Muay Thai

Dave Joyce

It's very hard not to see this as a group of guys in established Muay Thai circles (Dave joyce and friends) ganging up on a lad trying to run a show.

Wow, man you're gas:rolleyes: I remember when some guys in Galway tried to run a show the questions and comments rolled in but when you're not part of the "club" here it different....right?

This has nothing to do with the IMC but wanting ONLY people QUALIFIED in Muaythai (suppose you know EXACTLY what we're talking about here, yea) to run shows.

To my knowledge there are no qualifications or tangible credentials for Muay thai instructing/teaching/competing in ireland except street cred.

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Plenty of MMA promotors run safe shows without being affiliated to a governing body. No reason why it couldn't be the same for Muay Thai or any other sport.

Really Tim, you've no problem with ANYONE running an MMA show??? As a matter of interest, do you know what would be the requirements to run a safe Muaythai show, or is it just a matter of guys with the "balls" to get in the ring???

we dont need or want to contacted by them thank you.

Yes I'm sure you don't BUT we ARE the government recognised NGB for Muaythai in Ireland and we have STANDARDS. Its amazing when people like this run shows unprofessionally and IF someone gets hurt, people THEN start asking questions but we get sh*t for asking questions BEFORE something like that happens.

Nothingcompares

other than demonstrate you're a little ticked off that post doesn't actually give any information or present any argument. plenty of :rolleyes: though.

I actually think in future it's kind important to take into account the fact that certain posters have more vested interest in these types of things than others. Like for me personally, it doesn't really matter if there are 2 or 20 competing groups in Muay Thai looking for NGB status. It doesn't really matter if there are Muay Thai events taking place outside the supervision of the (allegedly) government recognised IMC. I don't earn a living from Muay Thai, I don't do it as a hobby and I don't even go to Muay Thai events (although I would like the option to).

So either that's a very good reason to keep my mouth shut and my opinions to myself or that's a very good reason to voice them.

I think there are many important differences between the Galway guy and his MMA/circus event and this MMA/Muay Thai event and it's not a relevant comparison.

deise muay thai

Dave Joyce wrote: »

Yes I'm sure you don't BUT we ARE the government recognised NGB for Muaythai in Ireland and we have STANDARDS. Its amazing when people like this run shows unprofessionally and IF someone gets hurt, people THEN start asking questions but we get sh*t for asking questions BEFORE something like that happens.

Our shows are always fully insured and medicals are carried out before the show, and we always have a doctor at all our shows. If there's anything else we need you can let us know, thanks?

Tim_Murphy

Really Tim, you've no problem with ANYONE running an MMA show???

No, that is clearly not what I said. My point is simply that not being in a governing body or an association doesn't mean that a person doesn't mean a person doesn't have the expertise to run a show. If you decided to leave the IMC in the morning I presume you'd still know how to put on a safe Muay Thai show?

As a matter of interest, do you know what would be the requirements to run a safe Muaythai show, or is it just a matter of guys with the "balls" to get in the ring???

Well I've a fair idea what is required to run a safe MMA show. I wouldn't be sure what if any differences there would be for a Muay Thai show.

dunkamania

I have moved a portion of a thread from the MMA forum as it was dragging a a thread off-topic, and its not an MMA issue. I am not sure if there is anything more to be said on this topic, or if the moderator's here are happy to let this discussion take place.

Below is the link to the original thread

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055592345

arybvtcw0eolkf

Thanks D.

I've no problems letting it run as both Tim & K are well versed in internet combat, both are seasoned & bloodied veterans but always manage (just about) to keep it within the rules.

Dave, please act in a similar manner & I'm happy enough to let you all hammer lumps out of each other - but remember no one's gonna come out of this covered in glory!.

Ding Dong...


.

dunkamania wrote: »

I have moved a portion of a thread from the MMA forum as it was dragging a a thread off-topic, and its not an MMA issue. I am not sure if there is anything more to be said on this topic, or if the moderator's here are happy to let this discussion take place.

Below is the link to the original thread

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055592345

yomchi

dunkamania wrote: »

I have moved a portion of a thread from the MMA forum as it was dragging a a thread off-topic, and its not an MMA issue. I am not sure if there is anything more to be said on this topic, or if the moderator's here are happy to let this discussion take place.

Below is the link to the original thread

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055592345

Discussions about governing bodies and politics usually descend in chaos, so everyone should try keep things as professional as possible. Keep the aul emotion out of it and it could be a good thread.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Jon wrote: »

Discussions about governing bodies and politics usually descend in chaos, so everyone should try keep things as professional as possible. Keep the aul emotion out of it and it could be a good thread.

Ju

Draven Immense Triad wrote: »

Thanks D.

I've no problems letting it run as both Tim & K are well versed in internet combat, both are seasoned & bloodied veterans but always manage (just about) to keep it within the rules.

Dave, please act in a similar manner & I'm happy enough to let you all hammer lumps out of each other - but remember no one's gonna come out of this covered in glory!.

Ding Dong...


.

Do....

/Probably lost on everyone

Killme00

Tim_Murphy wrote: »

Plenty of MMA promotors run safe shows without being affiliated to a governing body. No reason why it couldn't be the same for Muay Thai or any other sport.

But there is no governing body for MMA in Ireland, is there? Perhaps now is the time to set one up while there are a small number of clubs and it is still feasible. How does it work in the states, sanctioning is required for events, isnt it?

The fact is, there is a governing body for MT and while I dont know whats involved in joining the IMC, surely it is worthwhile if you plan on training MT fighters. I mean, there will be more events available to you ie fighters, judges and knowledge available to you for your own event.

Tim_Murphy

Killme00 wrote: »

But there is no governing body for MMA in Ireland, is there? Perhaps now is the time to set one up while there are a small number of clubs and it is still feasible. How does it work in the states, sanctioning is required for events, isnt it?

Numerous attempts to start an Irish MMA governing body have been made, but none have ever come to anything. I don't see the situation changing to be honest.

Killme00 wrote: »

The fact is, there is a governing body for MT and while I dont know whats involved in joining the IMC, surely it is worthwhile if you plan on training MT fighters. I mean, there will be more events available to you ie fighters, judges and knowledge available to you for your own event.

I know nothing about MT but yes, you'd imagine that if there were a competent governing body for a sport it would make sense to be a part of it.

Nothingcompares

Thanks for moving the thread I think this is an interesting discussion. Alas Tim has already said what I wanted to say but I must keep to a two paragraph minimum so I'll elaborate.

DJ seemed to imply that someone outside the IMC couldn't possibly run a safe and successful Muay Thai show purely because they weren't members of the NGB.

Deise Muay Thai have actually confirmed that have the relevant safety and medical provisions in place. Obviously we have to take his word for it. But I'm sure people that feel strongly about MT and its image should give him a call and query it.

As best I remember with the Galway MMA circus and the "unique tournament" in Northern Ireland a couple of lads from Irish MMA rang/contacted the relevant promoters and asked them specifically what medical/refereeing etc. structures they had in place. Thus in the case of the latter, everyone was reasonably satisfied it was legit.

Again i think it's important to state that I don't earn a living from either MMA/MT (nor have ambitions to do so). If was, I can understand why people are a lot more concerned about tarnishing of their sports image because it does (to a certain degree) jeopardise the future of the sports.

Usually when people start talking about the differences between Judo Ireland and IJA someone will say "they've no insurance" and imply there's an inherent risk of participating in one orgs competitions than the others. But in reality they have identical safety and insurance set ups.

cowzerp

dunkamania wrote: »

I have moved a portion of a thread from the MMA forum as it was dragging a a thread off-topic, and its not an MMA issue.

Thanks Dunk, Dave just throwing 2 questions at you if you dont mind,

1. How do you get affiliated with the muay thai council?

2. Are you's against shows fighting under MT rules if they dont use the Muay thai name?

I understand you looking after Muay thai's interests as i'd do the exact same thing if it was in relation to MMA, The main things i'd be concerned about is,
1, Is it going to ruin the name of MMA and
2 Are MMA fighters going to get hurt due to bad practises.

Dave Joyce

Lets clear a couple of things up firstly guys. I was not the one to mention NGB's first, it was brought up (and in a very derogatory way) by Nothingcomperes(.....whats new there), not me.

Secondly, both Anthony Corkery/Dave Aherne and Martin Horgan have run shows (and they are not in the IMC) and I or the IMC have never called their ability or qualification to do this into question.

Thirdly, and what I find particularly galling is whenever someone announces a new club or a new promotion in MMA, they are questioned endlessly (and rightly so, for those that might not read that correctly AND RIGHTLY SO) about their training etc to establish their level. Now if it transpires that they are chancing their arm or not genuine in their intentions they are rounded on and again rightly so.

In the case of this particular club, (I'll deal with the show in a second), they to the best of my knowledge have no experience or qualification to teach/instruct. "Street cred" or a couple of weeks training in Thailand CERTAINLY DO NOT QUALIFY. This particular club seem to be threatened by the success of John Walsh's club and have now decided to spread their wings.

As regards the intended promotion, I have seen some of the previous attempts at matchmaking and they were dangerous to say the least, particularly when you're talking about pro Muaythai. Secondly, I'm lead to believe that knees to the head were allowed or at least happened in a previous promotion AND one of the judges had NO MARTIAL ARTS EXPERIENCE, but at least was involved in SOCCER!

Sean Dillon and Craig O'Flynn have worked extremely hard to get the sport recognised and the last thing we want is a gang of cowboys (for use of a better word) dragging the name of Muaythai into the mud with dangerous practises and a total lack of experience working in Muaythai. Guys, I would like to remind you its not that long ago that kickboxing promotions were outright banned from taking place in the north of Ireland only a few short years ago when a guy died after competing in a show in, I think, Tyrone.

Dave Joyce

1. How do you get affiliated with the muay thai council?

No problem Paul. You simply apply to any member of the Executive (better off with either Sean or Craig) and they will meet you and go through the requirements for entry. Nothing mysterious completion of courses and licencing fighters are the main thing and obviously adhering to the rules. Most of which are the rules of the World Muaythai Council and also the Irish Sports Council. Yes there is expense and work involved but in the long run it is very worthwhile and I think we will see the benefits in the very near future.

2. Are you's against shows fighting under MT rules if they dont use the Muay thai name?

We don't give a damn about people doing K1, MMA whatever but we certainly take exception to people using the name Muaythai if they are not qualified to do so and yes would be against shows that do so.

Siamdragon

I haven’t had a lot of time to keep up to date on this thread or have the time to waste going over the same things all the time. The Irish Muaythai Council is the governing body for Muaythai in Ireland, And have all the right criteria in place to develop the sport in a safe and educational way, So when some one say they are doing Muaythai fights with out the Consent of The Governing Body yes it is a Cause for Concern for all of us as it’s the Name MUAYTHAI will suffer if people like this put on a bad Show or heaven forbid someone got injured, for Years people tough Muaythai ways a rough hard brutal sport, Due to lack of knowledge of the in this Great Art, but with the Hard Hard Work of a Bunch of People Muaythai in Ireland has Gown all over the Country and has some great fighters and run nearly two Muaythai Shows a Month,every year in year out.
If two guys are out fighting on the street or on an open mat floor or in a Cage one throws a Sloppy knee and an elbow and the other throws a Kick Does that make that a Muaythai fight????? Dont be stupid no it does not, or if I roll around the floor wrestling some guy does the contest a bjj match NO.
To fight Muaythai Contest both fighters must be properly trained in Muaythai by and experience teacher, the fight must be fought under proper Muaythai Rules and regulations, the Contest must be Score and Reff under Proper Muaythai regulations
All fighters must be matched really well to make sure even match and all safe regulations must be in place safety regulation under the Irish Muaythai Council and the Irish Sports Council
Yes we have problems with ANYONE using the name Muaythai or Thai boxing that is not following proper regulations which have been set out
Muaythai is a Brand NAME we don’t want it damaged by any Cowboys or people out to make a fast buck on its name
If you want to use the Name Muaythai do it right or not at all
Call it KICKBOXING, K1, we don’t care, but I think many people have use that already and ruined the name and done a lot of damage to those sports and reputation everyone seems to be a Kickboxing Champion that I talk to these days.
If you can’t do it right don’t do it at all, Leave our sport Muaythai Alone.

SJP.

Tim_Murphy

Dave Joyce wrote: »

Lets clear a couple of things up firstly guys. I was not the one to mention NGB's first, it was brought up (and in a very derogatory way) by Nothingcomperes(.....whats new there), not me.

Secondly, both Anthony Corkery/Dave Aherne and Martin Horgan have run shows (and they are not in the IMC) and I or the IMC have never called their ability or qualification to do this into question.

Thirdly, and what I find particularly galling is whenever someone announces a new club or a new promotion in MMA, they are questioned endlessly (and rightly so, for those that might not read that correctly AND RIGHTLY SO) about their training etc to establish their level. Now if it transpires that they are chancing their arm or not genuine in their intentions they are rounded on and again rightly so.

In the case of this particular club, (I'll deal with the show in a second), they to the best of my knowledge have no experience or qualification to teach/instruct. "Street cred" or a couple of weeks training in Thailand CERTAINLY DO NOT QUALIFY. This particular club seem to be threatened by the success of John Walsh's club and have now decided to spread their wings.

As regards the intended promotion, I have seen some of the previous attempts at matchmaking and they were dangerous to say the least, particularly when you're talking about pro Muaythai. Secondly, I'm lead to believe that knees to the head were allowed or at least happened in a previous promotion AND one of the judges had NO MARTIAL ARTS EXPERIENCE, but at least was involved in SOCCER!

Sean Dillon and Craig O'Flynn have worked extremely hard to get the sport recognised and the last thing we want is a gang of cowboys (for use of a better word) dragging the name of Muaythai into the mud with dangerous practises and a total lack of experience working in Muaythai. Guys, I would like to remind you its not that long ago that kickboxing promotions were outright banned from taking place in the north of Ireland only a few short years ago when a guy died after competing in a show in, I think, Tyrone.

Good post. Hard to disagree with any of that.

Roper

I won't directly get involved in the discussion about any specific show, but I'll just give my short opinion.

Pretty soon we'll be affiliated to the IMC through our Thai coach Paddy. When we were discussing the set up etc. I wanted to know the benefits of affiliation versus non affiliation, and Paddy went through that with me and the standards of judging, safety, refereeing etc. And I have to say that I wish we had something similar for MMA.

I think one of the reasons MMA hasn't had significant difficulties with judging etc. is that decisions are rare enough. Most fights finish within the distance and those that don't usually have a clear winner. Even bad matchmaking in MMA can be got away with as a fight can be finished without a guy getting mauled. Thai fights tend to be different as a lot will go to decision, the scoring system is extremely complex (more weight given to final rounds, different strikes are weighted higher etc.) and a bad match up might go the full distance with one guy getting savaged, never to be seen in the ring again.

Finally, and crucially, I think any attempt to gain recognition is to be applauded and supported as long as people are doing it in the interests of the sport.

dunkamania

I can live with the results of bad judging. Bad refereeing is what scares me.

debbie does

why doesnt the person putting forward his fighters put up his or her training in muay thai. if only to shut everybody else up. how long you have been training in muay thai not k1 not kickboxing or tae boi or boxercise. if you want to put kids or adults into the ring fighting muay thai . you damn well better know what your teaching