Tracking an orphan's past

Alicat

My nana was an orphan, or at least she was dumped in a convent in Roscommon as a little girl in the 20's or 30's. She's very unsure of what happened and doesn't seem to remember much. She's not even sure what her official birth name is (there were rumours of a scandal regarding her parentage and a local priest)

I contacted the convent in Roscommon were she supposedly was but they say they have no record of her.

Is there any way of tracking her past?

Ostrom

Alicat wrote: »

My nana was an orphan, or at least she was dumped in a convent in Roscommon as a little girl in the 20's or 30's. She's very unsure of what happened and doesn't seem to remember much. She's not even sure what her official birth name is (there were rumours of a scandal regarding her parentage and a local priest)

I contacted the convent in Roscommon were she supposedly was but they say they have no record of her.

Is there any way of tracking her past?

I would cautiously say (having been through this myself in a much less complicated form tracing my birth parents, and later on behalf of an American lady) that unless you get very very lucky with agency records, you have little chance of a definite answer.

The records of the institutions in question, where she could possibly have ended up are most likely under the care of the HSE, possibly an adoption society. You might try the adoption board (here, on boards). I was unsuccessful at my own attempt, records had a much greater tendency (and the process was much more formally facilitated) to vanish around the time in question.

Do you have any details at all that could start you off? Where was she placed?

The format of pre-1966 birth records is also different, complicating it further

brianthebard

pinkypinky is probably the best person to answer this question. I wonder would it be easier to trace the parish priest or people associated with her life, rather than her adoption? For instance, if the priest was moved from the diocese soon after her birth that might be a sign that the rumours were correct? the parish records should be easier to find than the adoption records? This would not be anywhere near guaranteed of course.

Alicat

efla wrote: »

I would cautiously say (having been through this myself in a much less complicated form tracing my birth parents, and later on behalf of an American lady) that unless you get very very lucky with agency records, you have little chance of a definite answer.

The records of the institutions in question, where she could possibly have ended up are most likely under the care of the HSE, possibly an adoption society. You might try the adoption board (here, on boards). I was unsuccessful at my own attempt, records had a much greater tendency (and the process was much more formally facilitated) to vanish around the time in question.

Do you have any details at all that could start you off? Where was she placed?

The format of pre-1966 birth records is also different, complicating it further

Well I know it was in Ballaghdereen in Roscommon but we have no idea if she was born here. I've searched a number of genealogy websites but have yet to come across any sort of lead. She remembers life in the convent but not to any significant detail. I went to see her today and she remembered the name of her best friend in the convent at the time. It's an unusual name for Roscommon in the 1930's so I'm hoping that if I find records of that girl, I might find something from my Nana's past.

She said she felt different from all the other girls in the convent as every few weeks/months she would be dressed up in some good clothes from a suitcase the nuns kept for her, and brought up to their parlour to sit with some very well-to-do people, who used to ask her how she was doing and get her to recite a poem or something she had learned recently. She doesn't know who they were. I think they could have been relatives, or maybe benefactors?

When she left the convent in her late teens, "someone" got her a job in the Shelbourne Hotel as a hostess-type person in the bar. She lived in the hotel and had all her meals free of charge. The money she earned from working was for herself. She told me fondly today of the red suit she bought in Brown Thomas and how she was wearing it the day she met my grandad!

She did well in school as far as she remembers, but not so well that she would miraculously land a job like that in the Shelbourne, all paid for...and she doesn't remember applying for anything like that.

When she was looking to marry my grandad, they went to the priest in Westland Row and told him that she didn't have her birth cert or any paperwork at all, just the name of the town in Roscommon where she had lived. A few weeks later, a priest from Ballaghadereen came all the way up to Dublin to give my granny's details to the Parish Priest of Westland Row. They refused to let her or my grandad see the documents but told her everything was sorted.

Later on life when she was looking to get a passport, she didn't know where to start. Her brother-in-law was working in the Department of Justice and did a bit of digging for her. He managed to get a date of birth for her but could not locate an actual cert for it. He said there was no record of her ANYWHERE until she turned up on the Confirmation records at the Convent ( at which stage she would have been about 11/12?). He said he thought that they might have switched her name around. I managed to get a copy of her marriage cert last year and her parents are simply listed as "John" and "Mary" ________ :rolleyes:

brianthebard wrote: »

pinkypinky is probably the best person to answer this question. I wonder would it be easier to trace the parish priest or people associated with her life, rather than her adoption? For instance, if the priest was moved from the diocese soon after her birth that might be a sign that the rumours were correct? the parish records should be easier to find than the adoption records? This would not be anywhere near guaranteed of course.

Well I'm hoping this classmate of hers might be a new lead to look up. My aunt went up to Roscommon years ago to try and get some information and she said the door was "literally slammed in [her] face". My other aunt says she remembers coming across a photo of a priest that had my nana's name written on the back, but now we don't know where it is and she doesn't want my Nana to know she had been snooping in her stuff.

Now that quite a few generations have passed, I'm hoping there might not be such tight "loyalty" to the parish, there might be more clerical staff than anything now, and perhaps they will be more willing to share information. But I did email them last year to no avail.

It's sooo difficult!

brianthebard

Sounds like a proper detective story. You seem to be going about it in the right way, but if parish records (for instance) are one of the main sources you need I can't imagine a priest is going to hand them over and potentially open up another scandal/discredit another priest. Sorry I'm not helping....*stops talking now*

Alicat

brianthebard wrote: »

Sounds like a proper detective story. You seem to be going about it in the right way, but if parish records (for instance) are one of the main sources you need I can't imagine a priest is going to hand them over and potentially open up another scandal/discredit another priest. Sorry I'm not helping....*stops talking now*

No it's ok! :pac:

The parish route is going to be very difficult but I'm gonna give it my best shot. Apparently my Nana wouldn't talk about it for years but she's really starting to open up about recently. I think she was afraid that she would find something bad? Or something she didn't want to know?

My mum knows a solicitor that's involved in a few cases regarding the recent scandals so she's going to see if they might be able to get their hands on some information....

My grandchildren will thank me for all this effort in the future :pac: Started doing the family tree last year and it's going really well except for this little blockage

Ostrom

Sorry to say, but that is fairly standard practice as far as orphan/adoption records go for the time in question. Baptism registers are quite difficult to read, but worth a try. I would begin by calling the adoption agency for the region, and ask about the records for the institution in question. You may get lucky with the parish records, but I doubt you will find any details of parents. Do you know how to go about searching parish records? Can post some direction if you wish, but pinkypinky appears to know best about these

If you are in Dublin you could try the national library, many records on microfiche.

I haven't used these records extensively earlier than 1950

pinkypinky

From what I know of adoption records, of which I have no personal experience, they are bad. If you do know the parish, then as Efla said parish records may be somewhere to start. However, the problem would be that if you aren't sure of her birth name, how would you know if you'd find the right child. I would try contacting somewhere like Adoption Ireland for advice. If you do find the right birth cert, it won't necessarily have the father on it at all but I have seen parish records where the priest has made notes along the lines of "father is X". The national library usually only has parish records up to about 1900 so you would need to approach the right church and ask to see the records. It's a terrible thing to point out, but in light of the Ryan Report, you might find a priest more willing to help, especially if he's not in the parish for 30 plus years.

Alicat

I don't know if adoption records are going to get me anywhere tbh. I think it was more that she was dumped there in the convent. As far as I know she was never under any impression that she was up for adoption. She grew up in the convent and then they sent her on to Dublin to live her life (all suspicious in my mind!). My aunts think it all has something to do with the photo of the priest they found though that apparently had the same last name as my Nana....if we knew where it was it might give us a new lead!

I know it's horrible about the Ryan Report but it did cross my mind that perhaps the parish priest might be more willing to help given what's been going on. As I said, my aunt tried years ago and they refused to even talk to her. Her brother in law did come up with a birthdate for her, but as he's dead years now I don't know how accurate it is. But I mean, she has a medical card and everything...so surely there's paperwork for her somewhere??

I googled the name of the girl who was my nana's best friend in the convent and she was indeed born the same year as my Nana, but that's all the information there was. I going to leave a few messages on some active genealogy websites and see if anyone might know any more of this girl/the convent/the town

Ostrom

You cant access the adoption records directly - formal records do not appear until after the passing of the childrens act, and even at that, access to the register of adopted persons is restricted to court-ordered release by the registrar general (in case of medical emergencies, and other such circumstances). Adoption records are very unreliable, due to the fragmentary nature of care institutions (mother and baby homes, magdalen asylums, orphanages) - from what we know the practice of name-changing appears to have been widespread. Records did not become centralized until the HSE incorporated the old adoption societies into regional departments.

The reason I raise adoption records, is that it is possible to request a search for (limited) information through the current HSE adoption societies; there may be a chance that something could have survived the various transitions of records. At the very least, I have found the people working in tracing and reunion very helpful (again, there have been some noted exceptions). I would suggest initiating contact and see what they have to say - at the very least they may be able to point you toward alternative sources.