Legal self defense products

2Scoops

Common sense and the ability to run away fast are the best ways out of jam, probably, but what self defense products are legal in Ireland, if any?

smacl

Nikes

Hail 2 Da Chimp

Jack Johnson and Tom O'Leary!

Niall Keane

Below is an interesting link, there's loads of legal self defense products: umbrellas, jackets, bike helmets, windows, railings, passing cars etc.... As the Tai Chi Chuan Lun states: "many error, forsaking what is near, to persue what is far!"

http://www.savateaustralia.com/Savate%20Essays/apache.htm

Many Savate instructors took full advantage of clothing and fashion accessories for use in personal combat against the Apache.
An interesting weapon of defence was the bowler hat. Originally designed as a durable head covering for Gillies and field workers, the bowler became an indispensable fashion accessory for the European gentleman. The hat was so strong that instructors of self-defence taught its use as an improvised buckler to guard against knife attacks. Techniques included a combination of bowler hat and walking stick, with some of the skills used resembling those of the Renaissance sword and buckler. Another combination was the bowler hat and Le couteau ( knife), which may have been influenced by the Sevillian schools of knife fighting

Jackets produced on the continent were often constructed of heavy material such as Gingham (a thick woven hemp), and when wrapped around the forearm a Gingham jacket provided a dense, shock-absorbing gauntlet against bludgeoning attacks.
Amoric elaborates:
"Gingham is an excellent weapon of defence; it will surprise you, if ever you have any occasion to use it, the covers and the loss ribs deaden a blow in a remarkable way "
Other tactical uses of the jacket included aggressive sweeping and whipping strikes, which were usually directed at the face. To add weight to the movement, coins were often knotted at the end of sleeves or placed in pockets.



Another fashion accessory popular amongst the upper class was "La Canne", or walking stick, which in trained hands provided a formidable weapon. Long-range manoeuvres resembled the cut and thrust techniques of the Sabre, and it was sometimes used in conjunction with Le Couteau. Close range application was based partly on the French bayonet.

Many Savate maitres advocated the principle of utilising whatever was at one's disposal. This often included the chair, which was readily accessible for use as an improvised weapon in urban environments. When used aggressively, the chair could clear a room if one was outnumbered, and provided an excellent defence against knives and projectile objects

While today's fashions may have changed from those of our ancestors, it is still vital to be aware of improvised applications of clothing and every day items as weapons for personal defence. European masters of defence have left us with principles that can never become out dated.

Nothingcompares

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055458024

a lot covered in that thread already

Martin25

Yes the bowler hat is an essential self defense tool around July in these parts!

Baggio...

Martin25 wrote: »

Yes the bowler hat is an essential self defense tool around July in these parts!

Very true...

The old idea of taking your jacket off and using it as a knife defense is a very poor concept indeed.

I even saw a certain kenpo guy who used to teach his students to use their shoes, to then, simply "swat" a knife away (good luck with that:rolleyes:).

It's all about timing... how long do you have to access something before he can simply plunge a blade into you multiple times?

Would you really have time to take your jacket off, and then wrap it around your arm? Or take you shoes off? Or reach inside you pocket, and throw change in the guys face?

Even after you consider the whole "timing issue" - they are very poor implements to use against a knife in the first place.

Knife = Run like the devil.

Martin25

Use "Odd Job's" Bowler hat! He nearly did for James Bond with it.

Gonzales

Martin25 wrote: »

Use "Odd Job's" Bowler hat! He nearly did for James Bond with it.

recently "busted"

Niall Keane

Originally Posted by Martin25
Yes the bowler hat is an essential self defence tool around July in these parts!

Very true...

The old idea of taking your jacket off and using it as a knife defence is a very poor concept indeed.....

It's all about timing... how long do you have to access something before he can simply plunge a blade into you multiple times?

Would you really have time to take your jacket off, and then wrap it around your arm? Or take you shoes off? Or reach inside your pocket, and throw change in the guys face?

Even after you consider the whole "timing issue" - they are very poor implements to use against a knife in the first place.

Knife = Run like the devil.

They haven't outlawed bowler hats to my awareness; I think the idea was wearing a jacket over the shoulder, to address the immediacy of combat. This relates to theories of sword drawing for those familiar. My point was to address the OPs question on "legal" self defence products.
Nothing guarantees success, but it can help to stack up the odds. You can train hard for a fight but you can lose, hence the gambling involved, but if you waltz up into the ring totally unprepared well anyone who has fought will tell you what’s going to happen.
A jacket used like a net certainly beats a bare arm in my book. It covers more area, can entangle the opponent’s knife arm safely and conceals half your body and any punches you might throw etc., anyway nothing works if not practiced. How many people actually train weapons nowadays? Without training with weapons, the dynamics of such are forever obscured. It’s like training an empty hand martial art without full contact sparring. Hence I hear people advising to run all the time. Well it’s not always an option, also in which direction? Past the knifeman and possibly into his blade? Tuuuuurrrrrrrnnnnnn around and run, spending time doing so, and exposing a defenceless back?
I know some bright spark will now say that knife attackers ambush and you won’t see it coming, or those who brandish a weapon and threaten won’t use it.
Again people have been known to survive multiple stab wounds, so a martial art ability could allow one to cut short an encounter and avoid being cut down for good. Again stacking up the odds. Not having a clue will certainly do nothing to discourage an attacker. I recall recently someone not a martial artist, but who certainly exhibited a martial intent, using the stub of their arm to punch the swordsman who had cut off their hand, instead if he had run, perhaps he’d have given the swordsman range to recover and attack again, perhaps he would have lost his head. The act of turning to then run constitutes a martial moment, this fact seems to be lost on the run away, don’t get involved veggie brigade. They’ll probably say that advocating a martial response is negligent, so as not to confuse anyone, like my “preparing for the ring” fable above, my point is to train for such an encounter, not to aimlessly lash out.
Training is difficult and takes years, not a weekend course, not even a 12 weeker. This can again be seen in full contact matches. A beginner with about 3 years experience and a few fights appears to be able to handle themselves. But suddenly they enter a ring, the game plan never happens, and they fall apart. Immaturity! Reminds me of those sharks who start sinking and drowning when they fail to tear of meat tied to rocks. The mature fighter, can rise from the ashes, can abandon one strategy / game plan and go for another, in other words he’s not fazed. These are the guys who can turn a fight. Anyone in the game knows that this is what it really means to be a fighter. A collapse of confidence in the ring for a young fighter, means a bad defeat, a baptism of fire, when weapons are involved, the consequences are a bit more pronounced. So re-examine all the “it doesn’t work” attitudes to martial arts relating to weapons, how many self defence experts have developed this fighter’s heart intent? Alternatively, how many fools have we heard of with a 3 year proficiency in blackbeltdo getting seriously injured taking on weapons, or multiple attackers?
Also, re. Ambushes many that carry weapons, do so out of fear, it’s basically an equalizer. Again there are countless Cable Cops programmes showing CCTV footage of youths drunk and armed, who seem to be goaded by peer pressure from their noble mates, or out of some drunken logic decide to escalate things, brandish a knife or bottle etc. from a distance and run over to stab their -until 5 minutes ago unknown- enemy. When I see these pillars of the community act like so, it’s pretty obvious that they are hoping to scare off the perceived threat at first, but being demented pursue the life altering choice to use the weapon.
Is Ireland the only country in the world, or the only place you ever intend to be? Well if not and you consider yourself a “martial artist” then in my opinion it is remiss not to study weapons. Ingraining the knowledge of how they can be used, their dynamic, allows one to be able to substitute everyday items for weapons and know how to counter in the safest manner. That’s my point to the OP, learn how to defend yourself, and don’t seek out an equalizer.
On guns, cause I can hear some pcirk saying well can you dodge bullets?, one should also consider that they’re not unknown to jamb occasionally, should you be blessed and one does, wouldn’t you feel like a right fcukin ejit, running off down the street, allowing the gun wielder to recoup, take aim and “put a cap in your ass”? Again it’s all about leverage and stacking up your odds!
Otherwise what is the point of martial arts and this forum? Or have Irish martial arts become social clubs and cheap crèches where paid for clothing awards are proffered for a dance every three months?

Baggio...

Niall Keane wrote: »

A jacket used like a net certainly beats a bare arm in my book.

Hmm... well, the best way to see if it works is to set it up as a "full contact scenario" (keeping it at a realistic distance, in close, and not sparring range), and then just get rid of any compliant training.

Personally though, I wont be using any of those techniques however...Wearing a jacket over your shoulder does not fix the timing, access and awareness aspects (not to mention the "feasibility").

As for the "run" advise it's the most sensible option. If you can't run however (and you cannot escape), then you must fight using the highest probability of hard skills that you can muster. Again, not taking the piss here, I personally wont be using a shoe, pocket change or bowler hat.

I would agree with you though... it's all about havening a "fighters heat" as you call it, or what we'd call "mindset". Many people have been defending themselves since the dawn of time with absolutely no training - just "the will to do what ever it takes". Of course, if you add a high degree of training to the mindset, your probability will increase.