need help with kyosho 2 speed transmission

kev030

hi just fitted a 2 speed transmission upgrade to my kyosho fazer problem is at full throttle the car is really slow even slower than it was when it was a single speed , i followed the fitting instructions everthing looks fine tho a cant hear the 2nd gear kick in av tryed moving the 2mm allen key in and out the transmission but nothing,anybody had this problem ? or any idea wots up its driving me mad

goldwing

you will need to re tune the engine, it won't reach second gear if it's not tuned properly

mugenextreme

Kev030 if the car is slower to get moving its possible that your car is actually in second all of the time hence the slow accellerating. I am not familiar with the 2 speed of a fazer but i have ran other kyosho's (rrr and evolva's). First thing is to rule this out the 2 speed being engaged to do this screw the adjustor in completely, this should cancel any chance of second gear kicking in and at least you will know you are in first what speed and acceleration it will have so you will notice the change. Once that is done Run it view the reaction of the car and then go back to the adjuster on the 2 speed and screw is out half a turn put the car back to gather and run it again , repeat till you find you notice the change. If nothing happen then like Coolwings has said engine may need adjustment also. If the car was running quite fast it should still engage somewhere.

Also for acceleration check the gear(plastic gear) and pinion(metal gear) sizes for 1st gear on the new two speed setup verus what was all ready on the car. If the number of teeth have changed the ratio for the gearing would have changed and it could be possible that the new gear ratio is set more for final topend speed rather then acceleration in 1st .
Hope this helps a bit

goldwing

mugenextreme wrote: »

like Coolwings has said engine may need adjustment also......

Coolwings? what? where?:rolleyes:

kev030

something weird going on with this thread there was a few replys to my question the other day a thanked the ppl for help and my reply and theres have disappered? neva had that happen on a forum, anyways thanks again for the help ppl al try what everybodys says and get back on here let u know how a go

kev030

hi mugenextreme, had a look at the original spur gear when it was a single speed its a 39Tand the original clutch bell was 17T, the 2speed upgrade is 43T low, 38T high,Clutch bell 13T-18T, kyosho say it should take off faster and be faster at the top end

mugenextreme

goldwing wrote: »

Coolwings? what? where?:rolleyes:

Sry my mistake, please forgive me

kev030

finally stripped the car put it all back together ,had a fiddle with the 2mm allan screw managed to get it to change up but the car is still really slow when its on the ground it never seems to bulid up much speed a dunno whats up the carb settings seems ok , getting that bad am thinkin about going back to a single spur gear

mugenextreme

Hmm sry mate but with out seeing it going i wouldnt really dont know. If its changing and you reckon engine is ok then i am not sure. A 13t pinion and 38 tooth plastic gear should be better then your original setup for take off speed. Weird

kev030

av started to wonder is the engine knackered? it seems ok tho it sounds a wee bit different on idle noticed when u spit on the heatsink it sizzles like hell just after a short run so it seems to be overheating , a tryed putting the setting back to standard on the carb now it wont start at all, the pull cord is really hard to come out aswell ,a thought it was flooded so took the glow plug out and held it upside down but not a drop of fuel came out ,one thing that does come to mine just before the gear was fitted a started using model technics BigBang20 fuel with that siqual stuff in it , got to say the it seems really oily stuff the exhaust was spitting it out, before that the car ran great on byron 20% fuel , how do u tell if a nitro engine is knackered ?

ARGINITE

You might need to re-tune the engine for the new fuel.

Also on another note I find Model technics fuel to be complete rubbish, stay away from it and go back to the Byron 20% fuel it is so much better, runs a lot cooler.

mugenextreme

THat car is a .15 engine should u not be using 16% fuel in it. Have u any way to temp the engine at all.

coolwings

You have not provided enough relevant information to the forum for us to solve your difficulty.
So the answers are "clutching at straws" but can not logically reason out the symptoms and emphatically tell you a "cure".

A couple of the gaps are:

- You have said you installed the new 2-spd gearbox, but never told us how it ran before that. Consequently we don't know if your engine is ok, new, running-in tight, run-in loose, or old lacking compression.
- We don’t know if you how to tune it. What is your experience level?
- You have said the car goes slowly with the new part installed. But you have not made clear if this is with the engine revving high or low. You should be able to tell if it is in low or high gear just by the sound.
- You asked "how do you know if an engine is knackered?"
- You stated "not a drop of fuel came out of the glowplug"
- You say you are using 20% juice but asked the above two beginner questions, however: 20% is considered as an expert fuel potent enough to destroy your engine immediately if everything is not set up correctly and definitely not suitable for beginners. This doesn't figure.

May I ask before we go further:
Is this your first nitro model?
What glowplug are your using: (the brand make is immaterial). Is it hot, medium, cool or cold?
Have you tuned the main jet lean, rich or neutral?
Have you tuned the idle jet lean, rich or neutral?
If you don’t understand the above two questions please mention this.
The fuel choice of 20% nitro .... why 20%? In an entry level engine this is "track fuel" where the engine itself is consumed as well as the fuel for a very short working life. I would guess that single use of 20% of any make will likely skim the liners and prematurely age your engine by permanent reduction of compression, thereby requiring new pistons and liners.
I suspect your engine is designed for 5% - 16% nitro, and therefore What does your manual recommend? I’m talking nitro% here, not make of fuel.
When the engine starts:
- does it race fast and get into gear instantly
- does it gurgle and refuse to rev up swiftly
- does it rev up swiftly but cut out unexpectedly after it revs up to speed?

coolwings

kev030 wrote: »

... got to say the it seems really oily stuff the exhaust was spitting it out ....

Did you know there is 10% - 20% oil mixed into all model fuel? the oil is designed to come out the exhaust, taking the heat out as well ..... Not seeing oil spitting out the exhaust is a problem.
Also, do you know competition racing fuels like Byron 20 and Big Bang 20 have a lower oil content than the fuel usually recommended for entry level engines, and you have extra heat to tune away (or live with).
Those competition fuels work best in engines with ceramic bearings, and very high quality steel, like Novarossi, Serpent, Picco, and other very expensive makes.
For standard engines (unless remedial measures are taken like tuning very rich, careful selection of tuned pipe exhaust, etc) they can be used to produce extra power, but normally at a tradeoff of shorter engine life, and replacing piston & liners periodically.

kev030 wrote: »

... before that the car ran great on byron 20% fuel , how do u tell if a nitro engine is knackered ?

The symptoms of a "knackered engine" .....
- does not start as easy as it once did
- may not start at all unless a hotter glowplug is fitted
- may not start at all unless higher nitro fuel is used
- needs to be set leaner than before
- low accelleration
- behaves like it used to when tuned too rich, even when now tuned lean
- a new piston an liner set turns the clock back
- tuning is hair trigger where it used to be a wider range of adjustment

So you see from the symptoms above.... your choice of Byron 20 fuel may have peened a layer off the liners and permanently dropped your compression causing early demise or premature aging whichever term you prefer. Staying on 20% nitro beyond the 2nd tank of juice finished it, if you leaned it out. After that it needs high nitro to go at all.

Note: every single one of those symptoms of an old engine can also be produced by maladjustment of a new engine! So we have to decide which direction to look for the problem's source. That's why Mugenextreme asked about running temperatures, Goldwing asked about tuning, and why I asked some questions relating to experience in nitro models in the post above.

kev030

think uv guessed this is my first nitro car ,ano u need oil in the mix am not totally daft and a havent ran the car to lean its always had the proper trail of smoke coming from it,and has ran perfect starts first time never cuts out also took it easy ran the engine in , a got the car from sto models they sent me a bottle of bryon 20% fuel with it and the car ran brill with that, a then used 16% quickfire and it ran like crap , went to the local model shop the guy tuned it for me for 20% bigbang he never told me after 2tanks it would knacker the engine av never heard that before? anyway after i fitted the 2speed the car sounded just as it had before tho just not revin as high and it went slower than it had when it was running well , maybe the high torque manafold a fitted has worn the engine out tho av hardley used the car 10 mins at a time , i have never tryed to lean the mix and get it to the point when its wearing the engine only guy that tuned it was the model shop, when it wouldnt start i put it back to the settings in my manual now it wont start like its flooded, thats why i took the glow plug out and turned the car upside down but no fuel came out that not what u do ? u said thats a beginners thing to do ? am just wondering is it just coinsidence me fitting the 2speed and the engines worn thats all

kev030

kev030 wrote: »

think uv guessed this is my first nitro car ,ano u need oil in the mix am not totally daft and a havent ran the car to lean its always had the proper trail of smoke coming from it,and has ran perfect starts first time never cuts out also took it easy ran the engine in , a got the car from sto models they sent me a bottle of bryon 20% fuel with it and the car ran brill with that, a then used 16% quickfire and it ran like crap , went to the local model shop the guy tuned it for me for 20% bigbang he never told me after 2tanks it would knacker the engine av never heard that before? anyway after i fitted the 2speed the car sounded just as it had before tho just not revin as high and it went slower than it had when it was running well , maybe the high torque manafold a fitted has worn the engine out tho av hardley used the car 10 mins at a time , i have never tryed to lean the mix and get it to the point when its wearing the engine only guy that tuned it was the model shop, when it wouldnt start i put it back to the settings in my manual now it wont start like its flooded, thats why i took the glow plug out and turned the car upside down but no fuel came out that not what u do ? u said thats a beginners thing to do ? a see what ur getting at now u know what a mean a didnt actually mean the fuel came out the glowplug think u know a mean the engine am just wondering is it just coinsidence me fitting the 2speed and the engines worn thats all

sorry for not giving every detail on the planet mate a aint a pro thats why am asking for help

coolwings

Don't be offended about the points I raised, it's all to get you sorted as quickly as possible. :-)

Well it seems like it went ok after you got it tuned?
And only stopped going well after fitting the twin speed gearbox?
Now if it was revving lower after that, and nothing else changed, this sounds like it's in high gear since then. The extra load of high gear is the same as eg going up a hill. More work load results in a lower speed.
In this case, the post above referring to adjustment of the grubscrew to lock it in low gear, and then relax the gearchange incrementally, should get you sorted out.
once you have less load on it will speed up.
Then you work on getting the changeover to high gear adjusted better.

BTW 20% nitro does not knacker the engine itself. It's how you adjust it with 20% nitro - because with 20% there is less room for tuning errors, that's all. Racers are all using high nitro, and will not win races unless they use it.

The liquid fuel in the glowplug bit only happens when the engine is flooded. Usually it will not start then. It results from tuning over-rich. My concern is that you shouldn't use high performance fuel until after you are aware and totally sure of what tuning setting is rich vs what setting is too rich.
I believe those lessons can be learned at a lower cost while using low nitro fuel for experimenting. (Harder to do harm if you tune it too extreme ).

One thing ... after running in on high nitro, every engine runs worse on lower nitro fuel afterwards. That's why you didn't like 16% after having 20%, even though 16% is closer to your engines designed spec.
Putting in the 1st 20% was inappropriate, especially so for running it in. We might run a 400 euro engine in on 20%, (probably 10% first even then) not a basic engine which is designed to run in on 5%.
After making that beginning you are forced by the engine to keep using high nitro whether you like it or not, the pistons are already peened to fit 20% settings and you can't go back. A bit like breathing ordinary air is "bad" if you have been on pure oxygen before that, but the air is still the "right stuff".
The guy in the shop would know this, know the present and future of your engine based on the running in it you have already given it, and would recommend to stay with the nitro level you already had, primarily for the reason that with "more suitable" fuel you probably would not be able to start it.

Hope this helps and explains some.

.

dan2215

coolwings wrote: »

Don't be offended about the points I raised, it's all to get you sorted as quickly as possible. :-)

Well it seems like it went ok after you got it tuned?
And only stopped going well after fitting the twin speed gearbox?
Now if it was revving lower after that, and nothing else changed, this sounds like it's in high gear since then. The extra load of high gear is the same as eg going up a hill. More work load results in a lower speed.
In this case, the post above referring to adjustment of the grubscrew to lock it in low gear, and then relax the gearchange incrementally, should get you sorted out.
once you have less load on it will speed up.
Then you work on getting the changeover to high gear adjusted better.

BTW 20% nitro does not knacker the engine itself. It's how you adjust it with 20% nitro - because with 20% there is less room for tuning errors, that's all. Racers are all using high nitro, and will not win races unless they use it.

The liquid fuel in the glowplug bit only happens when the engine is flooded. Usually it will not start then. It results from tuning over-rich. My concern is that you shouldn't use high performance fuel until after you are aware and totally sure of what tuning setting is rich vs what setting is too rich.
I believe those lessons can be learned at a lower cost while using low nitro fuel for experimenting. (Harder to do harm if you tune it too extreme ).

One thing ... after running in on high nitro, every engine runs worse on lower nitro fuel afterwards. That's why you didn't like 16% after having 20%, even though 16% is closer to your engines designed spec.
Putting in the 1st 20% was inappropriate, especially so for running it in. We might run a 400 euro engine in on 20%, (probably 10% first even then) not a basic engine which is designed to run in on 5%.
After making that beginning you are forced by the engine to keep using high nitro whether you like it or not, the pistons are already peened to fit 20% settings and you can't go back. A bit like breathing ordinary air is "bad" if you have been on pure oxygen before that, but the air is still the "right stuff".
The guy in the shop would know this, know the present and future of your engine based on the running in it you have already given it, and would recommend to stay with the nitro level you already had, primarily for the reason that with "more suitable" fuel you probably would not be able to start it.

Hope this helps and explains some.

.

Sorry but im going to have to disagree i originally ran my brand new gz 15 in on 20% tornado fuel i now use 16% model techniks and the acceleration is unbelievable i kyself need the 2 speed upgrade because the accelerating force it creates is constantly shredding my tyres and forces the car to constantly drift under heavy acceleration

Plug

dan2215 wrote: »

Sorry but im going to have to disagree i originally ran my brand new gz 15 in on 20% tornado fuel i now use 16% model techniks and the acceleration is unbelievable i kyself need the 2 speed upgrade because the accelerating force it creates is constantly shredding my tyres and forces the car to constantly drift under heavy acceleration

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