What can they take?

LegacyUser

Like many people, I've had a bad year.

I found myself out of work, with no savings, and struggled up as far as Christmas to maintain repayments on a bank loan.

I wrote to the bank and told them I was having problems and asked to work out a longer payment plan for the 7 grand I had left to pay off. No dice.

MABS adviced me to switch banks and leave the repayment bahind me until I had a job again. So I did. Writing to my old bank on multiple occasions to make clear what was happening, detailing my current financial strife and showing them that I intended to maintain payments at a fraction of the previous weekly amount because - as I said in my letter(s) to them - I needed to keep enough of my dole for food and bills. My repayments were pretty much equal to my dole and I emptied my Credit Union to keep going while I looked for another job in this town. I even considered moving to a bigger town. And, all the while, I kept the bank in the loop with regard to my situation.

Each reply I got back was a threat. Sometimes veiled. But a threat nonetheless.

Anyway, now they have handed it over to a debt collectors and they have written to me, phoned once, and told me they are considering taking me to court and coming to 'sieze goods'.

Which brings me to my question...

I live in a rented house. I don't own the bed, the tv, the kettle we use to make tea with... Anything. It all belongs to the landlord. I don't own a car or anything like that. I have this computer (which is old) and a small portable TV that used to belong to my mum. I have books. And DVDs. And clothes. That's about it.

So if they show up tomorrow, can they take stuff that - legally - belongs to my landlord? One of my housemates has a laptop, which is always sitting on the kitchen table. Can they take that?

I'm asking because I haven't told this to my landlord or anyone - except one close friend. Do I need to warn these people that this could be about to happen? My landlord and I have a good relationship. I own him no money. If I didn't stop my repayments I would have had had problems paying my rent, but I opted to keep my home safe and ask the bank to wait their turn. I'm afraid that if I tell him all this, he might ask me to leave to keep his house/stuff safe.

Do I need to tell him that his household furniture is under threat? Do I need to warn my housemate to hide his laptop? If that would work. It is like you see in films? Is everything in the house fair game? If I say to them 'that isn't mine' will they go 'Yeah, yeah' and take it anyway?

Is that how it works? I honestly haven't a clue. I've never been in this situation. I've never known anyone who was. So I don't know much. I know that in films they show up and take everything they can find. But I always thought that that was only for huge loans for houses and stuff.

My housemate has a car. A car that might parked outside they house that they consider to be mine (since it is my postal address). Can they lay claim to it?

Logic tells me they can't.

My letters to the bank have told them that I don't own any of the stuff here. But they keep insisting, in reply to my letters, that they are considering coming here to 'sieze goods'.

What can they take?

Xiney

From this pdf, which appears to be published by a law firm specialising in debt collection:

Each county in Ireland has a Sheriff who is a civil servant and part of whose responsibility it is to seize, and sell, goods belonging to Debtors in discharge of debt. There can be long delays in this process, depending on the Sheriff's work demands, and often the Sheriff decides that the Debtor has no goods worth seizing and selling. The Sheriff will not seize tools of trade, or essential household items.

(emphasis theirs)

I don't think a Sheriff would bother attempting to sell your old computer, or your DVDs.


Also, from its paragraph on Installment Orders:

District Court Judges to not usually give Instalment Orders against unemployed Debtors.

To be perfectly honest, it sounds as though the debt collection agency is trying to scare you. You have put forth a reasonable repayment scheme and your bank have been nothing but antagonistic. I would suggest you return to MABS and see what your options are - this is a problem beyond the scope of this forum I fear.

I will leave the thread open though, in case there is additional help or support in the community here for you.

LegacyUser

Banks will seize goods as a last resource however you have nothing of any value to seize. They will first have to get a judgement against you ie. issue a demand letter, serve a Civil Bill(summons for Circuit Court Proceedings), and get Judgement against you. I would go back to MABS with the letter from the Solicitors and ask them for advice and ask them to liaise on your behalf with the Solicitors. If you are offering a repayment each week/month of they should be able to hold off with proceedings.

Please don't let the letterss from the Solicitors build up and do nothing.

If you are renting a double room could you maybe move to a single room somewhere and offer the bank the difference in rent?

LegacyUser

Also to mention, the banks will do their homework on the car outside the door. Obviously they will do a check with the Motor Taxation Office as to the owner of the vehicle and will discover it's not yours.

LouOB

Sorry to be nosey
But what did you need the money for?

Have you applied for any FAS courses?
as most of them have work and study programs

seamus

firsttimeindebt wrote: »

So if they show up tomorrow, can they take stuff that - legally - belongs to my landlord? One of my housemates has a laptop, which is always sitting on the kitchen table. Can they take that?

Unless you have been to court and had judgement against you, they cannot take anything. Whatsoever. Debt collection agencies are hired goons and nothing more. If a debt collection agency shows up tomorrow, you are not obliged to do anything - you don't even have to answer the door to them. If you do answer the door to them, you are not obliged to allow them in. If you do allow them in, they're not entitled to take anything.

DEBT COLLECTION AGENCIES HAVE NO POWER TO DO ANYTHING BUT ASK YOU FOR THE MONEY.

That's the simple fact of it. If they force their way in and take stuff, you can sue the agency (and the bank they're acting as agents for), for trespass, assault and theft.

As someone said above though, don't let the solicitors letter build up. A solicitors letter does not and cannot oblige you to do anything, but may contain information about upcoming court actions against you and so forth.

Again, if someone calls from a debt collection agency, simply tell them to contact their solicitor and close the door. Tell everyone living with you to do the same.

Take the name of the agency. If they threaten you in any way, even veiled, report it to the Gardai immediately.

Xiney

LouOB, that is really none of our business and the OP shouldn't have to answer that.

And seamus, that is excellent advice. Thank you.

partyguinness

As stated above, the only people who could possibly seize goods are the Sheriff (unless you have a Hire Purchase Agreement) and that is only after a lenghty process of obtaining Judgment via the Courts. Also, they cannot seize goods that do not belong to you.

At this stage, it would be better off negotiating a lesser amount through your own solicitor with the solicitors nominated by the bank...i.e. the ones that write to you. An arranagment can then be put in place.

LegacyUser

Hi OP

Just wondering if you would qualify for rent allowance, which would at least free up some money to pay your debts? Have you checked into this?

iguana

Have you spoken to the debt collection agency? If not call them and talk to them. You may find that they will negotiate with you more readily than the bank and allow you to make small payments on a regular basis until you are in a better position. The worst thing you can do is ignore the letter.

SarahSassy

firsttimeindebt wrote: »

MABS adviced me to switch banks and leave the repayment bahind me until I had a job again.

This doesnt make sense and is very irresponsible advice.

There has to be more to this. When did you last pay anything? Were you in arrears before you lost your job. Its not as simple as you are portraying.

mikewest

Have they got a judgement against you in court for the amount you owe ?
If not send them a registered letter outlining how much you are willing to pay detailing all previous correspondence and inform them that you are refusing to pay any additional charges they apply to the original capital and interest e.g. debt collection fees, late fees etc on the basis that they were made aware of your financial difficulties and were not willing to do anything about it. Demand a prompt response in this letter and even if they do not respond pay off the amount stated each week/month. If any debt collection agency ever calls you simply tell them you are dealing directly with the bank. If the bank decide to go to court (unlikely but not impossible) they could very well find themselves receiving less if you put a case to the judge that your circumstances have worsened since you made the offer by registered letter and the bank would probably not be able to recoup the court costs from you as you were already repaying the debt.

LegacyUser

Xiney wrote: »

From this pdf, which appears to be published by a law firm specialising in debt collection:

Thank you. I knew none of that stuff.

Unregistered wrote: »

Please don't let the letterss from the Solicitors build up and do nothing.

If you are renting a double room could you maybe move to a single room somewhere and offer the bank the difference in rent?

I won't. Thank you. Their first letter to me was dated June 3rd and they have received a comprehensive reply already.

I rent a single room. My rent is €45 per week (and I now get rent allowance). There isn't cheaper rent anywhere in this town.

seamus wrote: »

Unless you have been to court and had judgement against you, they cannot take anything.

No, nothing like this has happened yet.

Unregistered wrote: »

Just wondering if you would qualify for rent allowance, which would at least free up some money to pay your debts? Have you checked into this?

Yes, thanks. I went to MABS before Christmas and they were excellent at pointing me towards stuff like this.

iguana wrote: »

Have you spoken to the debt collection agency? If not call them and talk to them. You may find that they will negotiate with you more readily than the bank and allow you to make small payments on a regular basis until you are in a better position. The worst thing you can do is ignore the letter.

I'm not good on the phone. With anyone. Even friends. I text people and write emails. Last thing I want to do is get into a phone conversation over this. Face to face, I could handle a lot better, to be honest.

I wrote a long comprehensive reply to the one letter that I received on June 3rd. And I've written about ten letters to the bank about this since before Christmas. All of my letters were full of facts and figures and explained how much I could pay and indicated that I was willing to do this.

SarahSassy wrote: »

This doesnt make sense and is very irresponsible advice.

There has to be more to this. When did you last pay anything? Were you in arrears before you lost your job. Its not as simple as you are portraying.

It was the strangest advice. I agree. I really didn't see it coming. And it took me a few weeks to actually act on it.

The MABS reasoning was this: almost all my dole was being taken from me as soon as it appeared in the bank, so I was being left with almost no money to pay my bills and buy food. Once my savings ran out I would be unable to pay my rent, my ESB, my phone, etc. I had explained this to the bank and they were unwilling to budge. The MABS reasoning was this: there would come a Friday where I had 100 in the bank and 100 in bills and no money for food. I would literally have no money for food. But if I removed my huge bank loan repayments from the equation I would be able to pay all my bills and still have money for, you know, food.

Even now the friend that knows all of this doesn't quite understand the MABS advice, but I'm come to see the wisdom in it. For a while there I had a few hundred in the credit union to live off, but it was soon approaching a very scary time. When you go to the bank machine on a Friday morning and there is €55 in your account and you have make it last 7 days and pay a bill which is larger than that 55, it is scary.

The MABS advice, crazy though it sounded at the time, stopped me from getting into that situation. I have enough dole to pay the bills.

And I have a job interview on Tuesday morning. So, who knows... (It's my first since February.)

I kept up repayments long after I lost my job. I first went to MABS about this months before it became urgent and - according my bank statement here beside me - my last repayment to the bank was on the 13th of March.

Up until that date I was fully up to date with my payments. On 20th of March when they went to take money out of my account there was none there and that was the first time that I ever went into arrears on anything. Ever. This was my first loan. Ever.

I first wrote to the bank in December and - more than once before March 20th - I explained to them what was about to happen and - using a small spreadsheet - I put forward an alternative payment scheme.

Each of their replies was of the "if you do not maintain payments it will affect your credit rating and we will be forced to take action" etc. Or something like that. The letters are in a folder and I can't be bothered to drag them out and include direct quotes or anything like that. Bottom line: they had no interest in my situation or my attempts to maintain repayments at a lower rate.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'it's not as simple'. I did cut out everything that was irrevant to my question, yes. My one question was: Can they take stuff from this house that does not belong to me? So I filled you in on all the relevant data and left out what I thought was probably not needed. Mostly trying to show readers that I haven't done anything to piss the bank or the solicitors off, I wrote to them months in advance, I replied to all of their letters to me and I followed MABS advice to switch banks and transfer my dole/rent allowance in there instead so that my old bank couldn't take it from me.

Thanks to MABS, I'm 100% fine with the ESB, the phone, my landlord and I have enough money for food. I'm fed up, so I have no interest in going out or anything like that. I'm fine. Myself and my friend went to the cinema on Sunday afternoon. It's fine.

I owe nobody nothing. Except the bank, of course. And, again, thanks to MABS I've enough money coming in to pay my bills until I get a job again.

The situation with the bank is awful and terrible. But it would be worse for me if I was getting threatening letters about cutting off my ESB or phone, or my landlord was phoning me to see where the rent was.

I'm happy with the MABS advice to be honest. Grateful that I had someplace to go, and someone to talk to. I had never heard of them, and I think they are great.

mikewest wrote: »

Have they got a judgement against you in court for the amount you owe ?
If not send them a registered letter

No, not yet. The idea of a registered letter is a good one. None of the letters I have sent the bank over the past seven months was registered.

Thank you.