My Rant-no benefits for me

bog master

Where to start! Single Parent ( male) 2 youngest living with me and going to college.
Self employed working in an off shoot of the building trade, hence not much being earned. Separated since 06 and sold family home in 07, proceeds in the bank. (under 100k). With my income being drastically reduced during this recession , I found myself dipping regularly into the nest egg, which my hopes were to buy a house with
when mortgages can be gotten and the economy improves.

Maybe our much vaunted Social Welfare System might help????? Start with One Parent Family Payment, send in all paperwork and wait 4 months. By the way, average earnings are now below minimum wage. 4 months later, I am now officially on One Parent Family Payment, all of €1.64 per week. Apparently my savings, which are the proceeds of the family home are counted as means, as in worth €214.00 per week. Have appealed the decision, as if the ex had claimed the children she would receive substantially more as she bought a house and the family home regardless of worth or lack or mortgage is disregarded. Appealed in March, within two days of the decision, rang end of May to check on appeal. Appeals office had not received file from local SW office, and average waiting time for appeal to be heard is 22 weeks.
So will probably be the guts of one year from applying, initial decision and appeal.

Next, maybe Rent Supplement-NO-savings again screw me.
Medical Card-NO-savings again screw me.

Maybe just give it all up and claim the dole-NO-savings screw me again.

So now, feel so p***** off, maybe just take 20 holidays, get the new car, trip around the world, spend it all and then ask for my dole, my council house, medical card, fuel allowance etc etc and be a burden on the state, when all I am asking now is a small dig out in these tough times.

IsThatSo?

That is rough, and sounds unreasonable. I know that savings does count towards earnings as in €1 for first €10k and that kind of thing (an example only) but for your nest egg to be the equivalent of most of the OPFA seems excessive. That is just my opinion though, I couldn't find the guidelines to look over it.

Have you considered this:

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/social-welfare/social-welfare-payments/social-welfare-payments-to-families-and-children/family_income_supplement

The wait time for processing is about 2 months, it might help in the meantime.

This will help you calculate if you qualify or not. If you think you are borderline send in the application anyway, its worth a shot.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/References/worksheets/worksheet-how-to-calculate-your-family-income-supplement

CiaranC

You have 100k in the bank, why would you get benefits?

Sleipnir

CiaranC wrote: »

You have 100k in the bank, why would you get benefits?

+1.

"You have a hundred grand in the bank?"
"Yeah, but I don't want to spend that. I want to keep it and claim off the state instead. I'll probably use it to buy a house when things pick up"

bog master

Yes I have less than 100k, dipping into it every month. I dont own a house and have no hope of getting a mortgage at this stage. I have worked all my life and never claimed s/w and have paid my taxes. That money is all I have after 35 years of work. Now, is it better I can a helping hand from the State,until myself and this country gets back on its feet or continually use that cash to live, so then I can get my council house/dole/med card etc?

Do you have a house? Whats is worth? Would you like it if the value of the house constituted means? As I pointed out, the ex, who bought a house, would be entitled to s/w, why am I being treated differently.

bog master

Thanks for the link but self employed do not qualify for FIS

petes

Sleipnir wrote: »

+1.

"You have a hundred grand in the bank?"
"Yeah, but I don't want to spend that. I want to keep it and claim off the state instead. I'll probably use it to buy a house when things pick up"

So now you aren't entitled to have money in the bank. I have to say as the OP has worked all their life they should be entitled to some support.

It's the people defrauding the system that should be found.

Sleipnir

Because you've got a hundred grand therefore, you don't need social welfare. You don't need a helping hand, at the moment. You just want one so you don't have to spend your savings.

Why should anyone work to live if they can get council house/dole/med card etc?

Yeah I have a house but like many, I've no idea what it's worth. A lot less then I paid for it anyway.

Your ex bought a house, so earns money to pay for it.
You do not earn money to pay for a house so you think the state should. The state says "you've got 100k, use that"
and you say
"no I want you to pay for my accomodation until things pick up and then I'll use the 100grand to buy a house for myself"

Sleipnir

Insurgent wrote: »

So now you aren't entitled to have money in the bank. I have to say as the OP has worked all their life they should be entitled to some support.

It's the people defrauding the system that should be found.

Yeah, that's what I said, you're not entitled to have any money in the bank.:rolleyes:

so if I have a million in the bank I should be able to claim?
Half a million?
What about a quarter of a million? what's the threshold?

If you read in the paper tonight about someone who was getting rent allowance, single parents allowance, med card etc and had 100 grand in the bank, and they were convicted of fraud you'd be saying;
"that's wrong, he entitled to his savings"?

You wouldn't think that that was defrauding the system?

petes

Sleipnir wrote: »

Because you've got a hundred grand therefore, you don't need social welfare. You don't need a helping hand, at the moment. You just want one so you don't have to spend your savings.

Why should anyone work to live if they can get council house/dole/med card etc?

Yeah I have a house but like many, I've no idea what it's worth. A lot less then I paid for it anyway.

Your ex bought a house, so earns money to pay for it.
You do not earn money to pay for a house so you think the state should. The state says "you've got 100k, use that"
and you say
"no I want you to pay for my accomodation until things pick up and then I'll use the 100grand to buy a house for myself"

I can see where you are coming from and I know there are worse off people out there. Does paying taxes for years not count for something.

I know if I saved a load of money from working and was laid off I'd claim.

Granted the OP has proceeds from a house.

bog master

Insurgent-please read the my original post. I am working, I am not looking for full dole/benefits etc. I am looking for some assistance from the State to get thru this hard time.

An asset is an asset in my book. But the system excludes the family home.So if another person owns their home outright and attempts to claim any sort of benefit, does the state say, no way, sell that house. What is the difference, may I ask you?

KTRIC

Oh this gets better,

Where'd I put that popcorn !! :pac:

Xiney

The state doesn't make you sell your family home because you live in it, and you need somewhere to live.

However, if you owned two houses, the second one would be considered capital and would be included in the means test.

bog master

Insurgent apologies, msg was directed to Sleipnir

Sleipnir

bog master wrote: »

so then I can get my council house/dole/med card etc?

I mentioned dole only because you did.

bog master

Yes, indeed I did, perhaps not worded properly. Because at times I feel the system is treating me unfairly,seeing my self employed income more than halved from last year, no chance of getting a mortgage at this point in time,I dearly want my own house, and watching my nest egg for that house slowly disappear, makes me want to at times throw in the towel, close the business and live off the state. Can you understand that?

Sleipnir

I can, I really can. I don't think it's fair that self-employed people don't get any help if their income drops, even though they pay taxes throughout.

It's unfair that unmarried couples are treated as strangers under the law for tax, inheritance etc, unless they try to claim off the state in which case, they're incomes etc are then considered jointly
I know if I lose my job, I'll basically get nothing from the government because my girlfriend will still be earning. That wouldn't save us though.

It's unfair that they're says "cherish our children" after the child abuse report recently, and then are closing wards in Children's hospial in Crumlin two weeks later.

bank bailouts - unfair
developer bailouts - unfair.

etc, etc, etc.

You've got 100k, lucky you. I know you want to keep it so you can buy a house but you just might not be able to and the state won't pay for you to keep it for one.

bog master

Well said and I agree with all you say.And yes I am lucky and fortunate, but I feel only by highlighting these areas will change ever come for the better and make the system more fair and equitable for all.

But, feels good to get it off my chest!

bushykangaroo

I can see the point the man is making, it does seem unfair and a little bit stupid too. He has worked all his life and paid taxes, worked hard and saved a bit of money. He probably sarcificed a lot of luxuries and didnt waste money in order to save the money. Fair enough he sold his house, but he still saved to pay the mortgage etc... So he for not <snip> squandering all his money away when he was working, he is now being peanilised for having the cop on to have saved some money. Surely he is entitled to some support, that scale €1-10000 thing doesnt be long putting you well out of the requirements to get support if you have any sort of a lump saved at all. Its seems a bit thick, although i can see obviously someone with a million shouldnt get support but we're talking under 100k here and the man has a family, theres needs to be a cap allright, but it should be over a 100k.

There are people who never worked a day in their lives and dont want to, spent every penny they ever got on drink and other waste etc,,, and yet they automatically get the full amount and medical cards and the whole works. Whereas someone who had a bit of cop on to save a bit get screwed! :mad:

Nermal

CiaranC wrote: »

You have 100k in the bank, why would you get benefits?

Why bother saving if it excludes you from social benefits? We generally view saving as virtuous, why disincentivise it?

greendom

IMO its wrong that a self-employed person earning the same as an employed person is not entitled to the same FIS. What is the justifcation for this policy?

rathgorma

While i fully respect that the state cannot hand out benefits to people with substantial savings, there is still an inherent unfairness to it all. I have saved 40,000 euro over the last 20 years while my workmates spent their money in the pub. It looks like we will be made redundant shortly. Here is the unfairness. I will be means tested on my savings and redundancy. So the Gov. is basically saying to me "spend your money quickly and come back when you're broke". Personally, I will spend 1 year on prsi benefits and another year on a VTOS course. That gives myself and a dodgy solicitor 2 years to drain my account..

Jenroche

Here's an idea. Take your money out of the bank, stuff it in your matress. Sit in the sun for a few days then go in and tell them you spent it on the holiday of a lifetime and that you're broke.

Jen ;->

rathgorma

Nice try Jen but they require receipts for every thing. But i guarantee if i hit the dole in 2.5 years my account will be empty but my mattrass will be full. But it seems wrong that redundancy is means tested.

jeckle

I can totally sympathise with the OP.

Of course none of us really know his exact situation/financial affairs etc.

Following on from that he states that he is entitled to One Parent Family Payment (pittance as it is but there is a recognised entitlement & recognised by HSE/DSFA), this hopefully will/might work in his favour.

Quite a lot of means tested SW/HSE payments clearly state that the proceeds from the sale of the Family Home is disregarded. Not knowing the particular ins & outs of the situation, & having briefly sort of looked at what I think is the OP's situation is on www.welfare.ie , & judging by the OP's posts (he does seem to know/recognise his entitlements), I firmly believe that he should not be penalised for simply being a responsible adult.

I would certainly hope that, having established the fact that he is entitled to One Parent Family Payment, that this would work firmly in his favour with regard to secondary benefits (Mortgage Interest Supplement in particular), & I'd encourage him to fight this all the way.

Best of luck coz IMO you deserve it, no, IMO you are entitled to it OP.