BBC 'sorry' for language comment

dlofnep

THE BBC has apologised after Irish language activists and Sinn Fein complained about a comment by one of its political correspondents during Sinn Fein MEP Bairbre de Brun's European election victory speech.

As Ms de Brun, who made history for Sinn Fein by topping the poll, spoke in Irish, the BBC lowered the volume on the televised speech and political correspondent Gareth Gordon said: "I'll say something in English until she says something in English."

Janet Muller of the Irish language umbrella organisation Pobal accused the BBC of "doubly breaking its commitments to representation of the Irish language on the airwaves".

"The implication of this action is of course that speeches in Irish by an elected representative of the European parliament, where Irish is an official language, should not be heard by the BBC's listeners," she said.

Ms Muller said that her organisation had complained to the head of the BBC Trust, Sir Michael Lyons, the head of BBC news, Angelina Fusco and the complaints branch of the BBC about the comment.

In a statement, the BBC apologised: "We accept that our reporter's comments and interjection during the initial part of Ms de Brun's speech were inappropriate and apologise for any offence which may have been caused. This was not our intention. We understand the importance of linguistic diversity and have been working to develop our minority language output."

http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/BBC-39sorry39-for-language-comment.5387470.jp

Very childish behaviour on behalf of the presenter.

JimmyFloyd

dlofnep wrote: »

http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/BBC-39sorry39-for-language-comment.5387470.jp

Very childish behaviour on behalf of the presenter.

Was this BBC NI?

dlofnep

It was.

conchubhar1

poor show

as i have great respect for the bbc in relation to its use of irish and its other great shows (top gear!)

seacht and some other gaeltacht soap type show are on it - its website has some great stuff for learners etc

Micilin Muc

Would it be true to say that the BBC on the whole do more for Irish than RTÉ?!
Think Seacht, Imeall Geal, Blas, Colin & Cumberland and documentaries on a Thursday night...

Hagar

My guess is was less about the Irish Language and more about instant censorship. They were caught off guard and couldn't tell what she was saying so they muted it. They don't trust SF even though the electorate seemed to.

tolosenc

Hagar's point is valid, but would they not have considered having an Irish speaker around for the eventuality that was a Shinner's election?

dlofnep

Micilin Muc wrote: »

Would it be true to say that the BBC on the whole do more for Irish than RTÉ?!
Think Seacht, Imeall Geal, Blas, Colin & Cumberland and documentaries on a Thursday night...

Oh, I don't doubt that. I think overall BBC do great things for the language. It was just sad to see this kind of childish behaviour.

conchubhar1

yes they do a lot

but you dont censor out a speaker - with pointless babble also, if they were actualy saying something of use it would be bad but that was uncalled for

mr chips

I want to counter the suggestion that the BBC do great things for the Irish language. They do not. Their investment in minority language broadcasting to cover Welsh, Scots-Gaelic and Irish has been and continues to be grossly discriminatory against Irish in comparison to the other two languages.

The following comes from a response to an OfCOM consultation from last year, submitted by Iontaobhas Ultach - the key figures follow the second paragraph:
http://www.ultach.dsl.pipex.com/english/Ofcom%27s%20Second%20PSB%20Review,%20Phase%20One,%20ULTACH%20Trust,%2017-06-08.doc

Funding from the Licence Fee dedicated to Irish language programming, however, amounts to only £950,000 a year and is spread across radio, television and the internet. Moreover, implicit in the BBC statement that “BBC Northern Ireland’s television programming in Irish benefits from the availability of financial support from the Irish Language Broadcast Fund (currently £1,200,000) is the fact that the BBC currently depends on the existence of the ILBF for almost two thirds of the costs of its Irish language television programming. (...) This is not a sound basis on which to build for the future.

Further, this commitment needs to be seen in comparison with the BBC’s commitment to Welsh and Scottish Gaelic, based on a comparison between the various indigenous language services during the year in which the 2001 Census was taken.

Ø In Wales, 533 hours of television programming were supplied at a cost of £16.4 million to 580,000 Welsh speakers –or £53 a head.

Ø In Scotland, it was 150 hours at a cost of £1.5 million to 63,444 speakers – or £64 a head.

Ø In Northern Ireland, it was 2 hours at £200,000 to 167,490 speakers – or £3 a head.

(These figures, of course, do not include direct Government funding, see later)

There has been an improvement since 2001 in the BBC’s Irish language television provision but the imbalance still remains. It is also too great a variation to deliver the BBC’s own Charter obligation with “regard to the importance of appropriate provision in minority languages.” What is “appropriate” in such a divergent result for Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland?


Here's some more stuff from the same document:

THE INDIGENOUS LANGUAGES OF THE UNITED KINGDOM: A COMPARISON

Currently, the Welsh and Scottish Gaelic languages are supported by different broadcasters, in different ways, with a different distribution of funding, from different sources.

S4C is established under the Broadcasting Act 1990 and the Communications Act 2003. The station receives £94 million per annum from the UK Government plus a requirement from the BBC by statute of 10 hours a week (500 hours a year). This would assume an annual investment of £120 million to service its 580,000 Welsh speakers – or just over £200 a head.

The number of people with a knowledge of Gaelic identified in the Scottish Census in 2001 was just over 92,000. The BBC provides 196 hours per annum of Gaelic television and currently spends £1.8 million per annum on Gaelic TV from the licence fee. Its capacity is increased by the Gaelic Media fund which provided the BBC and other broadcasters with more than £5 million in 2006/07 for television programmes. The annual spend in Scotland on Gaelic television is over £7 million. Spend per head on Gaelic television per annum is approximately £77. There are now plans to develop a Gaelic Digital Service with a much higher budget.

This compares with the Irish language funding through the ILBF of £3 million a year (£12m across four years’ operation) plus a part of the BBC spend of £950,000 a year for all media (to avoid double counting, since the BBC counts support from the fund) – let us assume (generously, since the BBC is also counting radio and internet spend) £3.5 million for 167,000 speakers – perhaps £20 a head.

The difference defies belief.

This also might make for interesting reading:
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200809/cmselect/cmniaf/memo/television/ucrb1202.htm

Feel free to do a little digging if ye're interested, but even a 100% increase in current Irish language programming/investment by the BBC would still be a fraction of what it should be.

dlofnep

Hm interesting. Very good post.

conchubhar1

if things were set out by population of speakers and done fairly


welsh should be given much more and gaelic less and irish is about right in fairness

tennessee time

bbc picking up seacht isnt about promoting linguistic diversity imo, seacht is just a brilliant show full stop........ seacht fan

asdasd

BBC alba has a ot of stuff, alright. I find it difficult to follow ( although i can generally read scots-gaelic)

Euro_Kraut

Hagar wrote: »

My guess is was less about the Irish Language and more about instant censorship. They were caught off guard and couldn't tell what she was saying so they muted it. They don't trust SF even though the electorate seemed to.

I think you are right that may have been the reason but there was no need for the side comment. Come across like an ignorant middle aged British man on holiday shouting at a waiter to 'Speak English!!'

Its was hardly unexpected that a Sinn Fein politician having won a seat in Northern Ireland would choose to speak in Irish.

dlofnep

asdasd wrote: »

BBC alba has a ot of stuff, alright. I find it difficult to follow ( although i can generally read scots-gaelic)

Are you from Scotland? I know a guy who can speak a bit of scots gaelic.. Alot of it resembles Ulster-Irish - Cad é mar atá tú/Ciamar a tha thu and so on..

I'm intested by all the languages.. Even Manx has started back up again

pablomakaveli

Reminds me of when i was watching Gerry Adams speech after the Provo IRA announced they were breaking up which i was watching on Sky news. He made a brief speech in Irish first. The sound was lowered and the sky presenter said they'd come back to the speech in a minute as they did'nt have a translator and then continued a discussion with a correspondent until he began talking in english.

They did the same thing when Brian Cowen made a speech in Irish first after the Lisbon result.

Its ridiculous really as its well known that they would speak in Irish when making an important announcement like these.

pablomakaveli

dlofnep wrote: »

Are you from Scotland? I know a guy who can speak a bit of scots gaelic.. Alot of it resembles Ulster-Irish - Cad é mar atá tú/Ciamar a tha thu and so on..

I'm intested by all the languages.. Even Manx has started back up again

It's very similar to Irish as it is from people who settled in Scotland from Ireland a few hundred years ago.

Scotland is named after the Irish tribe who settled there the Scotti.

If you've a decent knowledge of irish you can understand some of scot's gaelic as well.

asdasd

I know a guy who can speak a bit of scots gaelic.. Alot of it resembles Ulster-Irish - Cad é mar atá tú/Ciamar a tha thu and so on..

No, Irish. Thats what i mean by being able to read it, mostly.

asdasd

This is the Our Father in Scots Gaelic.


Ar n-Athair a tha air nèamh,
gu'm bu naomh a bios t'ainm,
gu'n tigeadh do riochachd,
gu'n dianar do thoil air talamh, mar tha's 'ga dianamh air nèamh.
Thoir dhuinn an diugh ar n-aran lathail,
agus math dhuinn ar fiachan,
mar a mhathas sinn do luchd ar fiach.
'S na leig ann am buaireadh sinn,
ach saor sinn o'm olc.
Amen

asdasd

there are differences but it is quite clear that is a dialect of Gaelic, and not substantially different from Irish Gaelic.

pablomakaveli

This website gives a comparision of Irish and Scots Gaelic.

http://www.smo.uhi.ac.uk/gaidhlig/ga-ge/coimeas.html

Pretty interesting to see the similarities.

mr chips

conchubhar1 wrote: »

if things were set out by population of speakers and done fairly


welsh should be given much more and gaelic less and irish is about right in fairness

Sorry conchubhar1, the figures I posted do not support your assertion. Just to draw out the bits I highlighted previously:

Welsh: annual investment of £120 million to service its 580,000 Welsh speakers – or just over £200 a head.

Scots-Gaelic: The annual spend in Scotland on Gaelic television is over £7 million. Spend per head on Gaelic television per annum is approximately £77. There are now plans to develop a Gaelic Digital Service with a much higher budget.

Irish: This compares with the Irish language funding through the ILBF of £3 million a year (£12m across four years’ operation) plus a part of the BBC spend of £950,000 a year for all media (to avoid double counting, since the BBC counts support from the fund) – let us assume (generously, since the BBC is also counting radio and internet spend) £3.5 million for 167,000 speakers – perhaps £20 a head.

So the current annual figures are £200 per head for Welsh speakers, £77 per head for Scots-Gaelic speakers, and just £20 per head for Irish speakers. I really don't see how this is "about right" - it looks extremely discriminatory to me. Since Welsh currently receives nearly three times as much financial support per speaker as Scots-Gaelic, and at least ten times as much support per speaker as Irish, how do you figure that Welsh deserves to be at the head of the queue for an increase in funding?

I'd be quite happy for more money to be spent on Welsh, btw, but would simply like to see spending on Scots-Gaelic and especially on Irish first, considering the long-standing historic deficit in equity of funding.

mr chips

mr chips wrote: »

Sorry conchubhar1, the figures I posted do not support your assertion. Just to draw out the bits I highlighted previously:

Welsh: annual investment of £120 million to service its 580,000 Welsh speakers – or just over £200 a head.

Scots-Gaelic: The annual spend in Scotland on Gaelic television is over £7 million. Spend per head on Gaelic television per annum is approximately £77. There are now plans to develop a Gaelic Digital Service with a much higher budget.

Irish: This compares with the Irish language funding through the ILBF of £3 million a year (£12m across four years’ operation) plus a part of the BBC spend of £950,000 a year for all media (to avoid double counting, since the BBC counts support from the fund) – let us assume (generously, since the BBC is also counting radio and internet spend) £3.5 million for 167,000 speakers – perhaps £20 a head.

So the current annual figures are £200 per head for Welsh speakers, £77 per head for Scots-Gaelic speakers, and just £20 per head for Irish speakers. I really don't see how this is "about right" - it looks extremely discriminatory to me. Since Welsh currently receives nearly three times as much financial support per speaker as Scots-Gaelic, and at least ten times as much support per speaker as Irish, how do you figure that Welsh deserves to be at the head of the queue for an increase in funding?

I'd be quite happy for more money to be spent on Welsh, btw, but would simply like to see spending on Scots-Gaelic and especially on Irish first, considering the long-standing historic deficit in equity of funding.

You should never forget the power of the welsh political groups like plaid cymru in promoting Cymraeg, welsh has equal status in Wales.
Gàidhlig in Scotland doesn't have the same status and Gaeilge in NI of course has even less for political reasons.

Status of the language plays a large part in it's promotion/funding.

dlofnep

Are the scots gaelic figures correct I wonder? I've never met a scottish person, besides one guy who knew anymore than a few words. I know up north of Scotland there are pockets of villages where it survives - but the figures seem generous.. but hopefully not.

asdasd

I know up north of Scotland there are pockets of villages where it survives - but the figures seem generous.. but hopefully not.

Scotland is bigger than you think. It is common enough in the highlands. Lowlanders are saxons...

dlofnep

asdasd wrote: »

Scotland is bigger than you think. It is common enough in the highlands. Lowlanders are saxons...

I found this.. Interesting



It would appear that the Hebrides, the Outer Hebrides moreso is the largest concentration of speakers: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outer_Hebrides

mr chips

Deleted User wrote: »

You should never forget the power of the welsh political groups like plaid cymru in promoting Cymraeg, welsh has equal status in Wales.
Gàidhlig in Scotland doesn't have the same status and Gaeilge in NI of course has even less for political reasons.

Status of the language plays a large part in it's promotion/funding.

The highlighted part is not correct, particularly in relation to Scots Gaelic (Gaidhlig na hAlbain). Gàidhlig enjoys the same legal status as Welsh and a greater legal status than Irish/Gaeilge, as in Wales and Scotland there exist Language Acts for Welsh and Gàidhlig respectively. Northern Ireland is the only part of the UK whose indigenous minority language (under Part III of the European Charter) does not have a Language Act, in respect of Irish. This is in spite of the fact that the St Andrew's Agreement included an agreement between the two governments (London and Dublin) that there should be an Irish Language Act.

The UK ratified Part III of the European Charter for Regional or Minority Languages in 2001 in respect of Irish, Gàidhlig and Welsh. This places a duty on governments to take "strong action" to protect and promote the named languages. Among other things, it also places a duty on governments to provide education through, and end discrimination against the named languages. The lack of proper support for education and media in Northern Ireland is to my eyes a clear breach of the legal obligations the UK took upon itself eight years ago.

dlofnep

I marched in Belfast last year for the Irish language Act - Over 5000 people turned out. It's safe to say, that Irish is an important issue to many people there, and in my opinion - sometimes moreso than in the South.

mr chips

I was on that march too!! Somebody passed me the bullhorn as we started to get closer to the city centre - belted out "Acht Gaeilge!" till my throat was ruined, good day's craic though.

Just found an article I was looking for that relates to the discussion - haven't got an English translation of it yet but will have a look for that later on.

From An Druma Mór, http://andrumamornuacht.blogspot.com/search?q=Janet+Muller&submit.x=0&submit.y=0

Náisiúin Aontaithe míshásta le drogall Westminster
D’éirigh le POBAL, scátheagras phobal na Gaeilge ó thuaidh tacaíocht gan réamhshampla a fháil ó na Náisiúin Aontaithe d’Acht na Gaeilge. Dúirt Comhairle Eacnamaíoch agus Sóisialta na NA gur chúis imní í nach bhfuil cosaint reachtaíochta ann don Ghaeilge i dTÉ, go háirithe i bhfianaise Acht na Breatnaise agus Acht na Gaidhlig in Albain.
Dúirt Janet Muller, príomhfheidhmeannach POBAL, ‘D’oibrigh POBAL thar bliain iomlán leis an cheist seo a chur ar chlár na NA. Seo an chéad uair riamh go raibh tagairtí chomh suntasach seo ar chúrsaí teanga i dtuairisc na NA ar chearta eacnamaíoch, sóisialta agus cultúrtha. Tá tábhacht ar leith le moladh na Comhairle Eacnamaíoch agus Sóisialta chomh maith, mar go léiríonn sé go h-an soiléir go bhfuil freagracht ar rialtas na Breataine agus ar Thionól TÉ maidir le reachtaíocht don Ghaeilge. Mar sin, níl éalú ar bith ann níos mó do rialtas na Breataine. Má choinníonn an Tionól don diúltiú, beidh ar Westminster gníomh dá réir.’
Chuir an NA moltaí chun tosaigh mar gheall ar sraith d’aighneachtaí scríofa a fuair siad thar ama ó POBAL, a g béimiú an bearna reachtaíochtaí i leith na Gaeilge, an cosc ar úsáid na Gaeilge sna cúirteanna agus an easpa cosanta do chraoltóireacht Ghaeilge ó thuaidh. Duirt janet Muller, ‘d’fhreastal me ar chruinniú i Stormont chomh maith le hionadaithe ó rialtas na Breataine, agus bhí me in ann dúshlán a chur roimh na freagraí a thug siad do na NA maidir le cosaint agus caomhnú na Gaeilge ó thuaidh. Taispeánann tacaíocht na NA cé chomh tábhachtach is atá sé guth láidir a bheith ag pobal na Gaeilge ó thuaidh ar na ceisteanna seo.’
Tagann moltaí na Comhairle Eacnamaíoch agus Sóisialta go gairid i ndiaidh do rialtas na Breataine tuairisc neamhchríochnaithe a chur roimh Chomhairle na hEorpa maidir le cur i gcríoch Chairt an hEorpa do Theangacha Réigiúnacha nó Mionlaigh. An tseachtain seo caite, bhí ar rialtas na Breataine doiciméad neamhiomlán a chur isteach de bhrí nár aontaíodh cuid an Tionóil.

mr chips

Ok, couldn't find a specific article relating to this so here's a very quick (and unpolished!) translation:

Pobal, the umbrella group for Irish in the north, has succeeded in gaining unprecedented support from the United Nations for an Irish Language Act. The UN Economic and Social Council said it was a cause for concern that there is no statutory protection for Irish in Northern Ireland, particularly in light of the Welsh Language Act and Acht na Gaidhlig in Scotland.
[FONT=&quot]Janet Muller, Chief Executive of POBAL, said “POBAL worked over a whole year to get this question put before the UN. This is the first time ever that a UN report on economic, social and cultural rights has contained such prominent references to language issues. The Economic and Social Council’s recommendation has a particular importance, as it makes very clear that the British government and the Northern Ireland Executive have a responsibility to introduce Irish language legislation. Therefore, there is no longer an escape route for the British government. If the (Northern Ireland) Executive continues its refusal, Westminster will have to act.”[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The UN put forward recommendations because of a series of written submissions they received over time from POBAL, emphasising the legislative vacuum in relation to Irish, the refusal to use Irish in the courts and the lack of protection for Irish language broadcasting in the north. Janet Muller said, “I attended a meeting in Stormont along with representatives from the British government and was able to challenge the answers they gave the UN in relation to the protection and conservation of Irish in the north. The UN’s support shows how important it is for the Irish language community to have a strong voice in relation to these questions.”[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]The Economic and Social Council’s recommendations follow the British government’s submission to the Council of Europe of an incomplete report on the implementation of the European Charter for Regional and Minority Languages. Last week, the British government had to to submit an incomplete report because it was not agreed by part of the Northern Ireland Assembly.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

conchubhar1

mr chips wrote: »

Sorry conchubhar1, the figures I posted do not support your assertion. Just to draw out the bits I highlighted previously:

oh i saw the figures


but the number of speakers of welsh and the amount of daily speakers, fluent speakers compared to the population does not compare

wales may only have so many speakers compared to ireland - but the amount that use it daily as a language is vastly higher

plus we have to add in the fact that wales, on the whole is seen and feels part of britain.

northern ireland is 55-45 - ish. very general figure but you get my point.

it isnt discriminatory - they only have to base their broadcasting on how many northern irish daily speakers there are and learners.

in northern ireland do you believe there is 170,000 speakers of irish in northern ireland of the same quality and usage as welsh?

figures and stats dont quite show the whole picture

mr chips

Well Wales has 580,000 speakers compared to our 167,000 - so it wouldn't surprise me that the number of daily speakers is currently greater in Wales, and more power to them.

Your point that Wales "on the whole is seen and feels part of Britain" isn't really relevant - first of all, it's a subjective supposition, and secondly it doesn't have any bearing on the legal obligations that the UK is bound to under the Charter in terms of protecting and promoting its indigenous minority languages, including Irish. However, I'll answer the point - lots of people in Wales may well feel British, but that doesn't mean they can't also feel Welsh, or that those who feel British will for some reason be hostile to speaking Welsh. Similarly, I've met plenty of people on Íle (Islay) who feel no sense of conflict about being British, Scottish, Unionist and Gaelic, and who speak Gàidhlig as a first language. I doubt that they're unique in having that level of maturity about their identity.

When you say that Northern Ireland is 55-45 ish, I guess you're referring to the approximate breakdown of the population in terms of their religious background. This is not a basis for legislating to support any minority language - the language has value in its own right, regardless of what section of society speaks it. In addition, you might be interested to google "Ian Malcolm" to read about his research into attitudes to Irish among the Protestant population in the north.

The BBC's approach IS discriminatory, precisely because they allocate a far lower proportion of their financial resources and scheduling hours to Irish, when compared to what BBC Wales/BBC Scotland do, even when taking into account the number of daily speakers and learners. I don't think I can make that any clearer for you.

Speaking of learners, Irish-medium schools are the fastest-growing educational sector in the north, and have been since the mid-nineties. To my mind, this growth market is another reason that the BBC should be increasing, not restricting, its Irish language output.

Personally I like to rely on hard information rather than supposition and subjective, baseless opinion. The same statistics and methodology are used in Northern Ireland, in Scotland and in Wales to identify the number of speakers of the relevant minority language. I don't see how you can accept the figures for Scotland and Wales, yet doubt the figures for Northern Ireland.