making an existing main street product better

FusionNet

Hi All,

Has anyone had any experience of taking an existing product and making it better or making additions to it? In other jo bloggs makes a product but you think it could be made better but if you tell Jo he'll steal your idea and make millions for himself!! Is there any way to come up with a concept, have it date stamped or approved by someone and then approach a major company with the idea? And yes I am aware of many of people who have done this and been screwed (thank you Mr Ford and Mr window wiper man!)..!!

When I say product I mean a large company, not Mary's bread shop down the road!!

There is the idea of doing it yourself but Im just short the few hundred grand needed to do that!

Advice truly welcome, cheers as always..

Bellies

Flora Pro Activ did this years ago to a company called Benecol.
Benecol had designed this highly innovative drink but failed to express the benefits to potential customers in simple clear english.

Along came Flora, pretty much used the same ingredients and marketed this product towards the customer.

Scientifically, Benecol is proven to be a far superior product, but Flora expressed the benefits to the customer and it made millions!

Maybe if you were in a position to give a small bit more details, people could bounce ideas off each other?

FusionNet

heya,

My question really realtes to the fact that I have an idea for a product. But half that product is out there already and I think the addition of my idea on top would make the product a lot better. I obviously cant go into the details of the idea but I know companies like Ericsson actually have protocalls and documents where they invite the public to submit ideas to them, as an R&D team can often not think outside the box.

So if you submit to ericsson and they use it you get royalties and a payment. Obviously if I go to the company with the idea they'll say it rubbish and then just develop it and claim it to themselves, that would suck!!

Bellies

Yeah it would be a killer blow alrite, the cheapest method of payment I can think of is developing the idea, and document everything. Once you have this documented register post the package to you home address and do not open it. As far as I'm aware it will stand up.

Oce you do this could you not sell the idea to the company in question?

I posted a thread here months back about a new sports drink I wanted to create, I actually found a small company in the states that was doing what I wanted to do and after being practically ignored by manufacturers over here (wouldn't even answer an email asking questions about their product) I decided to try get the rights to this product I found in the states. Same sort of situation as the example Bellies gave except there is no "flora" in this instance. I just wanted to get their product into Ireland. I emailed the CEO (smallish company so info was easy to get) and offered to fly over to New York to their head office to give them the presentation on why I should sell their product in Ireland and Europe. They were interested and wanted me to present it (there was no guarantee I would get the "job" so to speak but they were still interested in hearing me out which was a positive). Unfortunately, I wanted to do something entirely myself and said I'd wait till I finish travelling to pursue it. The product is still over there and not in Europe yet and I might go back to that if my own idea doesn't work when I get home. (exit strategy and back up and all that)

I suppose my point is some companies are willing to give you a chance but because your idea is making a product better, your process is far more complex. I suppose you could always send a letter to your solicitor with the proposed idea, tell him not to open the letter, ensure it's dated and sent via registered post and if you have no other way in terms of capital to do this yourself, then try the presentation route but you'd need to set some terms first. As to how to do this, talk to a solicitor I suppose. It's a tough one.

murphaph

unfortunately you have to keep the idea secret if you want to apply for a patent (pretty much the only protection you can get for a hard product, eg, ie software which could also be copyrighted).

Patents are not cheap even if you fail to get one of course. If the changes to the existing product are significant and would not obviously be thought of (for example sticking a clock on a pen is not patentable as anyone could feasibly think of it) then you can patent the new product in theory at least.

I believe you can talk tour idea over with a patent attorney for a LARGE fee and he'll advise. If you get a patent you'll want to licence your idea asap to get it off your hands cos if someone large dcides to copy your patent you will have to defend it in court. lots of patented ideas are stolen by big boys who can afford to keep you in court long enough to bankrupt you.

If you apply for a patent and it's not watertight it's worse than not having a patent at all as the patent is now public domain and open to be 'picked apart'. Big companies scour patent apps and reverse engineer them and alter them just enough to bypass the patent, so it needs to be written well.

I did a bit on patenting/trademarks/copyright in college and they often read really vaguely so that you can say "well I meant x y or z" and also so that from reading the patent it is less clear what is actually being described. I'll never forget our Intellectual Property lecturer kept saying it was a "black art" to write a good patent app. I suppose that's why patent attorneys cost an absolute fortune.

FusionNet

Ya I was thinking all that myself which does put a bit of a downer on the whole thing. I know the product could be developed from scratch with a chinese manufacturer but I dont have the experience or backing to take on a venture. I guess we all come up with great ideas or niche products sometimes but getting them built or sold is another thing altogether.. Its a pity its not a little easier..

Nothing is easy in my experience. People will knock you back as quick as they can and fair enough sometimes an idea may not be up to scratch, but people seem to love knocking the **** out of a bad idea! You just got to battle on, continue to think big and work your balls off to make things happen!

FusionNet

Sounds like a plan.. Ill start doing a little Research myself and do some drawings and tip away at the idea..

515

Patent patent patent.

It doesn't have to cost the earth (at first).

The posting the idea to yourself plan DOES NOT PROTECT YOU. It can work in the US, but they have a very different patent system to us.

First make sure the idea isn't already patented or on the market. You can do a patent search yourself online but might be well off getting a patent agent to check too (cost a few hundred).

An initial chat with a patent agent is confidential and free, do it.

If the idea is patentable then consider filing a short-term Irish patent application. The main cost in this is getting a patent agent to write it up, but you might be able to file it yourself if you do some research. This will give you 1 year before you need to make changes and file in other juristictions. That should eb plenty of time to find out if a manufacturer will pay you for it.

Steps:
1 - patent search (do it for free online yourself first)
2 - TALK TO A PATENT AGENT
3 - maybe get agent to search (few hundred euro)
4 - research target companies and identify the right contact person
5 - draw up a patent (yourself free)
6 - arrange meetings (don't disclose the idea)
7 - file patent just before meetings
8 - present it and see how you go

If they like the idea you can put money into paying for a patent agent to draw up and file the full application. Getting from interest to a deal is still extremely difficult and expensive, but at least you can find out if it's worth the risk relatively cheaply.

Be careful though, if you make a mess of the first filing of the patent if could cost you, so if you can afford it pay for it to be done by a patent attorney. Ask for their advice at the first free meeting and be honest about wanting to keep the cost down until you have interest. If teh idea is good they'll want to help you get to the point of hiring them.

All the above are just my thoughts, always get the advice of legal people to make sure what you plan to do is right.

sneakerfreak

simple-make it cheaper