EU / Government backed Pro Lisbon treaty propaganda machine is launched

Run_to_da_hills

Reading the RTE news it looks like we will be bombarded with Pro Lisbon propaganda for the next 5 months leading up to Lisbon 2.

Now with Ganley out of the picture the country badly need resistance to this Euro / state backed brainwashing organization.

Anyone that is seen resisting the Pro Lisbon lobby group could possibly be treated as dissidents and be harassed by the authorities. :eek:

It might even become illegal to speak out against the Lisbon treaty.:eek:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0621/eulisbon.html

galwayrush

Best ignore it then, :rolleyes:

My name is URL

tbh if Ireland don't vote yes this time we'll be so far distanced from the rest of Europe that the problems we have atm will be even worse and harder to recover from.

I voted No last time btw

mike65

Was RTTH expecting the government to launch an anti-Lisbon propaganda group?

Red Alert

Bend over, biffo's coming...

Max Power1

mike65 wrote: »

Was RTTH expecting the government to launch an anti-Lisbon propaganda group?

well we already have libertas! dont need another anti lisbon propaganda group

galwayrush

My name is URL wrote: »

tbh if Ireland don't vote yes this time we'll be so far distanced from the rest of Europe that the problems we have atm will be even worse and harder to recover from.

I voted No last time btw

Yep, we've proved we really need someone to take care of us, because we're a disaster on our own, too many cock ups to list.
Although i am pro Europe, I voted no the last time as well,because i couldn't make head or tail of it, and neither could any politician i asked to explain it. :rolleyes:

galwayrush

Red Alert wrote: »

Bend over, biffo's coming...

Yeah, all our arses will be sore and reeking of turf.:eek:

Wertz

I don't care what bullsh*t they come out with, I'm sticking with what I said last time around, illegal, unpopular or otherwise.
TBH Rtdh, I don't see in that piece where it says that anything about "dissidents" or the legalities of expressing a negative opinion on Lisbon....what are they really going to do...throw people in jail?
I guess they'd better get busy throwing up that new prison in Thonrton Hall then hadn't they...

Ghost Train

A new independent organisation committed to promoting a Yes vote in the forthcoming referendum on the Lisbon Treaty has been launched in Dublin

the title of this thread is totally misleading... independent does not equal goverment backed :rolleyes:
Shame on you

Joe C

My name is URL wrote: »

tbh if Ireland don't vote yes this time we'll be so far distanced from the rest of Europe that the problems we have atm will be even worse and harder to recover from.

I voted No last time btw

You really believe that ?

Our problems were created by a cabal of developers, bankers and Fianna Fail.

The EU has nothing to do with it, giving up more power to unelected European politicians won't benefit the country in the short medium or long term.

brianthebard

My name is URL wrote: »

tbh if Ireland don't vote yes this time we'll be so far distanced from the rest of Europe that the problems we have atm will be even worse and harder to recover from.

I voted No last time btw

You probably didn't vote No on any principled reason so?

My name is URL

brianthebard wrote: »

You probably didn't vote No on any principled reason so?

I voted no mostly because it was pretty much incomprehensible.

An Fear Aniar

Joe C wrote: »

You really believe that ?

Our problems were created by a cabal of developers, bankers and Fianna Fail.

The EU has nothing to do with it, giving up more power to unelected European politicians won't benefit the country in the short medium or long term.

Attaboy! Exactly this. +1000


.

shamblertine

It'll all be a big waste of time and money. Polls showed months ago that if there was a new referendum, the yes vote would win comfortably, and that was before the new guarantees about tax/neutrality/social affairs were put in place.

Joe C

shamblertine wrote: »

It'll all be a big waste of time and money. Polls showed months ago that if there was a new referendum, the yes vote would win comfortably, and that was before the new guarantees about tax/neutrality/social affairs were put in place.

Can you point out the sections of the Lisbon Treaty where those guarantees are placed please ?

dont bite the hand that feeds and while ur at it, dont drive any of those roads they built us either

declan ganley should crawl of and die as far as i'm concerned

galwayrush

Joe C wrote: »

Can you point out the sections of the Lisbon Treaty where those guarantees are placed please ?

Our Government said so, and of course they are always honest and looking out for our best interests..........................oh wait............ :rolleyes:

Run_to_da_hills

Max Power1 wrote: »

well we already have libertas! dont need another anti lisbon propaganda group

Edited:
"well we already had libertas! dont need another anti lisbon propaganda group "

galwayrush

Deleted User wrote: »

dont bite the hand that feeds and while ur at it, dont drive any of those roads they built us either

declan ganley should crawl of and die as far as i'm concerned

It wasn't Ganley's fault no one could understand the last Treaty.:rolleyes:

shamblertine

Joe C wrote: »

Can you point out the sections of the Lisbon Treaty where those guarantees are placed please ?

ok not set in stone yet but will be sorted soon:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0617/eulisbon.html

Joe C

shamblertine wrote: »

ok not set in stone yet but will be sorted soon:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0617/eulisbon.html

The question you've got ask is why not simply insert the guarantees into the LIsbon Treaty, it would be more straightforward wouldn't it ?

galwayrush

galwayrush wrote: »

It wasn't Ganley's fault no one could understand the last Treaty.:rolleyes:

to use his to his own advantage is why i hate him.. a european party based on something we shud neve have been allowed to vote on?

i say that because since none of us understood, how can we vote on it.. give the power in this case to economists who understand what ia good for a country and dont have their own agenda

Joe C

Joe C wrote: »

The question you've got ask is why not simply insert the guarantees into the LIsbon Treaty, it would be more straightforward wouldn't it ?

would all the countries not have to approve it again then?

BaconZombie

I'm sick of heard the politicians harp on about the guarantees.

The main reason I voted no and will again is that the treaty is self-ratifying.

So once it is enacted they can change it without going back to a vote.......

shamblertine wrote: »

It'll all be a big waste of time and money. Polls showed months ago that if there was a new referendum, the yes vote would win comfortably, and that was before the new guarantees about tax/neutrality/social affairs were put in place.

shamblertine

BOFH_139 wrote: »

I'm sick of heard the politicians harp on about the guarantees.

The main reason I voted no and will again is that the treaty is self-ratifying.

So once it is enacted they can change it without going back to a vote.......

but the legal guarantees are separate, so they can't interfere with our tax rate, which is all anyone really gives a sh1t about anyway if we're honest

BaconZombie

The so called "guarantees" are not legally binding, the people who gave them do not have the power/authorisation to do so.

Joe C wrote: »

The question you've got ask is why not simply insert the guarantees into the LIsbon Treaty, it would be more straightforward wouldn't it ?

Deleted User wrote: »

would all the countries not have to approve it again then?

shamblertine wrote: »

but the legal guarantees are separate, so they can't interfere with our tax rate, which is all anyone really gives a sh1t about anyway if we're honest

Hayes7

I'm voting No on principle. The principle of Democracy. It is simple undemocratic to say the voters got it wrong and try again until we get it right.

A No vote does not mean an exit from Europe nor does it mean Economic isolation. Any foreign or domestic leader who suggests this is using coercion.

I also find it a huge insult to say that the voters didn't understand the issues. I think the voters know very well what was on the table.

Joe C

Joe C wrote: »

You really believe that ?

Our problems were created by a cabal of developers, bankers and Fianna Fail.

The EU has nothing to do with it, giving up more power to unelected European politicians won't benefit the country in the short medium or long term.

If anything the EU made things worse. The reason our inflation rates were so high during the boom times were because the ECB kept interest rates low in order to stimulate the German economy, while at the same time we needed higher rates to curb inflation. The Euro is a great idea in principle but because we can't control our monetary policy anymore it will make this recession harder to shake off.

Euro_Kraut

Ah before this goes any further... this group are not Government backed.

Euro_Kraut

Hayes7 wrote: »

I also find it a huge insult to say that the voters didn't understand the issues. I think the voters know very well what was on the table.

If you read through this thread some posters have already said that they voted no because they couldn't understand the treaty.

Run_to_da_hills

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

Ah before this goes any further... this group are not Government backed.

Im sure if it was an anti Lisbon lobby group the Government would be very quick to suppress it. :rolleyes:

http://www.politics.ie/lisbon-treaty/37237-politicians-want-alive-newspaper-banned-churches.html

galwayrush

Will the Treaty bring back the Spice Burger?:rolleyes:

Karsini

Karsini wrote: »

If anything the EU made things worse. The reason our inflation rates were so high during the boom times were because the ECB kept interest rates low in order to stimulate the German economy, while at the same time we needed higher rates to curb inflation. The Euro is a great idea in principle but because we can't control our monetary policy anymore it will make this recession harder to shake off.

i'm sorry but i think it's crazy that you are allowed to vote on an eu matter.

eu made things worse? my fuking god go study some economics will ya and stop quoting somethin ya heard over a pint

Joe C

Deleted User wrote: »

i'm sorry but i think it's crazy that you are allowed to vote on an eu matter.

eu made things worse? my fuking god go study some economics will ya and stop quoting somethin ya heard over a pint

He's right.

You think it's crazy to be able to vote on an EU matter ? Why ?

Do you not think we should have a say on our future ?

Run_to_da_hills

Edited title

Hayes7

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

If you read through this thread some posters have already said that they voted no because they couldn't understand the treaty.

Well that is true when you are talking about the finer details of the treaty. But lets say the people voted no on the issue of a more unified Europe. Well that fact is not in question, that was widely understood by the voters.

Also a few posts on a forum is not representative of the voting public.

brianthebard

My name is URL wrote: »

I voted no mostly because it was pretty much incomprehensible.

That hasn't changed-do you still intend to vote no?

dotsman

Joe C wrote: »

Our problems were created by a cabal of developers, bankers and Fianna Fail. .

An Fear Aniar wrote: »

Attaboy! Exactly this. +1000


.

Actually, the fact that people believe this $hit is the cause of all our problems.

i meant that anyone who thinks the eu made things worse don't really have a strong basis for a vote..

yes i think we should be able to vote but the complexity of the treaty and the massive anti-lisbon campaign made it a farce.

coupled with that, people on the anti-lisbon boat were more likely to vote.. this time, people like myself will make the 4 hour journey to help make sure a no vote doesn't happen again

brianthebard

Deleted User wrote: »

to use his to his own advantage is why i hate him.. a european party based on something we shud neve have been allowed to vote on?

i say that because since none of us understood, how can we vote on it.. give the power in this case to economists who understand what ia good for a country and dont have their own agenda

Epic lolz, you don't think economists have agendas? you don't think economists in the finance dept were every bit as responsible for the bubble and subsequent burst as Cowen?

My name is URL

brianthebard wrote: »

That hasn't changed-do you still intend to vote no?

I haven't decided yet. An opinion poll last month said that 52% were in favor of the revised treaty with 29% against it. So if I decided to change my vote I wouldn't be the only one.

brianthebard

brianthebard wrote: »

Epic lolz, you don't think economists have agendas? you don't think economists in the finance dept were every bit as responsible for the bubble and subsequent burst as Cowen?

our universities top professors couldn't give a more informed decision than either you or i?

just one of my old economics lecturers could give a better opinion than the rest of us combined as far as i'm concerned

Hayes7

brianthebard wrote: »

Epic lolz, you don't think economists have agendas? you don't think economists in the finance dept were every bit as responsible for the bubble and subsequent burst as Cowen?

Well said Brian. Ad by Google clearly isn't a big fan of a thing called democracy.

Bandit12

My name is URL wrote: »

tbh if Ireland don't vote yes this time we'll be so far distanced from the rest of Europe that the problems we have atm will be even worse and harder to recover from.

I voted No last time btw

This is the reason i'll be voting no again. Nothing has changed this time around.

javaboy

Politics Forum is here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=99
European section: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=1069

That would be a better place to have this discussion.