Another bidding question + is it a good area?

The_Chopper

We're looking around a while now and wondering peoples opinion on this property, what they'd bid on it and what is this estate like?

All comments appreciated

http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?search=1&s[cc_id]=ct1&s[a_id][0]=pc6&s[a_id][1]=pc9&s[a_id][2]=pc11&s[a_id][3]=pc13&s[a_id][4]=pc15&s[a_id][5]=pc17&s[a_id][6]=pc19&s[a_id][7]=pc20&s[mnb]=3&s[mxb]=3&s[mnp]=300000&s[mxp]=500000&s[advanced]=1&s[search_type]=sale&s[furn]=&s[bd_no]=3&s[refreshmap]=1&offset=80&limit=10&search_type=sale&id=440662

Also here
http://www.myhome.ie/residential/search/brochure/19-glenbourne-walk-leopardstown-dublin-co&-city/HWPRA394210

spockety

It's €387 per square foot.

I personally think that's ludicrous.

Apart from the price, the house itself looks quite nice.

The_Chopper

spockety wrote: »

It's €387 per square foot.

I personally think that's ludicrous.

Apart from the price, the house itself looks quite nice.

What would be an acceptable price per square foot in the area + is the area itself a good one?

BlackWizard

After less than a month this property dropped its price by 35,000 euro.

It's only been on the market for just over two months. I hope you are not bidding anywhere near the 475k mark.

For nearly half a million euro for a 3 bedhouse I would expect to be in a VERY nice estate with easy walking access to shop, schools and public transport. That's just my opinion though!

ntlbell

can you use the short codes on daft, them url's are pretty vulgar.

The_Chopper

ntlbell wrote: »

can you use the short codes on daft, them url's are pretty vulgar.

Sorry

http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?search=1&s[cc_id]=ct1&s[a_id][0]=pc6&s[a_id][1]=pc9&s[a_id][2]=pc11&s[a_id][3]=pc13&s[a_id][4]=pc15&s[a_id][5]=pc17&s[a_id][6]=pc19&s[a_id][7]=pc20&s[mnb]=3&s[mxb]=3&s[mnp]=300000&s[mxp]=500000&s[advanced]=1&s[search_type]=sale&s[furn]=&s[bd_no]=3&s[refreshmap]=1&offset=80&limit=10&search_type=sale&id=440662

athtrasna

Those houses are nice, a friend lives there. Parking can be an issue depending on where the house is positioned. Also re schools, it's on the border of two school catchment areas, friend has found they can't get guarantees of a place from either for their son.

The_Conductor

I've a friend who lives in the area. It is a nice enough area- but there aren't a lot of local facilities/amenities (my friend actually goes to Stillorgan for virtually everything). The ad for the house looks nice enough- my impression is that its an ok house (a bit on the small side), in an ok area. Its not a remarkable area, and it most certainly isn't a remarkable house. Someone has put a nice kitchen and bathroom in- expecting this will be sufficient to try to and entice a buyer into paying top dollar for the house. Don't. Similar houses in the area were around about 170k in 1996-1997 (before the boom got underway). I am not suggesting they will fall to this level- but I don't think prices in the region of 300k would be out of the question.

Ps- the sales pitch in the Ad- reminded me of desperation and Harvey Norman adds- in equal measure.......

I'd take my time and research this one- a lot, before I got carried away on it.......

The_Chopper

Cheers for the responses guys - here some more of my thoughts

Regarding amenities
Within a 5 minute walk there is the following:
Spar + other shops
Leopardstown shopping center including a dunnes stores
2 parks
A primary School
and soon to be luas.

Dundrum is an 8 minute drive. The location suits us as we both work around the Clonskeagh/Miltown area.

Regarding monies
I am getting married within the next year also and we are planning on buying a house before that, under one of our names, so we don't lose 2 first time buyer allowance which can be substantial when we are planning on buying another house down the country in the next few years.
Interest rates also went up for the first time in quite some time last week and based on our agreed mortgage + increase in interest that's already cost us 105 a month. If they go up again before we agree a fixed rate we could lose out on more.
Finally we are sick of renting at the moment we are paying a substantial amount which works out higher than the proposed mortgage. So that is potentially another saving?

We probably won't buy the house above based on peoples feedback, but I think there is a lot to say about the area. The reasons regarding monies is why we are considering buying now and not waiting.

Also this house has come to my attention and wondering if they would have the same concerns http://www.daft.ie/1418065

Thanks

The_Conductor

To be honest- it sounds pretty much as though you have your mind made up- and you were hoping to get affirmation of your decision here? Perhaps I'm reading too much into things?

House prices are falling- albeit perhaps not at an accelerating rate as they have been heretofor- but they are continuing to fall. Will the saving you make on renting now along with lower interest rates (if you can lock yourself into a lower rate- they are not as readily available as the advertisements would have you believe- but you're looking at 4.6% + for a 10 year rate), offset the fall in the value of the asset?

To be honest- if you intend to sell the property and move somewhere else in medium term- as is your stated aim- I think its crazy to consider buying- you have few of the hassles of ownership if you continue to rent.

Vis-a-vis First Time Buyer status- if you marry and one of the parties owns property (anywhere in the world)- the only way the other party can exercise their preferential rights as a FTB- is if the property is not the PPR for the couple, and the other member of the couple does not assist in the purchase in any way. You can try and bend the rules to your hearts content- but the likelyhood is you will get hit for the higher stamp duty on the future purchase come what may. When you get married- while there is individualisation of the tax regime- couples and their assets are viewed as joint holders in any assets, by the Revenue Commissioners (with a few notable exceptions- and even those are being closed for tax purposes).

ECB rates have not increased- the fixed term rates being charged to Irish financial institutions by international institutions has risen markedly in the past 2-3 months- in line with the downgrading of Irish sovereign debt. Mortgage funds are not borrowed at the overnight rate- they are borrowed on future rates- the 10 year rate of which is now at around 3.65% (resulting in a 10 year fixed mortgage rate of about 4.55-4.65%)

Rates are going to continue to rise. Normalisation of rates would imply a 3-3.5% increase on their current levels- probably over a 5-6 year period (certainly not in the next 1-2 years).

Factor another 3% into your mortgage quotation- and is it still more expensive to rent than it is to buy? Sure- you will now have to pay EUR105 more a month than you would have done had you drawn down a mortgage 2 weeks ago- where are you going to be when the fixed period expires though- or if you are selling the property- prior to the expiration of the fixed term- what is the breakout cost going to be for you- and what will a new mortgage likely cost a future purchaser?

Further- what will a more than doubling in rates over a 5-6 year period do to an already very bad Irish property market? Its a reasonable expectation that there will be a dead cat bounce in the Irish market within 18-24 months- before a fresh tumble to even lower lows........

Why do you feel its necessary to buy now- rather than waiting- given all the uncertainties?

If you are certain that you intend to buy down the country in the medium term- I really cannot see the merit in sinking a significant amount of money into this property.

MG

The_Chopper wrote: »

What would be an acceptable price per square foot in the area + is the area itself a good one?

My opinion is that an average house should cost in the region of 1500-1800 per sq metre. After that, you'll have to decide what factors should influence it to be above or below the average (location, facilities etc).

Over 3000 per sq m would be very high end, maybe top 10%-20% of houses nationwide.

Average Irish house price peaked at approx 3000 per sq m, and are currently (per PTSB/ERSI) at about 2400 per sq m. In my opinon this is still 50% too high.

Edit: I should have said 50% above their natural level i.e. need to fall by approx a third

jdivision

The sales agent is the one featured in Prime Time if memory serves. Worth bearing in mind

BlackWizard

This was in the Independent this morning.

MEANWHILE the residents of Foxrock, south Dublin, are likely to be shook up next week as a four-bedroom home on Brighton Avenue goes on the market at €850,000 with Lisneys. The last home Lisney sold on the road was a similar sized house for €1.75m while another house just up the road is on the market for €1.25m. The owners have already moved out so this is likely to be sold whatever the feelings of the neighbours.

Seems like a huge price drop for this area. So I'd take this into consideration, the fact that in general houses are dropping in price and finally as was already said by smccarrick 300k is a realistic bid. I'd love to suggest lower the bid but mentioning a "2" at the start of the bid might be insulting to them (bid 290k )

kingofthecastle

your going to be paying close to half a million euro for a standard house. technically it has a leopardstown address but ballyogan is next door and its pretty rough to say the least.

bangersandmash

BlackWizard wrote: »

This was in the Independent this morning.
Seems like a huge price drop for this area. So I'd take this into consideration, the fact that in general houses are dropping in price and finally as was already said by smccarrick 300k is a realistic bid. I'd love to suggest lower the bid but mentioning a "2" at the start of the bid might be insulting to them (bid 290k )

Interesting. But while the properties may look close, there's a world of difference between the two sides of the M50. Brighton Road and Ballyogan Road are two very different places.

As an aside I remember an acquaintance buying in the first phase of the The Gallops development in the 1990s. She was priced out of buying in Finglas, so she bought in Leopardstown/Ballyogan as the "next best" option. Her family thought she was crazy. What was really crazy was that properties here were later changing hands for €1m+, even taking into account the M50 and future Luas connection. In general it seems that areas which saw the most rapid appreciation are now seeing the largest falls.

The_Conductor

My friend was in the same boat- priced out of buying in Crumlin- bought near the Gallops too.

Crumlin and indeed Finglas never had the price rises associated with this area- and are still falling significantly. The Luas factor is constantly being held up as a gold plated reason to buy here- but by God the price premium has been overdone several fold. At least in Crumlin or Finglas you have established communities with facilities and amenities- and you did not have massive developments to swamp those facilities and amenities of the surrounding areas (with a few notable exceptions). Its all well and good holding up the nearby schools as examples of planning- they are not. My friend has to drive her daughter to Clonskeagh every morning- she wasn't able to get a local place for her dearest, no matter how hard she tried.

I was being genuine when I suggested a ~300k tag for a property of this stature in this area. Its an ok house in an ok area. Nothing special. At the end of the day- and in a few years time when the dust finally settles- I genuinely think 300k would be a reasonable support level for a smallish 3 bed semi-d in the area- and thats after factoring the Luas etc into the equation.

S.