Long term effect of the recession on archaeology

Medievalist

How do people think the recession will effect the future of archaeology?

On the one hand, the number of G.O.s on site who have no interest in archaeology and who do shoddy work will decrease, I think. It'll be too much hassle for them to get work. So the standard of excavation work should increase as only the really dedicated/ good archaeologists will remain.

However, there are so many cost cutting measures being put in place that only the bare minimum is being done in terms of excavation and post-ex. The number of samples being taken on site has fallen dramatically. And post-ex analysis in now being extremely limited. So much info is being lost.

Does anyone have any other thoughts on this?

Riamfada

Well you are going to have a flood of MA and PHd graduates into the field as the Universities are also cutting staff and a lot of past field archaeologists are currently upskilling. I would say that getting a place on an exvacation would become even more dependent on being in the right bar at the right time with the right person.

Excavations themselves, freelance archaeologists are currently tendering way below the larger firms for the few government jobs that have come through with so of those larger firms on the brink.

If things do pick you I would suggest that there will never be the extreme levels of archaeological excavations being taken in Ireland. Staff on site will be highly skilled graduates being paid low wages.

My 2c

micf

there is still work out there but you have to be willing to travel to it. I don't agree about it being in the right bar but knowing the right person does count. But as long as you get the name and rep of being a good worker you will find that directors come looking for you.

The money is bad but the work is great... trade off

Medievalist

2 years ago there were new archaeology companies popping up all over the place, now another one seems to be closing every month.

I think the days of big commercial companies are over, for a while at least. Companies of that size need a lot of large projects to maintain them and those kinds of projects will never be as abundant as they have been over the past few years.

I think perhaps standards of excavation will increase. I'm just concerned about the lack of funds available for post-ex. I remember getting excited whenever there was the opportunity for strontium isotope analysis or something equally fun. Those days are over. Now I'm just glad to see a soil sample

I think if graduates were paid any less, it'd probably be illegal!

opeldave

Medievalist wrote: »

2 years ago there were new archaeology companies popping up all over the place, now another one seems to be closing every month.

I think the days of big commercial companies are over, for a while at least. Companies of that size need a lot of large projects to maintain them and those kinds of projects will never be as abundant as they have been over the past few years.

I think perhaps standards of excavation will increase. I'm just concerned about the lack of funds available for post-ex. I remember getting excited whenever there was the opportunity for strontium isotope analysis or something equally fun. Those days are over. Now I'm just glad to see a soil sample

I think if graduates were paid any less, it'd probably be illegal!

How bad is the pay scale for graduates?

Minimum wage lol?

Cheers David

Medievalist

Unfortunately, when you start on your first site you get paid as a G.O., regardless of whether you have a degree or not. You could be taking home quite a bit less than €400 a week. Thing is, graduates tend to move up to site assistants quickly enough. Assistants get around €420 (ballpark) and supervisors tend to get somewhere around €450 - 475, depending which company you're working for. Directors could be looking at €50,000 p.a.

The standard timeframe for promotions are from G.O. to assistant in about 6 months, then supervisor after about 2 years roughly (depending on skill and to a greater extent luck). There are two levels of assistant with different pay scales.

It is an amazing job. One of the most sociable there is . It's great when everyone on a site loves their work and is really passionate about it. It can be tough, but it's worth it (I think).

But lots of people are leaving at the moment to go get 'real' jobs. It's a pity. Hopefully things will level out a bit and companies will stop panicking about the recession.

opeldave

Medievalist wrote: »

Unfortunately, when you start on your first site you get paid as a G.O., regardless of whether you have a degree or not. You could be taking home quite a bit less than €400 a week. Thing is, graduates tend to move up to site assistants quickly enough. Assistants get around €420 (ballpark) and supervisors tend to get somewhere around €450 - 475, depending which company you're working for. Directors could be looking at €50,000 p.a.

The standard timeframe for promotions are from G.O. to assistant in about 6 months, then supervisor after about 2 years roughly (depending on skill and to a greater extent luck). There are two levels of assistant with different pay scales.

It is an amazing job. One of the most sociable there is . It's great when everyone on a site loves their work and is really passionate about it. It can be tough, but it's worth it (I think).

But lots of people are leaving at the moment to go get 'real' jobs. It's a pity. Hopefully things will level out a bit and companies will stop panicking about the recession.

Thanks Medievalist, thats just the specific info I was looking for!
Ill probably be starting a Degree in UCD next year if everything falls into place;)
I need to get my head examined by the sounds of what Ill be letting myself in for:P

David

Medievalist

Archaeology is one of those things where you either get completely drawn into it, or give up in a week . I bet after a couple of lectures in UCD you'll be hooked for life.

I'm getting slightly off topic here, but if you want a good insight into arch, then there are a couple of conferences you could think about going to. There's a medieval Dublin one every year in May, and the next conference I know of is the NRA one at the end of August. You'll have to register via their website, but it's free in. There's usually a great mix of papers and would give you a good idea of what's going on in Irish arch at the moment.

Back on topic, I think that since so many archaeologists have extra time on their hands these days, maybe we'll get more interesting papers at conferences than just a brief run through of features found on sites!

opeldave

Medievalist wrote: »

Archaeology is one of those things where you either get completely drawn into it, or give up in a week . I bet after a couple of lectures in UCD you'll be hooked for life.

I'm getting slightly off topic here, but if you want a good insight into arch, then there are a couple of conferences you could think about going to. There's a medieval Dublin one every year in May, and the next conference I know of is the NRA one at the end of August. You'll have to register via their website, but it's free in. There's usually a great mix of papers and would give you a good idea of what's going on in Irish arch at the moment.

Back on topic, I think that since so many archaeologists have extra time on their hands these days, maybe we'll get more interesting papers at conferences than just a brief run through of features found on sites!

Well Im already completely drawn into it so thats me damned for all eternity!
Ill sign up for that NRA conference thanks for the pointer.:cool:

robp

I'm currently an archaeology undergraduate so I'm curious about the educational requirements in the main employers; the private companies.

Where are people upskilling? Are they going back to third level for MAs?
The choice of postgrads seems so restricted in Ireland. Especially with some of the MA programmes being dropped in UCC and Queens. The only programmes available in Ireland seem be very general.

Are many people leaving the commercial sector to start phds? From what I can see the amount phd students in Irish universities far exceeds the demands of academia. Are these students aiming to establish themselves as specialists in areas not covered by the available taught programmes? Do phds have much/any real value in the commercial sector?

The situation looks a bit hopeless by those starting out like myself. I am suspecting that a postgrad in the UK might be the best option.
Robert

Medievalist

If you are just starting off and want to work on a site, then education isn't a main factor. A degree will get you to most places you want to go. I know directors who just have a BA. Postgrads aren't essential. I've never met a field archaeologist with a phD! Some of the best specialists I know have a MA/ MSc and haven't felt they needed to do a doctorate in order to do well in commercial archaeology. Employers are more likely take on an MA graduate who knows how to budget than a PhD graduate just out of college.

That said, as competition gets tighter a Phd might become the norm for specialists. You might have to study in the UK or Queens to get into areas like pollen analysis, etc. The postgrad choices here are dire!

Lots of people are going back to college right now because they want to stay in the area of archaeology but can't find jobs. The problem with that is, as you said Robp, there are far more students than academia can accomodate. And if excavations don't increase over the next couple of years, there'll still be a bunch of unemployed archaeologists...they'll just have to tick the 'Dr' box on their social welfare forms!

blingBabe

I think that there will be a few jobs still to be had, or at least I hope so!

I have heard that all the ad Astra funding for PhDs has been axed this year. Has any other person here heard that? I was hoping to try for it.

Riamfada

blingBabe wrote: »

I think that there will be a few jobs still to be had, or at least I hope so!

I have heard that all the ad Astra funding for PhDs has been axed this year. Has any other person here heard that? I was hoping to try for it.

The applicatants for IRCHSS funding also went up while the awards were dropped. Out of around 630 only 145 got funding.

blingBabe

Grimes wrote: »

The applicatants for IRCHSS funding also went up while the awards were dropped. Out of around 650 only about 150 got funding.

That's bad news... I think the offer of work in Canada is sounding better all the time.

Saabdub

IAI employment survey indicates total meltdown in contract archaeological employment http://www.iai.ie/PressReleases/IAIEmploymentSurveyJune2009.pdf with 82% of contract archaeologists unemployed last January. Unless NAMA requires an archaeological capability, which it won't, I can't see publicly funded archaeological positions surviving the next five years of budget cuts. DEHLG, National Museum and Universities will survive as they did in the 1980s, the rest will be dismantled. For those archaeologists remaining in Ireland due to family commitments, etc. this would be a good time to look at retraining opportunities in preparation for the September and January course starts.

Riamfada

Saabdub wrote: »

I can't see publicly funded archaeological positions surviving the next five years of budget cuts. DEHLG, National Museum and Universities will survive as they did in the 1980s, the rest will be dismantled. .

Do you predict the closure of the private consultancies? I have noticed alot of people retraining outside of the profession. With companies laying off swarms of its staff. One large company in particular losing 70% of its workforce.

I have heard from a CEO that tendering situations are now extremely competitive with freelance directors bidding well below the consultancies ability to reduce costs due to a lack of overheads and being those freelance directors being awarded the contracts.

Saabdub

Companies with large fixed overheads are being continually underbid for contracts by many hundreds of percent. They could pursue this high cost strategy when public procurement finance was plentiful but now public finances are to be devoted to the banking sector. With the national debt estimated by the IMF to rise to 124% of GDP by 2014 and the Govt. paying almost 6% interest on the debt, there are going to be draconian cuts in expenditure and tax rises. This will continue to depress economic activity for years. There will be some projects, for example in energy, transport, and some factories resulting from inward investment, but I don't think archaeological employment will ever recover to the levels of 2007.

Medievalist

I doubt the private companies will collapse completely. Archaeological surveys are still needed to comply with EU mandates. With all the current budget cuts, it would be impossible for the public sector to handle the work load. There are very few publicly funded excavations in this country, and that number will drop too, I think.

As Grimes mentioned, more directors are taking the freelance route. I think this is going to be the way things are for a while. Less admin, more archaeology...can't say I don't like the idea