20/20 Final...Pakistan v Sri Lanka

Rjd2

It’s the final on Sunday so let’s have a thread for it! Sri Lanka are favourites and it is easy to see why, Dilshan is in awesome form and their bowling is pretty special, doubts persist over their middle order, Silva, Matthews and Murabek do not inspire confidence, however they have yet to be exposed to much as the top order has done the business in nearly every game. Pakistan is a, mixed bag, Akmal can be destructive but has a tendency to throw his wicket away, Malik has been strangely subdued and Afrifi is horribly unpredictable. Gul however is an absolute superstar. Both sides will want to bat first so the toss will be crucial as I don’t fancy either to chase too big of a score.I tip Sri Lanka but it would be folly to totally rule out a side with the likes of Gul and Afridi.

Dozen Wicked Words

Hopefully Sri Lanka will win but all credit to Pakistan for making the final after a turbulent year (even by their standards) for Pakistani cricket.

Oh, and well done to England Women for cementing their place as the best team in the world in Women's Cricket.


Wow. They totally out thought Dilshan.

0 for 1

rednik

2 down now in the 2nd over, great stuff.

rednik

Not looking like Sri Lanka are going to post a good target.

rednik

A great partnership by Sangakkarra and Matthews have given Sri Lanka a chance. It looked like they hadn't a chance but a captains innings by Sangakkarra has given them chance. Should be a great match now.

glanman

Pakistan looking good at this stage

Placebo

great well deserved win for pakistan, true champions


have to feel for srilanka, they won all their games and abdul razzaq is not an amazing bowler.

rednik

Just watching the highlights again before hading to work and I have to say what as great innings by Afridi. I thought Sangakkarra had given Sri Lanka some hope but it wasn't to be. The final didn't live up to expectation but overall was a very good tournament and well done Pakistan.

westtip

I'm Just delighted that a team with a cheating chucker like Malinga in it - pitching the ball down the wicket didn't win.

d'Oracle

westtip wrote: »

I'm Just delighted that a team with a cheating chucker like Malinga in it - pitching the ball down the wicket didn't win.

FFS.

He doesn't Chuck.
Learn the rules of cricket.

legend73

d'Oracle wrote: »

FFS.

He doesn't Chuck.
Learn the rules of cricket.

Well he technically did chuck according the the laws, however he has a disspensation from the ICC and they changed the laws to accomadate him due to political pressures. That being said it has provided him an advantage over his career.

There are many schools of thought on Murali. Does he chuck or not? Donald Bradman seems to think he doesn't.

To add more technical evidence to the view.

Law 24.3 states:

"A ball is fairly delivered in respect to the arm if, once the bowler's arm has reached the level of the shoulder in the delivery swing, the elbow joint is not straightened partially or completely from that point until the ball has left the hand.

"This definition shall not debar a bowler from flexing or rotating the wrist in the delivery swing."

Before Murali was controversially no-balled for chucking, a bowler was allowed to bend and then straighten his arm by 10-degrees if a fast bowler, and by 5-degrees if a spin bowler. Any more, and the bowler was judged to be chucking.

Murali was found, after rigorous testing, to bend his arm by 14-degrees, 9 more than allowed by the rulebook, when bowling his doosra the "special" delivery that he was no-balled for. Even when he spent time in the bio-mechanical testing arena he was unable to get his elbow-extension below the 10 degree mark. Still 5+ degrees in excess of the rules.

Instead of holding Murali to the rulebook the ICC decided to change the rules to allow bending of the arm to 15 degrees. One can only assume this drastic increase was created to cover all of Murali's deliveries because he has such a huge fan base on the sub continent and ruling him out of the game would just about kill cricket over there.

The ICC commissioned 7 of former international cricketers (from a number of teams) to develop a set of new regulations (which were brought into practice on 1 March 2005) amongst them the new elbow flex angle of 15 degrees - to demonstrate that it was a universal decision of change. You could say prior to this that his test, ODI, First Class, Domestic records are null and void as he was a chucker

Sunil Gavaskar (Former Indian batsman), Michael Holding ( Former West Indian fast bowler), Tim May (Former Australian off spinner), Aravinda de Silva (Former Sri Lankan batsman),
Tony Lewis (Former England captain), Angus Fraser (Former England fast bowler - did they have any? hehehe), David Richardson (Former South African wicket-keeper) were amongst those who created the new regulations which mean that Murali can no longer be called for a no-ball.

He now holds two new records:

1. The highest number runs given away by a bowler in a ODI in a 10 over spell.

2. The highest number of runs conceded in a ODI without taking a wicket.

Ouch! on both counts. It kind've puts paid to the argument of him being "the best spin bowler in one day cricket". After that effort he isn't.

Whether he is a chucker or not however, is probably a question that will never be answered unequivocally. According to the game, he was and now he isn't but his action hasn't changed.... the laws did.

TrueDub

legend73 wrote: »

Well he technically did chuck according the the laws, however he has a disspensation from the ICC and they changed the laws to accomadate him due to political pressures. That being said it has provided him an advantage over his career.

There are many schools of thought on Murali. Does he chuck or not? Donald Bradman seems to think he doesn't.

The conversation was about Laslith Malinga, not Murali.

legend73 wrote: »

To add more technical evidence to the view.

Law 24.3 states:

"A ball is fairly delivered in respect to the arm if, once the bowler's arm has reached the level of the shoulder in the delivery swing, the elbow joint is not straightened partially or completely from that point until the ball has left the hand.

"This definition shall not debar a bowler from flexing or rotating the wrist in the delivery swing."

Before Murali was controversially no-balled for chucking, a bowler was allowed to bend and then straighten his arm by 10-degrees if a fast bowler, and by 5-degrees if a spin bowler. Any more, and the bowler was judged to be chucking.

Murali was found, after rigorous testing, to bend his arm by 14-degrees, 9 more than allowed by the rulebook, when bowling his doosra the "special" delivery that he was no-balled for. Even when he spent time in the bio-mechanical testing arena he was unable to get his elbow-extension below the 10 degree mark. Still 5+ degrees in excess of the rules.

Instead of holding Murali to the rulebook the ICC decided to change the rules to allow bending of the arm to 15 degrees. One can only assume this drastic increase was created to cover all of Murali's deliveries because he has such a huge fan base on the sub continent and ruling him out of the game would just about kill cricket over there.

It may have been a political decision, but the idea of it "killing cricket over there" is absurd. The game is deeply ingrained in Indian, Pakistani, Bangladeshi and Sri Lankan life.

legend73 wrote: »

The ICC commissioned 7 of former international cricketers (from a number of teams) to develop a set of new regulations (which were brought into practice on 1 March 2005) amongst them the new elbow flex angle of 15 degrees - to demonstrate that it was a universal decision of change.

<snip>

Whether he is a chucker or not however, is probably a question that will never be answered unequivocally. According to the game, he was and now he isn't but his action hasn't changed.... the laws did.

Note: Regulations, not laws. Those regulations are for first-class cricket and above (inc ODIs & T20s). They do not apply in "regular" cricket, for want of a better term. The Law (as you quoted above) has not changed.

legend73

Hahaha - Malinga, he doesnt chuck h slings. He has one of the best and most enjoyable actions in the world.

So that being said all the above applies to Malinga to and I think you'll find he is technically and 100% biomechanicaly sound.

legend73

TrueDub wrote: »

It may have been a political decision, but the idea of it "killing cricket over there" is absurd. The game is deeply ingrained in Indian, Pakistani, Bangladeshi and Sri Lankan life.

Note: Regulations, not laws. Those regulations are for first-class cricket and above (inc ODIs & T20s). They do not apply in "regular" cricket, for want of a better term. The Law (as you quoted above) has not changed.

Well yes cricket would not be dead - but the point is illustrative of the impact it might have. Like the NBA in the US - when MJ retired I felt a massive hole in the game occured, he was just so watchable.

1000% apologies for talking Murali when it was Malinga - I need to get my prescription checked. Rock n' Roll.

TrueDub

legend73 wrote: »

Well yes cricket would not be dead - but the point is illustrative of the impact it might have. Like the NBA in the US - when MJ retired I felt a massive hole in the game occured, he was just so watchable.

But yet the NBA continues, and new stars continue to emerge. So the point's not that illustrative. Pedantic, I know, but there you are.

legend73

Yep that was my point - but none have come close in my opinion.

d'Oracle

legend73 wrote: »

Instead of holding Murali to the rulebook the ICC decided to change the rules to allow bending of the arm to 15 degrees. One can only assume this drastic increase was created to cover all of Murali's deliveries because he has such a huge fan base on the sub continent and ruling him out of the game would just about kill cricket over there.

The ICC commissioned 7 of former international cricketers (from a number of teams) to develop a set of new regulations (which were brought into practice on 1 March 2005) amongst them the new elbow flex angle of 15 degrees - to demonstrate that it was a universal decision of change. You could say prior to this that his test, ODI, First Class, Domestic records are null and void as he was a chucker

Just on this, You are making some absolutly absurd jumps here.
So much so that its actually irrational.

Murali was no-balled (in this case) for his Doosra. The Doosra is a hard delivery to throw without flexing the elbow, as Johan Botha found out recently and he has a conventional action. Factor in the fact that he delivers wrist spin to the off side, despite his freakish wrists, this is very difficult to do. Try it. I bet you cant do it. Its certainly not a chuck anyway because the flexion wouldnt be contussive to propelling the ball forward.

You cannot rationally make the jump from the doosra to all of his deliveries. It just doesnt work like that.

Furthermore, Murali's action, while being very unconventional, is mainly sound. His off-break and quicker one are both legal and When they were no-balled by Darryl Hair which was found to be nonsense at testing.

The increase was made to the allowed angle because he was found to be incapable to reducing the apparent flexion.
One player quitting wont make cricket die in the sub-continent. Its utter nonsense to say so.

The fact is that his (proven) perfectly acceptable stock delivery action is sound, but again quirky and unconventional.

westtip

d'Oracle wrote: »

FFS.

He doesn't Chuck.
Learn the rules of cricket.

Say what you like mate. He wouldn't be allowed on a cricket field delivering the ball the way he does in the school I went to - and I have played cricket from about the age of 8 to ...well now a good 40 years or more - we all have an opinion so IMO FFS and any other abbreviations you want to use he is an F'ing chucker, the fact he is allowed to get away with it shows how much the international cricket board has to pander to this nonsense, it would be great to see an umpire with b***ls to put the arm out and no-ball him ball after ball after ball - He is a chucker, and if he can't bowl the way you're supposed to he should take up baseball.

TrueDub

westtip wrote: »

He is a chucker, and if he can't bowl the way you're supposed to he should take up baseball.

Ok, please explain how he chucks and how it contravenes the relevant laws of the game. Genuinely, I'm interested in your reasoning.

legend73

The debate rages on.

Murali cannot straighten his arm regardless if it is stock or the doosra or if he was having a spank. No one has a pratractor out on the pitch and the umpires make the best calls they can at the time.

Malinga the slinga is good to go.

I've never had to face them, never will so I don't give a toss personally. All my arguments are in the original post, so wont repeat myself for the sake of keeping this thread alive.

I believe the Pakistani's one the game. end of.