Fire doors

Anywhichwaybut

Quick query in relation to fire doors
This relates to a school building. Now an architect will be onboard shortly to work out the specifics if this goes ahead but for a general budgeting idea and to allow some provisional ideas to progress, here goes,

We have been instructed by Health & safety people from Dep. of education to consider the installation of fire doors within the school building. Now I gather they are expensive and as these will be covered out of general funding, we have to approach it in a bit by bit fashion. Their suggestion was to fit doors to each room off the main access corridor as a starting point and that as long as they were the proper spec, we would be building towards a complete upgrade of the fire safety side of the buiding.
There are about 7 doors, 3 class room, 2 toilets, staff room and store off this hallway which has an exit door at either end.
So if anybody could give an indication of what would be involved in this project, I would be greatful.
Will we need to apply for a fire safety cert before these works can be attempted or can we simply proceed as we are simply improving on an old building?
Would we have to include other fire safety items if applying for a fire safety cert, i.e, to bring the whole building up to a modern day spec in order to obtain a fire cert? and if so would we then have to complete all those works immediately?
Obviously the architect would be able to answer all this but I possibly wont take it any further if a cert is needed as its certainly not feasible for this summer break if cert is needed.
Any info appreciated.

tba

You will need to apply for a fire certificate.

The Health & safety people from Dep. of education have no authority to suggest the rating of fire doors. Approval rests with the fire officer in your local authority. The architect will offer advice on these issues, I suggest you meet with them to discuss it as a hour with them will clear up issues (make it clear what your budget is)

this is the document that will be referenced for a lot of fire design

http://www.environ.ie/en/Publications/DevelopmentandHousing/BuildingStandards/FileDownLoad,1640,en.pdf

sinnerboy

You can make such improvements without a fire cert . Budget cost - €750-800 per door fitted to include frame , architrave , leaf ( the bit that opens and closes ) hinges , locks and door closer .

Personally however - I would prioritise the installation of a state of the art fire alarm system together with a fire safety awareness campaign to include regular ( say every 10 weeks ) fire drills .

• early warning of fire by the alarm
• an awareness of the speed which smoke spreads
• the awareness of the importance of brisk un panicked and safe escape

will save more lives than a thousand fire doors

.

Anywhichwaybut

sinnerboy wrote: »

You can make such improvements without a fire cert . Budget cost - €750-800 per door fitted to include frame , architrave , leaf ( the bit that opens and closes ) hinges , locks and door closer .

Personally however - I would prioritise the installation of a state of the art fire alarm system together with a fire safety awareness campaign to include regular ( say every 10 weeks ) fire drills .

• early warning of fire by the alarm
• an awareness of the speed which smoke spreads
• the awareness of the importance of brisk un panicked and safe escape

will save more lives than a thousand fire doors

.

Thanks,

Drills etc are carried out regularily.
We have what I believe is a good fire alarm due to recent rewire

So all I need to do now is get architect and he/she will work out the spec of the doors required (half hour or hour rating or whatever is needed).
We feel we should go ahead with these doors as the current ones rattle and are just about finished after about 40 years.
My own opinion was that we should be able to go ahead with just improving on the current setup as we werent changing any door locations etc without the fire cert but then again I wouldnt really know either way.

sinnerboy

Your own opinion is correct

Poor Uncle Tom

tba wrote: »

You will need to apply for a fire certificate.

The Health & safety people from Dep. of education have no authority to suggest the rating of fire doors. Approval rests with the fire officer in your local authority. The architect will offer advice on these issues, I suggest you meet with them to discuss it as a hour with them will clear up issues (make it clear what your budget is)

this is the document that will be referenced for a lot of fire design

http://www.environ.ie/en/Publications/DevelopmentandHousing/BuildingStandards/FileDownLoad,1640,en.pdf

A letter of cover from the Chief Fire Officer for the upgrade of the doors will suffice for the Dept.

I think the most referenced guide for Educational Buildings is Building Bulletin 7, Dept of Education and Science. (UK) I have been asked to make the last couple of Fire Safety Certificate applications based on this publication over Part B.

No6

You should give you local fire officer a ring, I'm sure they would be only too happy to help. If you are only replacing existing doors with new doors, wheather they are fire doors or not you do not need a fire cert. It is only where you make a material alteration (move a wall, make a new door ope etc.) that you would require a fire cert. Building Bulletin 7 and part B would be relevant in that case although Building Bulletin 7 had been replaced in the UK, I'm not sure what its called now so check with your fire officer that its still ok for use in Ireland but only if you need to make a fire cert application.

Anywhichwaybut

Hi guys,
Spoke to Architect today and your advice is spot on. Only if breaking through a new door etc or changing the way the building was used re movements of kids etc would we need to go for a cert was what he said (I think).
He is going to give me some sketches of door types this week. It just dawned on me now, can I have loads of glass in the doors because Im just thinking here, if they are fire doors, loads of glass wouldnt make much sense, would it?
Architect will do all this obviously but just thinking here now that a full length narrow glass panel would be nice. The existing doors we have only have glass in top half. can I have glass lower down?

No6

Yes you can have glass in fire doors but it will have to be either gerogian wired glass subject to limitations as set out in PART B or insulated fire resisting glass which is about 500 per m² just for the glass!!!