Petrol Retailing

Dazzler88

I was recently thinking of renting a local Petrol station.It doesnt have any shop facilities just Petrol/Diesel pumps.does anyone have any advice for me???all suggestions are welcome.:D:D

.Longshanks.

You need to talk to Hammertime (think that correct) who is around here at times

helimachoptor

You'll make very little if it doesnt have a shop.

Dazzler88

ya i have been advised that but what i plan to do is buy my fuel in bulk and then store it.for example if i buy 30,000l today for 104.4c and store it that same fuel will have shot up in price in two weeks time,therefore increasing my margin.i also plan to start delievering Kerosene come winter time.any advice??

Gypo

Although probably not likely in the present market but what if the price of oil falls substantially? Sounds like a risky business plan to me!

Dazzler88

it is definetly risky but how else do you think all the other independent distributors around the country are surviving.Their is a lot of distributors who sell Kerosene/Diesel/Petrol from their depots and dont have shop units attached.

EPM

To have any hope of attracting people in you would need to be substantially cheaper than the oposition and have at least basic shop items - drinks, sweets etc

JHMEG

What part of the country is it in? Is there much passing trade?

Gypo

Dazzler88 wrote: »

it is definetly risky but how else do you think all the other independent distributors around the country are surviving.Their is a lot of distributors who sell Kerosene/Diesel/Petrol from their depots and dont have shop units attached.

I don't work in the industry so I don't know how independent distributors make their money, I was just commenting on the fact that you mentioned your plan was to buy in bulk and hope the price of fuel rose.

The existing didstributors would also have an existing customer base which you would need to attract to your business.

Dazzler88

thanks for your comments.i tink ur right about it being a risky business.my plan is probably more of an idea rather than a business plan.the only thing is the place im looking to rent is very cheap and it would have few overheads,all the garages nearby are franchised to the likes of Topaz,Texaco etc. so i wud def be able to sell fuel cheaper than them and the station is also suitated on a very busy national route.Thanks for ur advice.do u knw anything about the laws governing the transportation of Petrol/Diesel...I know you need a Hazchem license but dnt knw much else..

fm

Dazzler88 wrote: »

ya i have been advised that but what i plan to do is buy my fuel in bulk and then store it.for example if i buy 30,000l today for 104.4c and store it that same fuel will have shot up in price in two weeks time,therefore increasing my margin.i also plan to start delievering Kerosene come winter time.any advice??

would it not better to invest in the commodities stock market so if you are gambling on the price going up?

Dazzler88

fm wrote: »

would it not better to invest in the commodities stock market so if you are gambling on the price going up?

you have a good point there but id rather run a business that would not only make me profit but also consume my time..maybe im thinking of investing in the wrong sector..

Hagar

Dazzler88 wrote: »

the place im looking to rent is very cheap and it would have few overheads,all the garages nearby are franchised to the likes of Topaz,Texaco etc. so i wud def be able to sell fuel cheaper than them and the station is also suitated on a very busy national route.

Sounds like you have lots of local competition.
If the location is so good why is the present owner selling the petrol station? Is it not making him enough money?

Dazzler88

Hagar wrote: »

If the location is so good why is the present owner selling the petrol station?

the present owner bought it five years ago for tax purposes,he has a multi-millon aviation business and bought it to hide money from the taxman,he never bothered to run it as a business.

The Real B-man

Dazzler88 wrote: »

the present owner bought it five years ago for tax purposes,he has a multi-millon aviation business and bought it to hide money from the taxman,he never bothered to run it as a business.

Micheal O' Leary? :pac:;)

Matt Simis

Have you looked at BIoFuels, either direct sale or as an additive to petro-fuels?

Kartale

why not consider having no staff, just credit/debit card payment. Therefore reducing daily running costs, theft, dealing sick days etc.
This way you can charge less for fuel than competition and hope to sell in bulk. Initial set up prob more costly, but i see no reason to have staff if only selling fuel.
you can still be there when it suits you to keep an eye and your also operating 24 hour.
i seen such a facility on Old airport road recently, newly opened i think

Gypo

In New Zealand, the vast majority of petrol / diesel pumps had payment facilities built in (credit / debit card), so you never had to go into the shop to pay. Always thought it was a great idea and could work well back home.

Kartale

Kartale wrote: »

why not consider having no staff, just credit/debit card payment. Therefore reducing daily running costs, theft, dealing sick days etc.

One of the most popular and cheapest filling stations in Co. Galway is cash only.

Kartale

that doesnt mean a thing.
Cheapest = most popular, usually. Thats the object of OP plan. Im just saying it is achievable with no staff.
Anyway the name of station is http://www.greatgas.ie/main.htm
It says they supply diesel, but im sure other companies will supply you the petrol

Dazzler88

Kartale wrote: »

why not consider having no staff, just credit/debit card payment.

Thanks for the advice,i think this is a great idea.Im goin to do a bit of R&D in realtion to this.does any1 now how much Businesses get charged on Credit/Laser cards transactions???

Busta Hyman

also you do realise that your idea of buying in bulk and topaz,es idea of buying in bulk is VERY VERY different. your price per litre will in no way compete with what they get it at. there buying for 1000 stations and your buying for 1

Dazzler88

ya but u have to remember that Topaz are currently dearer than any other independent distributor.They are charging more because they arwe franchised and they sell their fuel from the refinery to the reratilers and then the retailer sells it to the public.Independent distributors buy it from the refinery and sell it direct to the customer.ill be cutting out the middle man(ie Topaz,Texaco etc.)

schoolbag2

Dazzler88 wrote: »

ya i have been advised that but what i plan to do is buy my fuel in bulk and then store it.for example if i buy 30,000l today for 104.4c and store it that same fuel will have shot up in price in two weeks time,therefore increasing my margin.i also plan to start delievering Kerosene come winter time.any advice??

and what happens when the price goes down?

Oil companies also demand payment almost imediately(esp to new operator) so that could be €15k starting of, plus rent, plus rent premium, plus your heaging oil truck.......

Basically youll make very little with a shop and nothing if you dont have a shop.

markpb

Dazzler88 wrote: »

Thanks for the advice,i think this is a great idea.Im goin to do a bit of R&D in realtion to this.does any1 now how much Businesses get charged on Credit/Laser cards transactions???

I think it's usually 20c for laser cards and between 2% and 3% for credit cards depending on volume. You'll also have to pay monthly merchant account fees and terminal rental fees. If it's un-supervised, I think things are different due to the higher risk profile.

schoolbag2

Dazzler88 wrote: »

the present owner bought it five years ago for tax purposes,he has a multi-millon aviation business and bought it to hide money from the taxman,he never bothered to run it as a business.

that doesnt make sense, you dont hide money from the tax man by buying property and leave a monster paper trail(this is how alot of people are getting stung by the single premuim revenue crackdown, basicaly revenue say to john i see you invested 100k in a single premium product, show me how you got the 100k and the tax you paid on it)

Dazzler88

Basically youll make very little with a shop and nothing if you dont have a shop

if der making very little with a shop,then how can retailers afford to have big forecourts with modern convenience stores attached.Ive never seen a run down Petrol station???

schoolbag2

Dazzler88 wrote: »

Basically youll make very little with a shop and nothing if you dont have a shop

if der making very little with a shop,then how can retailers afford to have big forecourts with modern convenience stores attached.Ive never seen a run down Petrol station???

How did car retailers build big showrooms, massive houses etc over the last few years?

Topaz delivered 2,500 less artic loads of oil(thats 38,000trs a truck) out of dublin port in the first 3mths this year and the petrol stations were in trouble before the recession and it will get alot worse with people not being able to afford to shop in these very much overpriced shops.

Statoil and Shell pulled out, Esso seriously cut back on their stations, notice a trend and again this was before the recession

Stephen

People are more likely to spend their cash in a nice, modern well-kept shop than in a nasty portakabin type dump. Spend money to make money, etc.

schoolbag2

Stephen wrote: »

People are more likely to spend their cash in a nice, modern well-kept shop than in a nasty portakabin type dump. Spend money to make money, etc.

esp if it has credit card facilities, I always buy my fuel using a laser/cc and the majority of people in the queue with me seem to do the same

Dazzler88

Stephen wrote: »

People are more likely to spend their cash in a nice, modern well-kept shop than in a nasty portakabin type dump. Spend money to make money, etc.

ya dats failry obvious but how does the retailers pay for this shops.all of dez shops take money to maintain and cost money to build..

Gregor Samsa

schoolbag2 wrote: »

Statoil and Shell pulled out, Esso seriously cut back on their stations, notice a trend and again this was before the recession

Not quite. The old Statoil and Shell stations were operated under franchise by Topaz, and they just decided to re brand the lot under the Topaz name (the Corrib gas controversy and protests probably had a part in that).

Stephen

Eh, by selling stuff in the shops that makes them far more profit than selling fuel does.

schoolbag2

Dazzler88 wrote: »

ya dats failry obvious but how does the retailers pay for this shops.all of dez shops take money to maintain and cost money to build..

like any business, you take out a 10/20 year loan to buy the site and fit out. But to get the loan you need a bank that will lend you money and they will want to see a good business plan/cashflow forecast to back it up and they'll need to see you invest some of your own cash too.

The above is all well and good when the banks are lending which is not the case now(and it went to the other extreme over the last 10yrs where you could have a cashflow on a pack of fags and they would give you a million €s)

schoolbag2

phutyle wrote: »

Not quite. The old Statoil and Shell stations were operated under franchise by Topaz, and they just decided to re brand the lot under the Topaz name (the Corrib gas controversy and protests probably had a part in that).

thats not true Topaz is a new company set up circa 2006/7. It first bought shell then it bought statoil which before this were run by the acutal oil companies themselves.

They remained to trade under the respective brands but they had to pay shell/statoil licence rights to trade using shell/statoil petrol stations. Too expensive so they set up a new brand.

Dazzler88

Stephen wrote: »

Eh, by selling stuff in the shops that makes them far more profit than selling fuel does.

thats the point im tryin to make their is money to be made from running a shop even though on earlier posts people think der isnt.If these forecourts werent making money they wouldnt open there doors to the general public and they making good money because i dont know any poor Station owner.Thanks for ur words of wisdom Stephen:P:P

daveharnett

Dazzler, I'd say PM hammertime. He's the only person here who's going to be of any real use to you.

I wish you the best of luck with it, but to be honest it sounds like you should do a lot more research before seriously considering it, and boards isn't the place to start.

Zube

Dazzler88 wrote: »

thats the point im tryin to make their is money to be made from running a shop even though on earlier posts people think der isnt.

You already said the place you're looking at doesn't have a shop, just fuel.

Hammertime (who seems to be asleep ) will tell you that you can only make money on the shop, for overpriced half-dead flowers flogged to guilty husbands headed home to the wife who's been minding their kids while they were playing away from home, if you know what I mean, and I think you do...

Sorry, my round, is it?

schoolbag2

daveharnett wrote: »

Dazzler, I'd say PM hammertime. He's the only person here who's going to be of any real use to you.
.

:rolleyes:

How do you know nobody else is in that business. And in fairness location has alot to do with it so what applies to one petrol station doesnt apply to another

P.C.

What happened to:

'them thieving, robbing petrol stations - taking all our hard earned money for a litre of petrol'?

'fuel/oil companies are ripping us off'

'why is the price of petrol more than a euro a litre crude oil is only $50 a barrel?'

DubTony

daveharnett wrote: »

Dazzler, I'd say PM hammertime. He's the only person here who's going to be of any real use to you.

I wish you the best of luck with it, but to be honest it sounds like you should do a lot more research before seriously considering it, and boards isn't the place to start.

If I was going to ask Hammertime's advice on this I'd make sure my research was complete and I knew what I was talking about. I'm of the opinion that HT doesn't suffer fools. The OP in this case hasn't a clue.

Petrol retailing isn't about selling petrol (any monkey can do that), and it's not about profit on petrol (because there's damn all unless your volume is massive). It's about providing additional services so you get a spin-off from the petrol sales. It's the same as any business that uses loss leaders to drive footfall. Take a very small profit on the main purchase and effectively upsell everything else. Petrol stations make their money IN THE SHOP!

-Chris-

OP, you might find some interesting info here:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055552670