Using Supplements

BeepBeep67

Looking for feedback and advice on anyone using supplements to aid recovery and performace - only legal substances please :rolleyes:.
I've never really gone beyond, Vitamin C, multi-vitamins and the odd sports drink, but now in my 40's the natural powers of recovery are not what they used to be, even though I would focus more on post race / session warm down / stretching than when I was younger.
Shopping in Tesco last night I see the are carrying a range from this company: http://www.scienceinsport.com/ at reasonable prices - so I was reading the post workout protein recovery shake and wondering are there any real benefits or just another ploy to make me spend more money on the 'free' sport I enjoy?

Thanks in advance

Dom

messygirl

hi beepbeep not speaking through experience but i read that protein helps build up muscles that makes them stronger (after they tear down during exercise) so it is important but too much protein can be damaging for you. if you go to a website calorie-count.com and put in what you eat for the day they tell you exactly how much protein you've eaten, how many carbs, etc so if you do that for a week then you can decide how much you really need and base your supplements around that.

asimonov

Hey Dom,

I'd suggest that post workout nutrition is really important

A key insight here is that you actually gain benefit from your training as your body "recovers from" and adapts to training - rather then during the effort of training itself. So there are important things you can do to assist this process after your run.

After each time you train, your body looks for four things; water, electrolytes, carbohydrate and protein.

There is a period of time (about an hour) after each session where your body is primed to take in carbohydrate and protein, the carbohydrate will replenish your energy stores and the protein will help your muscles rebuild and strengthen. If you don't give your body what it needs in that space of time it goes into a slower (approx. 72 hour) less efficient recovery mode. This is not ideal if you plan on doing another run tomorrow or a hard session two days later.

In terms of recovery nutrition, it is important to know that recovery products are not the only solution; i know many people use low fat milk, chocolate milk, slimfast or ordinary food like tuna and brown bread...anything that gives them a mix of approx 3/1 carbohydrate to protein for energy and muscle development. So on that basis, pure protein shakes are not ideal for endurance sports, as they don't address energy.

To anwser your specific question, i think recovery nutrition is not a ploy, it is vital if you want to extract the most benefit from your training. However you can get this benefit from sources other than branded nutritional sports products. This choice is a matter of convenience, budget, taste and personal preference.

Finally, your recovery should not just be nutritional but should include the warm down, stretching and rest as well.

I hope this helps.

Running Bing

I think most supplements are a bit of a ploy tbh. You hear a lot about stuff like Ginseng and other things that supposedly increase energy etc., and they might work, but there is very little (if any) solid scientific evidence out there that says it does.

Im just reading Anita Beans book on sports nutrition that was recommended here a while back and she has a list of loads of supplements and their supposed effects and what evidence there is to back the claims. Most have absolutely nothing solid to justify the claims made.

Personally I think you can get all of what you need from normal food with a good multivitamin to compensate for times when your not eating as well as you could.

I like to make my own shake now and again. I know exactly what goes into it and it doesnt cost an arm and a leg. Here's what I put in:

ten tablespoons of oats
1 banana
1 teaspoon of cocoa powder (good 100% cocoa powder, not the one with all the added sugar)
1 teaspoon of Peanut butter (again nothing but peanuts!)
a few ice cubes
Cover with skim milk

I blend all that up and it tastes delicious. I find it handy when I need something quick and know I wont get a chance to get a good meal for a few hours.

average_runner

I have notice in the last two weeks that i am struggling alot on my runs, like the body is really tired.

I do think the heat and beer from sat effected my run today, and probably got dehydrated

So after people do a session what is your favourite recovery food and drink?

Running Bing

average_runner wrote: »

I have notice in the last two weeks that i am struggling alot on my runs, like the body is really tired.

I do think the heat and beer from sat effected my run today, and probably got dehydrated

So after people do a session what is your favourite recovery food and drink?

A glass of ice cold skim milk. Simple Carbs, protein, low fat, calcium and it tastes good.;)

asimonov

Running Bing wrote: »

I think most supplements are a bit of a ploy tbh. You hear a lot about stuff like Ginseng and other things that supposedly increase energy etc., and they might work, but there is very little (if any) solid scientific evidence out there that says it does.

Im just reading Anita Beans book on sports nutrition that was recommended here a while back and she has a list of loads of supplements and their supposed effects and what evidence there is to back the claims. Most have absolutely nothing solid to justify the claims made.

Personally I think you can get all of what you need from normal food with a good multivitamin to compensate for times when your not eating as well as you could.

I like to make my own shake now and again. I know exactly what goes into it and it doesnt cost an arm and a leg. Here's what I put in:

ten tablespoons of oats
1 banana
1 teaspoon of cocoa powder (good 100% cocoa powder, not the one with all the added sugar)
1 teaspoon of Peanut butter (again nothing but peanuts!)
a few ice cubes
Cover with skim milk

I blend all that up and it tastes delicious. I find it handy when I need something quick and know I wont get a chance to get a good meal for a few hours.

i totally agree with your cynical take on supplementation - most of it is based on very little fact and its an enormous industry. In terms of making your own shake; that is a good idea - at least you know the provenance of all that goes into it...the issue is the "now and again bit" - most people don't get a meal into them within 90 minutes after training because they've used up their lunch-break or its late at night and they've had showers or hung around chatting; that's where people look to use product or milk to get something into them quickly and it takes the pressure off having to eat a meal straight away.

asimonov

average_runner wrote: »

I have notice in the last two weeks that i am struggling alot on my runs, like the body is really tired.

I do think the heat and beer from sat effected my run today, and probably got dehydrated

So after people do a session what is your favourite recovery food and drink?

i alternate between milk and product; depending on whether its a training run that finishes at home, i'm away, at the track (or if there's milk left in the fridge!).

Stupid_Private

Running Bing wrote: »

A glass of ice cold skim milk. Simple Carbs, protein, low fat, calcium and it tastes good.;)

My current regime isn't up to scratch but I'm working on it. In the immediate aftermath I think you're meant to get around 1.5g of carbs per kilo of bodyweight into you. Considering the likes of lucozade, gatorade and so on have around 30g in them I still need around another 100g of carbs. Up until recently I'd have a bowl of muesli when I get in. Now if I have an energy drink in the house I'll have that as well or a bagel if there's no energy drink. I'm still shy on the figures that the experts say but getting better.

dna_leri

average_runner wrote: »

I have notice in the last two weeks that i am struggling alot on my runs, like the body is really tired.

I do think the heat and beer from sat effected my run today, and probably got dehydrated

So after people do a session what is your favourite recovery food and drink?

Read somewhere that chocolate milk has ideal mix of carbs and protein for recovery. Bought it a few times recently on way home from a tough session. Don't know whether its the placebo effect but it seemed to work and normally I don't eat chocolate.

Usually prefer to go for homemade shake: semi-skimmed milk, low fat yoghurt, whatever fruit is available (banana & strawberries are good).

DL

DangerMouse27

Hi all, Good thread.
I read that Colin Jackson used to have really dark choc after training..bourneville or something.Apparently he thought it helped his muscle tone.

Saw a great video on you tube of David Gillick making his Gilly flapjacks..i tried em and they are a great alternative to biscuits.
I go with the basics...cut out white bread as much as you can,drink loads of water,try cut out the sweets and crisps.
Totally agree with above thread on electrolyte replacement drinks post workout.

average_runner....after a few beers the night before we all suffer with that next day run also your training could just have plateud(prob spelt wrong) and have nothing to do with diet.

RealistSpy

whey protein after workout
Bcaa before workout

BeepBeep67

Thanks for the responses - would most use after every workout or only sessions / races?

average_runner

HI;

You say my training could of plateau(spelt wrong i think), if so does it just mean i am over training or just a tough spell i am going thru?

Seres

asimonov wrote: »

i alternate between milk and product; depending on whether its a training run that finishes at home, i'm away, at the track (or if there's milk left in the fridge!).

very interesting thread , great advice there asimonov and others , what do you mean by product ? and a decent glass of milk within an hour of training should provide all the necessaries ( water , protein, electroyles , carbs ) as you mentioned ?

Bambaata

I believe you can indeed get all you need form food but supplements are what they are called. They should only supplement a good diet. They do have benefits however when training doesn't finish at home or close to food etc. They're a convenience more than anything. That said i had the Provon Revive after Hell of the West and i didn't feel any niggle on Sunday. I was tired alright but no stiffness whatsoever.

asimonov

Seres wrote: »

very interesting thread , great advice there asimonov and others , what do you mean by product ? and a decent glass of milk within an hour of training should provide all the necessaries ( water , protein, electroyles , carbs ) as you mentioned ?

By product i mean any recovery (carb & protein) product, so take your pick from science in sport, high 5, enervit, provon revive or lucozade (not an exhaustive list) who all offer options.

i can't definitively say that a glass of milk provides all the necessaries; it will contain water, carb and protein for sure...but i'm not sure how much and i'm not sure on the electrolyte content (if any)...maybe someone else can clarify this? I have a report on it that i lent out, i'll see if i can get my hands on it and post it here during the week.

I do a bit of work in this area and i'd say that the vast majority of performance-focused athletes who are well coached are absolutely committed to recovery nutrition as a practice, and would have their nutrition and training sync'd for peak performance. IMO, its a key difference between people who are totally performance orientated and enthusiasts, but i thinks its an area where we can learn from elites.

It very much fits with shels4ever's good post yesterday on having a structured approach to your training, putting your body through stress, recovery and adaptation for long term gain. People find it easier to use gels or energy products because they get an instant effect from them whereas with recovery / proteins its a slower burn but one that should deliver positive results.

DangerMouse27

You say my training could of plateau(spelt wrong i think), if so does it just mean i am over training or just a tough spell i am going thru?[/QUOTE]

Quite possibly either of those,if you dont keep a training log (get one!) then go back in your head and see were you doing more or less than usual and before you started feeling sluggish,did you have sessions where you felt unstoppable?

Take two running days off and do weights or cycle,swim etc..