Life and death

karlog

This always freaked me out. If there is life after death whats after that? and then what's next. Will there be a never ending cycle of life and death forever and ever. When we do die will we know the truth or just pass on to the next life with no memory of the previous one. Of course no one knows but whats your opinion.

Dinner

I didn't exist before I was born, so chances are I won't exist after I die.

karlog

thats what i mean you could of existed without even knowing it. this could be my 567th life for all i know

I think that your posting this in an atheism forum will result in extremely biased opinions!

My opinion is that there is no life after death - nothing. So, I don't trouble myself with the question you've asked.

branie

Who knows - we couild be living our life over and over again.

CerebralCortex

branie wrote: »

Who knows - we couild be living our life over and over again.

Which is the same thing as post #2.

Flamed Diving

What about grass? Does grass have an afterlife? Or reincarnation?

dvpower

Flamed Diving wrote: »

What about grass? Does grass have an afterlife? Or reincarnation?

Yes it does.

Grass is eaten by cows (and turns into bits of cow); cows are killed and are eaten by people (and turns into bits of people), people die and their bodies decompose; their rotting corpses makes a wonderful fertiliser for grass, and the cycle continues.

Flamed Diving

dvpower wrote: »

Yes it does.

Grass is eaten by cows (and turns into bits of cow); cows are killed and are eaten by people (and turns into bits of people), people die and their bodies decompose; their rotting corpses makes a wonderful fertiliser for grass, and the cycle continues.

Hmm, and the same with all matter, when you think about it.

Evil-p

IMO the questions you are asking youself are what caused the foundation of all religion. The uncertainty about what happens after this life is IMO why people believe in a God or an afterlife to begin with. And I am symhathetic to that - of course a parent losing a child will want to believe that they will be reunited with their child some day.

However I believe that death is the end. The idea of reincaranation and the circle of life may have some merit as someone mentioned in cows eating grass etc, but if your biological remains are reused by nature they are in no recognisable form therefore insignificant.

I think the only way to live forever is through your children. Pass on position traits and maybe your good influence will be behind the cure for cancer in a couple of generations.

I have been with a couple of relatives when they have died and it seemed like a peaceful and pleasant.

Dave!

karlog wrote: »

thats what i mean you could of existed without even knowing it. this could be my 567th life for all i know

You could be a brain in a jar being fed 'reality' electronically

You could be a program called 'Life Simulator' being run on someone's laptop

...but let's just stick to what the evidence suggests and resist the urge to create more exciting realities.

TheManWho

I think that life after death is just an idea, a human creation. But it is essential nonetheless, like a balanced equation. For every suicide bomber who kills himself to murder people and get into the afterlife, there's a man of faith who sacrifices himself to save people and get into the afterlife.

Although if it is ever proven that a "soul" or lifeforce exists, I would sooner believe that it's recycled into new life rather than sent up to the metaphorical above

Newaglish

karlog wrote: »

If there is life after death whats after that? and then what's next.

I just had an image of all the atheists from this board sitting up in the holy cloudiness of heaven, nodding in sagely agreement as they say "no, this is it - there definitely isn't another one after this!"

Undergod

Reincarnation says that we are reborn in new bodies when we die, as new people or animals.

How are we to define the essence of what "we" are? My own feeling on the matter is that thoughts and memories define what we are (the ego, if that's the right term?). So if I was a mechanic in my past life, how come I can't remember it? It has nothing to do with who I am. On this basis I reject reincarnation.

Similarly, I don't think I led any other life in any other worlds.

Will I lead any more lives after I die? It's possible that this life I am currently living is my first, but as it doesn't seem that people are reincarnated in this world (by my criteria) then I would tend towards the belief that this won't happen. If people become reincarnated into some other world (heaven and hell, the outer planes, the next dimension) then we have no way of knowing, so I have no real opinion on this. It's possible that there is a heaven or some kind of afterlife, but there's no real reason to believe in my opinion.

dvpower

Newaglish wrote: »

I just had an image of all the atheists from this board sitting up in the holy cloudiness of heaven, nodding in sagely agreement as they say "no, this is it - there definitely isn't another one after this!"

Isn't that the conclusion that Christians and other religious have already come to?

Mickeroo

dvpower wrote: »

Yes it does.

Grass is eaten by cows (and turns into bits of cow); cows are killed and are eaten by people (and turns into bits of people), people die and their bodies decompose; their rotting corpses makes a wonderful fertiliser for grass, and the cycle continues.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vX07j9SDFcc

Righteous :pac:

togster

karlog wrote: »

When we do die will we know the truth or just pass on to the next life with no memory of the previous one. Of course no one knows but whats your opinion.

In my opinion there is no life after death in the religious sense of the way.
But we must go back to something since we came from something.
I mean our bodies decay and decompose and get into the soil, and then it rains and then into the river and so on. The very absolute cohesion of it all. Everything happens for a reason.

Just my opinion

Dr_H_Lecter

maybe interesting to someone else out there: ajahn brahm http://www.bswa.org/audio/podcast/AjahnBrahm.rss.php waffles alot about such questions. interesting guy. scientist/monk.
also on youtube. deepak chopra interesting too, although i know the harder atheists dont really like his views so much.
also this doc/lady ..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyyjU8fzEYU&feature=channel_page had one or two interesting things to say.

guess theres only one way to know for sure, funny feeling ill get the chance to find out. :rolleyes:

togster

Evil-p wrote: »

I think the only way to live forever is through your children. Pass on position traits and maybe your good influence will be behind the cure for cancer in a couple of generations.

How can you live through anyone else? It's a contradictory sentence.

Undergod

Yeah, and besides, you're still dead.

Urizen

No one knows what happens when we die. Way I see it, whatever makes us us is gone. Where it goes doesn't really bother me.
Even if Christianity was right, and we're all judged... Screw it. The very idea of being judged for your actions according to a system you don't agree to nullifies the idea of free will. Besides, Hell would probably have some fun peoples.

No matter what, worrying your life away is only wasting time. Nothing can be done to change us dying. And this may be the Satanist in me talking, but ya may as well indulge in whatever the hell you want while you're around. So quit the melancholy musing, get out there and LIVE!

Or not, your choice I guess. But it's surprisingly fun.

20goto10

If the multiple universe theory is correct then anything that could possibly happen, will happen. I'm not saying that means there is an afterlife, but if that were true then you are already dead in another universe. That time when I got knocked down as a kid and everyone told me I was very lucky to be alive, well there's a universe where I wasn't so lucky. In another universe Michael JAckson is still alive (and he's black!). We could, theoretically, be dying all the time. When that time actually comes in this universe, will I still be alive in another universe? Death could be meaningless until the final outcome where there is absolutely no possibilty of you living. So if you think about it, we could all (in our own universe) live to a very old age. To an age where all possibilities of staying alive are extinguished.

But then again, there might be a universe where I am not yet born and will not be born in that universe until after I die in this universe.

Urizen

I make it a point never to think directly about the multiverse theory. Spend more than ten seconds on it, you'll probably spend a day.

rockmongrel

As the great Bender put it, "If I thought there was a whole other life, I'd kill myself right now."

aidan24326

karlog wrote: »

thats what i mean you could of existed without even knowing it. this could be my 567th life for all i know

No it couldn't. What makes you 'YOU', is a unique configuration of matter between your ears. 'You' could not have existed before. If you think about it carefully you'll see that it's impossible.

Urizen

Yep. Other VERSIONS of you could have existed, in other universes, but not the exact you that's making this statement... I've started now, dammit!

drkpower

aidan24326 wrote: »

No it couldn't. What makes you 'YOU', is a unique configuration of matter between your ears. 'You' could not have existed before. If you think about it carefully you'll see that it's impossible.

But is it as simple as that?

Identical twins with precisely the same genetic information, presumably an almost identical brain and very very similar environmental factors and experiences (if they were brought up together) can be hugely different people.

What is the other factor at play?
Is there another factor at play?
Who knows - but I think we are way too early in our understanding of the brain and how it reacts and interacts to come to a conclusion that it is all there is controlling/affecting us and that it is impossible that we could have existed in a different form before?

CerebralCortex

drkpower wrote: »

But is it as simple as that?

Identical twins with precisely the same genetic information, presumably an almost identical brain and very very similar environmental factors and experiences (if they were brought up together) can be hugely different people.

What is the other factor at play?
Is there another factor at play?
Who knows - but I think we are way too early in our understanding of the brain and how it reacts and interacts to come to a conclusion that it is all there is controlling/affecting us and that it is impossible that we could have existed in a different form before?

See word in bold.

Zillah

drkpower wrote: »

But is it as simple as that?

Yes. It really is.

Identical twins with precisely the same genetic information, presumably an almost identical brain and very very similar environmental factors and experiences (if they were brought up together) can be hugely different people.

What is the other factor at play?

I could list a thousand. School, friends, TV, music, books etc

Is there another factor at play?
Who knows - but I think we are way too early in our understanding of the brain and how it reacts and interacts to come to a conclusion that it is all there is controlling/affecting us and that it is impossible that we could have existed in a different form before?

There are an infinity of things we can't say are impossible. It doesn't mean they're not baseless and stupid ideas.

5uspect

Your brain is a neural network. It works by linking synapses between brain cells.
This is done as you experience things in your life. So if you take identical twins their personal experiences will differ. Therefore the synaptic links in their brains will differ.

More crudely Dell makes millions of identical PCs. They'll all experience different uses, infections and lifetimes.

Myksyk

drkpower wrote: »

But is it as simple as that?

Identical twins with precisely the same genetic information, presumably an almost identical brain and very very similar environmental factors and experiences (if they were brought up together) can be hugely different people

Well, typically, twins are not HUGELY different people in terms of personality, temperament, interests etc. The differences that do exist can be reasonably accounted for by the fact that the actual second-to-second experiences they have throughout their lives are almost entirely different.

aidan24326

drkpower wrote: »

But is it as simple as that?

Identical twins with precisely the same genetic information, presumably an almost identical brain and very very similar environmental factors and experiences (if they were brought up together) can be hugely different people.

Identical twins will not have almost identical brains, not even close. There will be similiarities of course, as there is for all of us, but ultimately they are two completely different individuals with their own unique thoughts and experiences. 5uspect summed it up well enough anyway, as did Myksyk. I personaly know identical twins who have significantly different personalities and abilities, so there you go.

Who knows - but I think we are way too early in our understanding of the brain and how it reacts and interacts to come to a conclusion that it is all there is controlling/affecting us and that it is impossible that we could have existed in a different form before?

You're quite right in saying that our understanding of the brain is still limited (though steadily advancing), but the next part of your post doesn't really make sense. What else could be controlling us except our own body, and more specifically our own nervous system? Short of appealing to the so-called paranormal I don't really see where you're going with that one.

The important point is that your brain is absolutely unique, and the enormous complexity would make it damned-near impossible to replicate in any case. So even if another version of drkpower is typing on boards in an alternate universe, then whoever he is he isn't you.

Dave!

aidan24326 wrote: »

Identical twins will not have almost identical brains, not even close. There will be similiarities of course, as there is for all of us, but ultimately they are two completely different individuals with their own unique thoughts and experiences. 5uspect summed it up well enough anyway, as did Myksyk. I personaly know identical twins who have significantly different personalities and abilities, so there you go.

I suggest you research twins studies before you make comments like that

Monozygotic twins' brains are remarkably similar

Doctor DooM

Dave! wrote: »

I suggest you research twins studies before you make comments like that

Monozygotic twins' brains are remarkably similar

Genotypically similar but not phenotypically. Brains are trained neruel matrixes.

A good analogy would be that the blank canvases of the brains are the same, but the journey home from from the art shop will leave permanent, different marks on them which give them character.

Well maybe not a good analogy

Sheesh guys, do your homework

drkpower

aidan24326 wrote: »

Identical twins will not have almost identical brains, not even close. There will be similiarities of course, as there is for all of us, but ultimately they are two completely different individuals with their own unique thoughts and experiences. 5uspect summed it up well enough anyway, as did Myksyk. I personaly know identical twins who have significantly different personalities and abilities, so there you go..

I should have said almost identical brains genetically and physically; yet after very similar environmental factors are added, they can end up remarkably different (even at an early age).

aidan24326 wrote: »

You're quite right in saying that our understanding of the brain is still limited (though steadily advancing), but the next part of your post doesn't really make sense. What else could be controlling us except our own body, and more specifically our own nervous system? Short of appealing to the so-called paranormal I don't really see where you're going with that one. .

It doesnt have to be the paranormal. You made the point that what makes "YOU" is your brain. Thats fine but external factors can affect how your brain controls you. We understand very little about the brain. Who knows what else affects it. Different dimensions, alternate universes, former lives.

Dont get me wrong, all of this is unlikely, even fanciful. But we know far less about the brain than we know so I would be very reluctant to rule as impossible that an individual may have existed in a previous form or in a previous life .

Doctor DooM

drkpower wrote: »

I should have said almost identical brains genetically and physically; yet after very similar environmental factors are added, they can end up remarkably different (even at an early age).

Just to make it extra clear- the brains will actually become physically different as the human body ages, not just in the mind or some such. Different nueral pathways will be formed depending on individual experience.

chezzer

Dinner wrote: »

I didn't exist before I was born, so chances are I won't exist after I die.

The thing about this is , it's true .. but you could also say ... ok before i was born ... i didn't exist i was in State X ... yet ... I came into existence ... .. when i die i'll go back into state X ... and maybe can come out again ?? as a different person perhaps ... unfortunately ... what about a possible human that was never born ? like me and Kiera Knightley's kid .. for example .. will that "potential human" ever exist ..?? get's complicated ... so occums razor prevails and most likely death is the end ... that's it ... so make this life a good one !!

chezzer

Actually Frank Tipler in "The physics of immortality" gives the best explanation of an afterlife that i have ever read ... ever single human that ever existed will be resurrected in an advanced computer simulation ... not only every human that ever existed ... but every possible human ...

Sonderval

Death is nothing to fear. To paraphrase Mark Twain, you were dead for 13 billion years already and it wasn't that bad.

aidan24326

Dave! wrote: »

I suggest you research twins studies before you make comments like that

Monozygotic twins' brains are remarkably similar

The fact is their brains are different enough to make them completely separate, distinct individuals with their own unique conscious experience. It's now known that our brain is a dynamic ever-changing organ, with synaptic strengths continually modified by the thoughts and experiences we have. In saying their brains are 'remarkably similiar' it depends what level of description you're talking about. The overall system might look very similiar but the wiring details will be different enough to allow for the obvious differences in personality, ability and behaviour that we routinely observe.

Zillah

drkpower wrote: »

Different dimensions, alternate universes, former lives.

Jesus Christ.

No really, maybe Jesus Christ is influencing our brains. As is Dark Matter, and black holes and pixies and unicorns and extra dimensional aliens.

These are all stupid ideas. We should dismiss all of them because they have not a jot of evidence.

drkpower

Zillah wrote: »

Jesus Christ.

No really, maybe Jesus Christ is influencing our brains. As is Dark Matter, and black holes and pixies and unicorns and extra dimensional aliens.

These are all stupid ideas. We should dismiss all of them because they have not a jot of evidence.

In fairness, I did describe them as fanciful but merely hypothesised them in response to a suggestion that the only thing that controlled us was "between our ears".

Not so long ago the idea of external hormones (ie. pheromones) affecting our "brain" would have appeared fanciful. It is not necessarily fanciful now.