No headstone on my buddy's grave.

Culchie

About 4 years ago, one of my best mates was killed instantly in a car crash (by a drunk driver, who was also killed). He was a father of 3, aged 35. I was living in Dublin at the time, so only met up with him on weekends when I was home visiting for the weekends...but we were mates since we were in school together.
His death hit me harder than anything I have experienced in life so far, but you just move on with life, and my childhood memories of the craic we had will always stay with me.

Recently I went to visit the grave and there is still no headstone erected by either his wife or his family, and it makes me very upset that his life is not even acknowledged by a headstone.
Without knowing all the details, I know that his wife and his family don't get on, and this 'tension' was even apparent around the time of his funeral. His wife soon met up with someone else, and recently had another child....which I'm sure has only deepened their divide.

I'm disgusted that my buddy hasn't even got a headstone .... It's like he never existed. I'm thinking of chatting to other friends of his and getting one ourselves between us.

What do you think?

galwayrush

You have some good memories of him, so remember the good times, you don't need a Headstone for that.:)

Captain-America

I think Personal Issues to be honest mate.

yurmothrintites

Focus on your good memories of him and forget the tensions about the gravestone is probably the best thing you can do.

Silverfish

Four years and no headstone?

Four years?
That's awful.

I think whatever way you do this, you'll step on someone's toes.
Perhaps approach the parents first.

White_Feather

I think your better off leaving this up to your mates family. They prob would not appreciate you taking matters into your own hands or asking questions, even though you mean well. Nobody knows what goes on behind closed doors and as you have said they dont get on which might prolonging the whole situation. Think this should be moved to PI tbh..

Sharpshooter

Moved From After Hours.

m83

That is serisously ****ty. Time to put pressure on the family to sort it out. If they don't, rally your mates around.

Talk about the ultimate dis....

orestes

I think the decision is best left with the wife and family I'm afraid. It is understandable that you wish to honour and commemorate the life and loss of your friend, but I think you should consider another way of doing it and consider other ways of doing so. If your friends widow and family are already on shaky ground I would imagine going against their wishes on this would only cause more hurt and anger.

I know it might sound daft but how about a bench or something with a plaque on it in a park or something along those lines? I know some people do that to commemorate people they have lost, maybe something along those lines but tailored around something special about your friend would be something worth considering?

Sorry for your loss, even after 4 years I know losing a friend is a hurt that never really goes away.

Poor Uncle Tom

There's other things you can do. It doesn't have to be a headstone. Why not something like an inscribed limestone kneeler on its own, or a stone in the shape of a headstone but smaller which could be inscribed and left flat on the grave.

Sorry for your troubles but AH may not be the ideal location for this thread.

Ellsbells

TBH, I think its his next of kins call. Maybe you could plant something in your own garden in his honour but its not your place to tell hi family what to do...

Maybe she cant afford a headstone right now.

Firetrap

Blood is thicker than water. I know you mean well but your mate's family/widow will almost certainly see it as interference from outside. I find it hard to believe that nobody in his own family has wanted to put up a headstone in the past four years

Culchie

Firetrap wrote: »

Blood is thicker than water. I know you mean well but your mate's family/widow will almost certainly see it as interference from outside. I find it hard to believe that nobody in his own family has wanted to put up a headstone in the past four years

Me neither:( I haven't brought up the subject, but I think there has been some good suggestions here, feeling a little better about it already.

I agree that 4 years is a very long time but there may be many reasons for a headstone not being put up so don't assume the worst, as someone mentioned, they may not be able to afford it.

It took me 2 years to put up a headstone simply because it was such a difficult thing to do, to go looking at headstones, choose one that will be there forever, decide what is to be written on it etc. It's not an easy thing to do.

Bottom line is that it is the family's decision.

Edit: as per stillcrazy's post below, it is the wife's decision, noone else is allowed to commission a headstone, she owns the land that the grave is on.

stillcrazy

Think its the wifes decision on what happens to the grave & not his other family, based on a friends experience a few years ago. Also some people cant contemplate dealing with a headstone etc as it seems so final, but granted four years is a long time.You cant really do anything without the wifes/familys consent but if you get their permission, instead of a headstone which should really be left to close family, why dont you get one of those engraved open book / scroll types from his friends (cant really describe it but you see them on a lot of graves if you have a look around)

If it is one of the newer cemeteries, you may be able to get a bench in your friends honour which would be a nice way of you doing something to mark his life.

Latchy

I'm thinking of chatting to other friends of his and getting one ourselves between us.

What do you think?

Think that would be a great idea .I was one of many people in the uk who attended a service for a ' forgotton irishman ' in which a new headstone was put in place of an old collapsed one .That would be something to cherish in memory of your friend .

Deleted User wrote: »

If it is one of the newer cemeteries, you may be able to get a bench in your friends honour which would be a nice way of you doing something to mark his life.

Yes indeed , a freind of mine who tragiically died in a road accident 5 years ago , has her name engraved on a plate on park bench , near wear she lived .

She was only 23 when she died

Tar.Aldarion

Do you know the parents at all? I would broach teh subject with them, to gauge their reaction. I know a headstone isn't important to your memories of the person but I sure as hell would want one over the grave of somebody when I visited them, I suppose to 'talk' with them, rather than unmarked land.

chamlis

Op you should check neighbouring headstones to see if there are ones with dates much newer than your buddy's.
Depending on the type of land the graveyard is on, there is a period of time needed before erecting a gravestone after the person is buried. I believe it's usually a year (4 years does seem excessive), but I'd check the other headstones around it to be sure before mentioning to anyone.

The Sweeper

I'd say you might find that, as opposed to not wanting a headstone, the wife and the family both wanted something different - e.g. the parents wanted a large stone angel and the wife wanted something in polished black marble and both sides thought they were the ones who REALLY knew what your friend wanted etc.

As others have said, look into doing something yourself to commemorate your friend. Perhaps get together with the other relevant parties who aren't the wife or the parents and see what you can come up with between you.

LegacyUser

Culchie wrote: »

I'm disgusted that my buddy hasn't even got a headstone .... It's like he never existed. I'm thinking of chatting to other friends of his and getting one ourselves between us.

What do you think?

my dad died few years ago

took around a year for things to be done with the head stone and it turned out it was a different family member (his brother) who went and got it sorted,

its not any disrespect or anything like that, it can just be really hard to do these types of things and accept whats happened

people deal with things differently

A.Partridge

You come across as being a very caring, sensitive and loyal friend.

However, DO NOT touch his grave or attempt to place any permanent memorial stone on it without the express permission of his wife and family.:eek:

I have personal experience of someone who decided that it was 'high time' my father's name be inscribed on the family tombstone after a period (which was only a few months) and went ahead and did it without consultation with any of us, that is to say his immediate family.

There was pandemonium....especially given that the person did not even spell his name correctly!

Seriously, honour his memory a different way...but don't touch his grave.

Dido1

Four years does seem like a long time, but there could be any number of reasons for this. My sister died in an accident a number of years ago and I clearly remember how difficult it was for my parents to pick a headstone and figure out what to put on it. However it is something for the family to deal with. My sister's friends got a large flat stone painted with a beautiful poem inscribed on it which described her and her life perfectly and my family really appreciated this. I think that you and your mates should do something along those lines as you may cause alot more pain if you take it upon yourselves to erect a headstone.

Hagar

Have you considered that the money just wasn't there to put up a headstone? Maybe his widow was left with debts, little or no insurance and had to make hard choices. It may not be any form of disrespect towards your friend just the struggle of life going on for a widow.

BostonB

Like others have said sometimes it takes a while, just to accept it all. I would have put a headstown up with 6 months or a year, but others in the family weren't ready for that. It over 2yrs now, and you've just reminded me I should give them a nudge about it. I notice other graves waiting for a stone for a long time too. Others are done almost immediately. Everyone different.

iguana

Have you considered that your friend may have discussed this with his wife before he died and not actually wanted a gravestone? Couples do discuss what they want to happen if they die even when they have no reason to expect they will die any time soon, and not everyone wants to have a gravestone. Neither myself or my husband would like one, so it's possible that this is what he would have wanted.

CDfm

I do think you might approach his wife and ask straight out in a keeping in touch way. Lets say there is something she is having difficulty handling your friend would probably want you to be supportive.

Otherwise its only hearsay and speculation.

carlybabe1

Silverfish wrote: »

Four years and no headstone?

Four years?
That's awful.

I think whatever way you do this, you'll step on someone's toes.
Perhaps approach the parents first.

In all fairness, I dont think we should jump to conclusions, or assume that they no longer care. OP was the grave well tended?
having lost a child myself, (5 years ago this november, and I still dont have a headstone either) I cant bear the thought of cementing him in, it might sound silly or nonsensical, but it just seems so final, Im unwilling to take that step just yet. However his grave is well tended with lots of flower pots and toys etc.

It could also be a financial thing, I mean his wife is left with 3 young children to raise alone, and its not easy to keep the head above water and pay the bills, much less fork out 4000+ that she probably doesnt have.
If she doesn't get on with his parents then I doubt she would feel comfortable asking them to pitch in.
If I were you I would aproach the wife, as legally she gets to say what happens as regards headstone stuff, but I know you cant just go and get one, you need planning permission from the council, and it has to be next of kin that applies for that. Maybe if you offered to have a whip around for him, but make sure it doesn't come across as charity.
Best of luck OP, I hope this helps, but deffo approach her first and if you aren't happy then contact his parents

thescruff

Know how u feel mate the merry widow has moved on and perhaps feels the headstone cost is up to his family.....maybe she can't afford one....why not approach the merry widow tell her ur thoughts and do a collection among ur mates and erect a headstone......shame on all their houses........it's a tribute to the memory of ur dead colleague.....go for it....sad to see an unmarked grave for a good mate!

ChewChew

I also always thought it was a bit weird when some people didn't have a headstone up untill I started visiting a graveyard for the last 4 years where my dad is buried.

Next to my Dad there is a 35 year old man buried and his parents are always at his graveside and he is dead for 8 years. only last year they put up a head stone, and we got chatting and the guys mum told me she wanted to put the headstone up straight away but his Dad told me he didn't want one at all because then he felt like his son was really gone, he felt like it was a done deal and his son was never coming back. he knew he was never coming back but this man said that even though his son was a grown man of 35, he was still his baby boy. and he didn't want to let go of that, he just was not ready. Denial, absolutely. but it was the only way this man could cope. and it took him 7 years.

so maybe your friends family are feeling a little like this too?? Or on the otherhand, there could always be the issue of paying for it. They dont come cheap these days!

Best of luck op.

Eccentric

Culchie wrote: »

I'm disgusted that my buddy hasn't even got a headstone .... It's like he never existed. I'm thinking of chatting to other friends of his and getting one ourselves between us.

What do you think?

Why don't you ask his parents or wife what the story is? I think it's not your place and you would more than likely put a few noses out of joint if you go ahead with this without their input. It's a personal family matter and has nothing to do with how his friends feel - it's not like you need a headstone to remember him. As others have said donating the bench in his memory may be a better option and you don't have to worry about the issues with the grave.

stillcrazy wrote: »

Think its the wifes decision on what happens to the grave & not his other family, based on a friends experience a few years ago.

I suppose it depends on who's name the plot is in, it could very well be his parents thereby his wife wouldn't have a say on what is put on the grave (or the otherway around).

Toots

chamlis wrote: »

Op you should check neighbouring headstones to see if there are ones with dates much newer than your buddy's.
Depending on the type of land the graveyard is on, there is a period of time needed before erecting a gravestone after the person is buried. I believe it's usually a year (4 years does seem excessive), but I'd check the other headstones around it to be sure before mentioning to anyone.

I think it depends on whether or not there's already 'foundations' in for headstones. My mum's parents are buried in a graveyard that is fairly new and was planned out, and along each row of plots is a line of concrete 'foundation' that each headstone can be put straight onto. We had a headstone up within 6 months on the grave. However, my Dad's father is buried in a different cemetery, and although the family wanted a headstone ASAP, when we enquired, we were told it'll be a minimum of 2 years (possibly longer) before we can put one up.

What you could do is sound it out with some of your close mates re: putting something on the grave like a kneeling stone or something, and then approach his wife or parents and say that ye'd like to put something there for your buddy, and would that be OK with them. They might then mention the headstone, or they might choose not to. I would be careful about asking why the headstone's not there though, because it could cause upset. As others have said, there could be other factors at play too. The idea of the bench is lovely also. He was very lucky to have had a friend like you, best of luck with whatever you decide to do.

Culchie

Toots* wrote: »

I think it depends on whether or not there's already 'foundations' in for headstones. My mum's parents are buried in a graveyard that is fairly new and was planned out, and along each row of plots is a line of concrete 'foundation' that each headstone can be put straight onto. We had a headstone up within 6 months on the grave. However, my Dad's father is buried in a different cemetery, and although the family wanted a headstone ASAP, when we enquired, we were told it'll be a minimum of 2 years (possibly longer) before we can put one up.

What you could do is sound it out with some of your close mates re: putting something on the grave like a kneeling stone or something, and then approach his wife or parents and say that ye'd like to put something there for your buddy, and would that be OK with them. They might then mention the headstone, or they might choose not to. I would be careful about asking why the headstone's not there though, because it could cause upset. As others have said, there could be other factors at play too. The idea of the bench is lovely also. He was very lucky to have had a friend like you, best of luck with whatever you decide to do.

Thanks ... would a bar stool or two be inappropiate?:)

Seriously, thanks folks, I think myself and a couple of the lads can organise something now, without having to go near the headstone issue.

As has been mentioned by a few posters ... what I think and what I know are two different things (as I've never brought up the subject with his wife, or his family)... there may be several reasons why the headstone hasn't been erected yet.

Shelli

We had the beer garden of our local pub dedicated to a close friend, the manager agreed and had a plaque and everything put up.....it's where we all hung out all the time, and had great memories of our friend in that place.

Don't worry about something be "appropriate", just do something that brings back the good memories

kelle

Culchie, I am very sorry to read about your grief.

My parents died very near to each other 4 years ago. They were young, had so much to live for and were starting to enjoy life but sadly the awful "C" word took them away.
It was awful to visit their grave, but I felt better knowing there was just clay between me and them - I felt I could connect better with them. My aunts felt the same. We didn't want a headstone because the grave would need to be cemented over and that felt like they would be away from us, if you know what I mean. Maybe your friend's family feel that way.

However, we finally erected one recently. And I'm delighted because the grave looks beautiful, and I still feel connected with them!

orestes

Culchie wrote: »

Thanks ... would a bar stool or two be inappropiate?:)

Not in the slightest, I think going with your gut on something that means something to his mates and would make him smile can not be inappropriate

BaZmO*

Why don't you contact the Wife or his parents (whichever you got on best with) and just casually mention that you were at his grave and noticed that there was no headstone and ask if it had been damaged. Play dumb, that way you're not being confrontational.

CDfm

BaZmO* wrote: »

Why don't you contact the Wife or his parents (whichever you got on best with) and just casually mention that you were at his grave and noticed that there was no headstone and ask if it had been damaged. Play dumb, that way you're not being confrontational.

There might be a simple explanation too and you could offer to help - I reckon you probably feel embarrassed at bringing it up with his wife.

tbh

Culchie wrote: »

Thanks ... would a bar stool or two be inappropiate?:)

Seriously, thanks folks, I think myself and a couple of the lads can organise something now, without having to go near the headstone issue.

As has been mentioned by a few posters ... what I think and what I know are two different things (as I've never brought up the subject with his wife, or his family)... there may be several reasons why the headstone hasn't been erected yet.

was this the first time you'd been to the grave? it may be a temporary situation.

LegacyUser

tbh wrote: »

was this the first time you'd been to the grave? it may be a temporary situation.

You know sometimes people just dont have the money and are afraid to ask for help.

tbh

true, but also sometimes people have a temporary headstone that they need to replace, stuff like that.

LegacyUser

It could be a case that his wife and family haven't fully accepted his death and aren't ready to put up a headstone.

Nallandnanyways

Culchie wrote: »

Seriously, thanks folks, I think myself and a couple of the lads can organise something now, without having to go near the headstone issue.

I thought the bench idea was excellent and in the circumstances possibly best to find an alternative way to honour his passing.

But you can also honour his memory by reaching out to the people he left behind, his parents and his wife & kids. Ok, they may not like each other very much anymore, but he no doubt loved them all a hell of a lot.

Difficult one to do I know (Ive done it.. several times ), but your friend obviously meant a lot to you and you would be amazed what a difference a few choice words can make; why not call out for a cuppa with his folks and let them know that you miss your friend but remember him fondly - they'll love to hear that they can be of the son they raised. Or call to see if his wife fancies a pint or coffee, or for you to call round to see the kids? She might love to hear how much she and his kids meant to him (or whatever)?

Ive lost several people very close to me, one in particular was my Mum, and after the initial flurry of condolences disperse, you are left alone with your grief to mourn. Somebody subtly reminding you that they share your sorrow and feel some of your pain can raise your spirits and be very comforting. Plus, listening to both parties will (probably) give you an immediate insight as to what the issue is with the headstone and, who knows, you may be even able to mediate/assist in some way. And yes, tact and discretion would be pivotal there, but what better way to honour your friend and your memory of him?

Either way, if youre going to have a commemorative bench or something, you would be best off letting the family/wife know in advance to let them share their thoughts about it with you and/or attend the unveiling etc. You wouldnt want them to hear after the fact that youd organised a memorial for him.

Culchie wrote: »

Thanks ... would a bar stool or two be inappropiate?:)

I cant think of a nicer way to be remembered by my buddies.

kelle

I was at the graveyard yesterday and I saw plaques like these when I thought of your post! You could buy one between your mates, have your names on it and place it on his grave - it would be as good as a minio-headstone.

3greenrizla's

Culchie wrote: »

Thanks ... would a bar stool or two be inappropiate?:)

Seriously, thanks folks, I think myself and a couple of the lads can organise something now, without having to go near the headstone issue.

I think you should have a chat with the lads and see how much € ye can raise between ye & then approach the family/widow to explain that ye would like to do something in his memory & if that was a contribution towards a headstone ye would be more than happy.

when is your friends anniversary/birthday - it might be a good time to approach his family.

I hope everything works out, please tread carefully (i am sure you know that already)

messygirl

Maybe you could sit down with the family and gently sa "i was at x grave last week. i really miss him.. i noticed he doesnt have a gravestone, is there anthing we can do to help? im sure a few friends would pitch in for the cost" they may not be able to afford it,maybe the wife and family are fighting over who has to pay/puts it up/picks it, but if there is a valid reason fair enough if not you should know about it if you feel that strongly. friends are like family these days.

if they can but aren't then i say screw the lot of them and try and organise something yourself. if parents/wife can't be bothered to put up a headstone for the sake of a fight/money (or wahtever petty reason) that doesnt say a lot about them