such able to take alot more of a beating. What about classes with very high survival already like DK's? Will they become even more god like? Are the nurfs to DK's recently due to this change? More importantly I think will be the effect it has on Warlocks, more so the destuction ones. Why? Well if your up-to-date on your Warlock talent tree's and glyphs you may already be awear of how powerful and resiliant a fully pvp geared destro lock is. Ever notice how your damage is always 1k less on a warlock? This is due to a mixture of talent's and glyph's and IMHO this will become very potent in 3.2 with the resil change.

Currently a Dest warlock has the following talents.... Soul Link. On it's own its an automatic 20% damage reduction, with a glyph this becomes 25%,

Molten Skin: This talent reduce's damage from all source's by a flat 6%.

So that nets them with 26% damage reduction, or a whopping 31% with the glyph, this is quite high. I personally have come across dest lock frost mage teams in the 2300 area that are very potent and even though rogue mage (my team) is a direct counter they beat us a few times, now come patch 3.2 a warlocks inherent damage reduction will be a massive 41%, has anyone else considered this? Now personally I think this is a good change as locks needed this survival (no blink / barrier's) but will it be to much damage reduction? The increase from 31% to 41% will be very noticable....

So the question here is, what do you make of the Resil change, is it to much? Will it pigeon hole dps to go with a healer now? Will it bring back the reign of Warr / healer hunter druid combo's?

The following question is on how some classes will gain quite alot more than other come this change. The counter to this argument will be (Well everyone can get resil so it wont change much every thing will be = but longer) Is this really the case though? I as a mage disagree, I need haste, something my pvp gear lacks compleatly, and I need alot of it.... That limit's me to 200-400 resili depending on how I plan to play but if I ever went over that amount my haste would be so low I'm no longer a burst threat, I'd imagin the same would go for rogue?

So what is your view on the situation? Are you dps that is not a warr or hunter, if so are you worried? Or are you a healer and do you think it will be easier to dominate?

][cEMAN**

Have you seen the amount of damage that gets done in an arena even in a 2v2? You could be looking at about 100k if it goes on long enough. Otherwise if it's quite, maybe 40-50k. Now even if you reduce 50% of incoming dmg, that's still not staying up that long.

It'll stop burst damage, and help against classes that can stop you in your tracks for a few seconds, which is a great help.

I'm all for this. I'll make fights more fun than whoever hits first wins.

AaronFitz

' wrote:

[cEMAN**;60949884']Have you seen the amount of damage that gets done in an arena even in a 2v2? You could be looking at about 100k if it goes on long enough. Otherwise if it's quite, maybe 40-50k. Now even if you reduce 50% of incoming dmg, that's still not staying up that long.

It'll stop burst damage, and help against classes that can stop you in your tracks for a few seconds, which is a great help.

I'm all for this. I'll make fights more fun than whoever hits first wins.

I dont think your seeing the whole picture, yes it will be good Vs double dps, but what if its to good? Then we just have what was in S3 Warrior and druids running about in 2v2 steam rolling every thing cause everyone lacks burst no-one can kill your healer and you take such small damage your healer can drink etc (We all remember S3 and the mace stun warr yes?It was not just the mace stun that made this comp good, it was the MS the un-killable druid, the warr with sheild able to survive for druid to use drinks etc. Double dps team's may no longer be viable which not only mean's they must pair off with a healer but on-top of that may be less effective with a healer.... For example, imagin a frost mage + Disc priest Vs a Warrior + resto druid.... What happens here? The mage, a dps class has -10% damage on both targets now along with - crit % and - crit damage, the mage will not be able to get = Resil to the warrior cause we need haste, we cannot function as a dps class without it, the diffrence in burst from being able to frost bolt + lancex2 or just lance x3 in a deep freeze is only possible with haste.... that is alot of burst down the drain if we decide to go max out on Resil.... Most classes can function in a full PvP set, however some cannot..... Rogues and mages come to mind.... All healers will benifit from this buff...Some Dps who can already dps in full PvP gear as their stats are complimentry to them will be able to dps (Warlocks, Hunters) will see a larger benifit too, Esp locks as I explained in an earlier post.

AaronFitz

' wrote:

[cEMAN**;60949884']Have you seen the amount of damage that gets done in an arena even in a 2v2? You could be looking at about 100k if it goes on long enough. Otherwise if it's quite, maybe 40-50k. Now even if you reduce 50% of incoming dmg, that's still not staying up that long.

It'll stop burst damage, and help against classes that can stop you in your tracks for a few seconds, which is a great help.

I'm all for this. I'll make fights more fun than whoever hits first wins.

Forgot to add, In arena's now as gear is progressing I find the damage is still quite high yes, but at higher rating's I also notice game's lasting longer than 2 mins are quite common, thus showing the burst is evening out the longer the season is going on, maybe it should of being left run it's corse? Maybe it would of leveled out further down the line as PvE gear which most burst classes rely on had more and more stam on it and simply replaced resil with more spell power/ haste / Attack power / Armour pen etc...

Now resil change is going ahead, you must wear pvp gear.... This is not an option even for mages with current resiliance mechanics, we must wear parts PvE gear to Arena effectivly, after the resiliance change it Definatly wont be an option for a mage as now everything will be the same except mage now have a -10% damage across the board..... I know everyone else will to but my point is, a warr already PvP's in full pvp set most of the time, a mage will never pvp in a full arena set....nor will a rogue....

sunzz

Ive often been in arena matches spanning 35+ mins on numerous occasions with 1million dmg + healing being put out easily.

100k is by no means alot

All this will do is stop the zerfest arena has become and require people to actually setup kills intelligently like we had to pre wotlk

AaronFitz

sunzz wrote: »

Ive often been in arena matches spanning 35+ mins on numerous occasions with 1million dmg + healing being put out easily.

100k is by no means alot

All this will do is stop the zerfest arena has become and require people to actually setup kills intelligently like we had to pre wotlk

You wont be able to set up kill's at all now though, dont you see how this change may very well bring back the mana warr's between healers and the dominance of Mortal Strike? Healing debuff's became much less of a mandatory need esp in 2V2's as its just not needed as much if your team had decent CC and co-ordinated it flawlessly with spell intrupts, this is why Mortal strike became less needed, now its back to MS being needed healer being needed and the skill used in a double dps team to CC a dps while we attempt to kill a piller humping healer will now be impossible.....

As a mage in a mage rogue 2v2 team and a RMP 3v3 I cordinated extreamly well with my other team mate/s to do stuff like force a trink early on with hefty burst.... Then sheep (while dpsing another target) rogue sap while dpsing another target I counterspell while dpsing another target, rogue vanish cheap shot back to old target then I had to run up or use pet nova for a deep freeze etc, all that was required for us to win Vs a plate + healer, we had to lock out the healer and kill the plate and it was hard. Very hard, by no means a zerg fest either as if you had half a brain and went to a piller that combo is gone.... Now that everyone will be taking way less damage it wont be possible.... I'm telling you all right now give a good welcome back the era of Warr + druid and say good luck to double dps teams (again) With this change healer's will become extreamly potent in the arena again via being un killable, thus they will need a target able to heal debuff and tank alot of damage if the need to drink araises (say hello to the warrior) and there you go, it's Season 3 all over again, Does any one else here remember that season and how every team over 2.3k(back then this was v high where as now 2.6k is v high) was warr druid bar the odd 5%? At least now there are combo's like mage lock and mage feral, I'v even seen Ele shamans with other dps comps doing well, easilly able to pass 2.2k rating this will all go back to the way it was.... Can anyone see why or is it just me?

My main point is, as a dps it's already very very hard to kill a healer, we must blow a trink and / or bubble. We then must chain CC flawlessly as to not suffer diminishing returns as much as possible....We must wear PvE gear to then switch targets and burst down or DPS target. This is with current resiliance, this means come the change even with our PvE gear our burst wont cut it anymore....It will force us to wear even more PvE gear thus less PvP gear to get them down now... Which means less resil for us, and currently we need the 200-400 we need so where does that leave us?

Drakar

New pvp gear will require the rating in 3v3 or 5v5, maybe they've given up trying to balance 2v2.

AaronFitz

Also from one of the top rogue's in WoW the following had to be said by him.... Akrios: Creator of http://roguerogue.com/
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Cho%27gall&n=Akrioss


The Resilience Changes

Resilience: No longer reduces the amount of damage done by damage over time spells, but instead reduces the amount of all damage done by players by the same proportion. The other effects of resilience (reducing critical chance, critical damage and mana drain effects) have not changed.

Well this is easily the biggest PvP change in this expansion thus far. I see what Blizzard is trying to do here. Their idea is that players do not have enough survivability in arena, people get bursted too easily. Unfortunately, I feel their solution is mediocre at best, and will be greatly detrimental to rogues in their current state. Here’s why.
The problem with WOTLK isn’t just damage, its also healing burst. One insanely fast heal (that you have to guess to interrupt) already heals way too hard. On good healers, you have to guess if the healer is faking or not at this stage of wow to try to get an interrupt on the vast majority of heals, and penance is a complete guess because even if they fake it they can use two huge ticks for a full health bar. One heal should not bring a target to full every single time it goes off, especially when they have become so easy to get off. Nerfing damage without nerfing this will have a huge effect on the game’s structure and balance.
This resilience change is great in that it solves the problem of damage in PvP. Yes, it was too high, and this will probably put damage on a full resil target right about where it should be. But why not instead adjust stamina levels by 10-15 percent rather than resilience? Buffing resilience buffs healers and classes that can last an extremely long time (warriors, warlocks) and don’t rely on a quick slurry of burst and cooldowns. This change is going to see healing dominate this game , there will be no more double dps success (and I know this is already a non-factor but triple dps will be completely gone as well). Strong healing and survivability goes best with classes that last like warriors and support dps that never goes oom like warlocks or dks. Rogues are the MS class that will struggle the most with these changes because at the moment we have the least longevity as fights go longer when compared against the other ms classes.

We considered the idea that resilience acts like a debuff for heals, but we’re not happy with what that might do to the game. You’d be in a situaiton where sometimes you might not want extra resilience since it lowers your healing. Resilience is already something of a trade-off since it often comes at the expense of other stats (though hopfully less after these changes).
There is a possibility that if fights go on for too long that dps casters may run OOM more than they should. That is something we may have to adjust, but we don’t think it’s simple to math out what kind of buff casters should be given at the moment. Note that the intent is not to turn every Arena match into a 20 minute slog. The intent is to have fewer 30 second matches.
I do see some people saying that healers were already in god mode and this will only buff them. Just realize that player perceptions or intentions are different. For one person, a healer in a 2 vs. 2 shouldn’t be able to keep their partner up alone. For another, having a 1 healer, 4 dps team in a 5 should be perfectly viable.

So what I take from that response is that they are aware that healers are already incredibly strong and are only going to get stronger. I don’t know how to respond to this specifically but it is bad news for rogues as they stand at the moment. Adjusting stamina would have been a much, MUCH more balanced and obvious statistic to buff to balance the game rather than resilience. At least we can say blizz is aware of the problems and has the right goal in mind, but where are these 30 second games they’re talking about? In 3s, yes things are slightly too bursty but games aren’t that fast. I really hope that their vision for arena is some kind of balance where people will die without ooming the opposition.




I am not alone here in what is to be.


Also: They are re-allowing 2v2 to get arena gear bar the weapons and shoulders