Agricultural Science: Teaching myself in 6th year?

jc2008

Hi everyone. I'm sorry if this appears as an over-confident or arrogant thread, it was not intended that way.

From what I heard (and it's only what I heard, I'm not saying it's true for everyone), Agricultural Science is an easy enough subject (in comparison to other subjects anyway).

Is it possible to teach yourself this subject in just one year? My school does not offer it and as far as I know, there are no classes around me that teach agricultural science.

Also, without insulting the subject or anything to do with it, is it fair to say that subject is just learning off? Does it require understanding (I don't mean not understanding what you learn, I mean needing to know exactly what you are doing, like in Maths)? I ask this because I will not have a teacher, just a textbook, to explain tips and techniques to me.

Background about me: Just finished 5th year, studing these subjects (in order of preference) - Applied Maths, Maths, Physics, Geography, Accounting, English, French, Irish. I am a hard-working student and I usually achieve all A's (except for French and Irish, I'm hopeless at languages).

Summary of post (the questions that I would like answered )
1.) Is it possible to teach oneself Ag. Science in one year and has anyone done it before (I'm aiming for an A1 or A2 hopefully)
2.) Is the subject basically learning off and memorising?
3.) Will the school allow me to do it? (I will be the only one doing it, so I'm not sure if they will open an exam centre just for me).
4.) What is the best textbook for this?
5.) Are there any pre-submitted exercises, or is your grade based fully on the exam in June? (What I mean by pre-submitted exercises is like the field study in Geography etc.)
6.) Will not doing Biology put me at a big disadvantage for this subject?

Thank for taking time in reading this. I hope I made myself clear and I hope I am not asking a stupid question.

Saffy

well, I did ag. science in school for 2 years and it was my worst subject!
I found it difficult but maybe most people don't...

errlloyd

Its got the lowest a1 rate of any of the sciences.

Now I really open myself to flame here but, its possible this is in part due to the people who take it not aiming for very high points, compared with maybe chemistry in general.

(Ok please, I took a reasonable comparison, I said maybe / possible and in general... Please, I am just trying to help)

pathway33

1. yes and yes (not me)
2. yes
3. they cannot stop you doing it outside school. Lots of people take up subjects not offered in school e.g applied maths and the school accomodates them on exam day
4. Don't know (that's not the name of the book btw)
5. There is a project where you visit a farm and do a write-up worth 20% (i think that's the %)
6. No. There is much less of an overlap now with biology which is why universities now accept points from both biology and ag science whereas in the past it was one or the other.

pathway33

errlloyd wrote: »

Its got the lowest a1 rate of any of the sciences.

Now I really open myself to flame here but, its possible this is in part due to the people who take it not aiming for very high points, compared with maybe chemistry in general.

(Ok please, I took a reasonable comparison, I said maybe / possible and in general... Please, I am just trying to help)

I would say you are spot on.

Saffy

pathway33 wrote: »

1. yes and yes (not me)
2. yes
3. they cannot stop you doing it outside school. Lots of people take up subjects not offered in school e.g applied maths and the school accomodates them on exam day
4. Don't know (that's not the name of the book btw)
5. There is a project where you visit a farm and do a write-up worth 20% (i think that's the %)
6. No. There is much less of an overlap now with biology which is why universities now accept points from both biology and ag science whereas in the past it was one or the other.

25%

pathway33

Saffy wrote: »

25%

wow that's an E in the bag before you sit down in june

Saffy

pathway33 wrote: »

wow that's an E in the bag before you sit down in june

not everyone gets the full 25% lol.

Fad

pathway33 wrote: »

6. No. There is much less of an overlap now with biology which is why universities now accept points from both biology and ag science whereas in the past it was one or the other.

Except TCD for a few courses.

jc2008

Thank you for all the replies.

I didn't realise it had the lowest A1 rate of all the sciences, I just presumed it was easy for everything (not just for passing) - how ignorant of me

If there is 25% going for a visit to a farm, that would be very hard to conduct on my own. Where would I get the write-up-booklet and how would I know what to write in it?

errlloyd

you download the write up booklet off examinations I think.

Hmm 35% of students get an A on the coursework, a further 43 get a b. So its good for 25% in the bag really. (2005 statistics)

Your best bet, past papers and marking schemes for making a choice really.

Spanglished

I did ag science LC 2007, I did it outside of school and took it up in 6th year. Did it all myself, with the help of a relative who has an Ag degree.
The only part you might find difficult is the practical, which is a project or a farm diary. You may need to find another school which teachs ag science as there is an "oral practical" of sorts, where you are asked about your project and to identify different grasses, weeds etc.
I also did Chemistry and Biology for Leaving Cert which helped an awful lot. It also really helps if you come from a farming background, simply to be able to go out and see the topics in question first hand, really helps in understanding and learning!

pathway33

jc2008 wrote: »

Thank you for all the replies.

I didn't realise it had the lowest A1 rate of all the sciences, I just presumed it was easy for everything (not just for passing) - how ignorant of me

If there is 25% going for a visit to a farm, that would be very hard to conduct on my own. Where would I get the write-up-booklet and how would I know what to write in it?

get the farmers journal and go on a public farm tour that are advertised and be very nice to the farmer?

put an ad in the farmers journal?

go to the farming section on boards and ask a farmer?

if you seek out the chief examiners report on www.examinations.ie there may be some guidelines on the project or maybe even in the marking scheme although that may only be the exam

pathway33

Fad wrote: »

Except TCD for a few courses.

errlloyd

http://www.examinations.ie/archive/examiners_reports/cer_2005/LCAgriculturalScience.pdf

Page 30 of the report.

straight_As

Holy crap!

I was just thinking the exact same thing as the OP. Then I realised that I'm already doing three (well four if we're including AM, but that's for another day) sciences, and another may be a bit, well, too much.

I don't want to start another thread, chaps and chapettes, for I'm in basically the same situation as the OP.

I'd like to take up another subject in 6th year, for funsies, of course :P, and preferably one in which an A1 is achievable if the topic is studied autonomously.

All my friends say economics. They all seem to think it's a short enough course and very topical.

How long is the course actually? I'm nigh on certain that my friends are somewhat deluded in their claims that it's "reeeeeeally short".

Is it a very difficult subject to take on in a year?

I can honestly say that economics would have taken French's place had French not been a matriculation requirement for NUI universities.

So basically guys and gals, my question is, is it doable? Economics in a year with a good chance of an A?

Thanks,

-L

rainbowtrout

jc2008 wrote: »

Summary of post (the questions that I would like answered )
1.) Is it possible to teach oneself Ag. Science in one year and has anyone done it before (I'm aiming for an A1 or A2 hopefully)
2.) Is the subject basically learning off and memorising?
3.) Will the school allow me to do it? (I will be the only one doing it, so I'm not sure if they will open an exam centre just for me).
4.) What is the best textbook for this?
5.) Are there any pre-submitted exercises, or is your grade based fully on the exam in June? (What I mean by pre-submitted exercises is like the field study in Geography etc.)
6.) Will not doing Biology put me at a big disadvantage for this subject?

Thank for taking time in reading this. I hope I made myself clear and I hope I am not asking a stupid question.

I teach ag science, so this might clear up some of your questions:

1. It is possible to teach yourself Ag but you could probably do with some guidance in the form of a teacher. It's easy to misinterpret questions on the exam paper.

2. No, it's a science, and like all sciences you do need to understand what you're doing.

3. You can register for any subject for the LC. It doesn't matter if you're the only one doing a subject, the exam centre will be open for you.

4. Probably Agricultural Science by Breen and Mullen (Folens). There are only 2 ag books available and this is the better of the two. Also Rapid Revision Ag Science by Elaine Buckley Murphy is good. You could nearly do most of the course from the RR book.

5. Here is where the wheels are going to come off your cart. There is a 25% project based on practical experiments you do in school and a project based on crops and livestock. You must do this under the supervision of a teacher as it is the teacher who grades your project. It's worth 25%. In May of LC, an external examiner comes to the school and a selection of students from the ag class have an oral interview to assess their grades to make sure the grades are fair. If you are the only one in your school doing ag you can guarantee you will be interviewed. So if you intend on doing Ag you will need to find an ag teacher who is willing to take you on (possibly in another school). You can't just turn up with a project. Nobody will sign off on it and grade it for you. Project is normally completed by 31st March of LC year.


6. There is an overlap with Biology and while I would say those that do Biology have an advantage in that they are doubling up on some areas of the course, you are not at a disadvantage in not doing Biology. Most of my students do not do both subjects for LC. I would suggest that the Biology on the course is roughly equivalent to a lot of the plant and animal biology material on the JC Science course (photosynthesis, digestion, heart, lungs etc) and perhaps some is similar to ordinary level LC Biology.


Just one question for you: do you really need a ninth subject for LC????

rainbowtrout

jc2008 wrote: »

Thank you for all the replies.

I didn't realise it had the lowest A1 rate of all the sciences, I just presumed it was easy for everything (not just for passing) - how ignorant of me

If there is 25% going for a visit to a farm, that would be very hard to conduct on my own. Where would I get the write-up-booklet and how would I know what to write in it?

There is no write up booklet. It doesn't exist, you write up the project yourself. It's based on your own practical experience of crops and livestock. So if you have a farm yourself or can visit a neighbour's farm/relations farm etc etc you can write about that. The easiest way to do it otherwise is to go to one of Agricultural College's Open Days where you get a guided tour of the college and farm. You don't say where you are so I can't tell you where to go. But you'll already know if you read my other post where your main problem lies and it's not the farm visit.

If you're Dublin based Ballyhaise College, Co. Cavan is possibly your closest. Bailey's Sheep Farm in Meath (can't remember where exactly) often do tours. If you're in the west Mountbellew Agricultural College, Co. Galway,

East, Kildalton Ag College, Co. Kilkenny

and South/Midwest, Pallaskenry Ag College, Co. Limerick
Gurteen Ag College, Co. Tipperary
Clonakilty Ag College, Co. Cork.



This is where you would need a teacher for guidance on the subject.

CaoimH_in

I got 25% in my Project apparently, teacher says anyway, but, its not that much work, fully advise taking e-mail addys from people, as I would say its a grand subject but very tricky to do alone, tbh, I would advise a different subject like Art, which has a very very easy set up breaks down to

37.5% art history
25% Imaginative composition
25% Poster(or whatever)
remaining is a still life drawing.

Why i wouldn't advise you do it, is, you have to make a home garden and usually you do that in the spring/summer of 5th year, as the spring/summer of 6th year would be far too late Can't really advise it, I did art as an 8th subject since the mocks and worked quite hard at it and im in line for a B soo... not sure tbh wouldn't advise, why not do Physics? you seem to be very maths based, unless your already doing it

Secoundrow

rainbowtrout

Just one question for you: do you really need a ninth subject for LC????

I did ag this year as a ninth subject and to be honest found really easy (but I do do biology which really helped)

to be honest I dont think its possibly to learn yourself
unless your doing Geography and Biology (both of them but biology is more important) I say this because trying to sort out genetics/photosynthsis/respiration on your own will wreck your head

GET GRINDS

Thats how I did it this year they dont do ag in our school so a class of 30
of us started in september in a community center doing 2 hrs a week

seriously I dont think it possible to do it by yourself but with some
instruction its easy the project is also very easy and as rainbowtrout said above you need a teacher for the project (ah hem grinds)


I think I got a A1 (but our paper in ag science yesterdy was very very fair to be honest:D

So the boys nd girls next year are in for a bad one:D

eddiej

Hi there,

Just to back up a lot of what Rainbow said, you need a teacher to sign off on the project and also the lab work. There are no set experiments though you must cover experiements in 5 certain areas soils, genetics etc.

I have taught Ag Sci for a number of years as an extra subject and after the first few years I stopped taking students who were doing the course in one year for the points. Any course needs a lot of work and I have found that students were just not able to do project lab work and entire course in one year especially when they were taking it as an additional subject. To be honest why not concentrate on the subjects you are doing and do the best you can in those.

I sometimes have to wonder why people think Ag Sci is so easy as none of my students have ever achieved full marks in the practical element and I have marked them. To give somebody 100% they would have to know everything and be better than the teacher. To be fair this may happen someday but if it does I should stop teaching and let the student take over.

I would stick with the subjects you already have and if you really want to do Ag Sci get a teacher as one poster said grinds at least. If you are in Dublin I think there are a good few offering if you look on the grinds link and I think the Institute do courses. Best of luck either way but get a teacher

cocomk1

tbh ag is a pretty hard subject...if you were to do it yourself you would need grinds - thats just my opinion...but if you put the work in its quite possibe to get a c or a low b

Tevez101

I took it up this year on my own...
It's no problem at all if you have the determenation to learn stuff off.
To be honest, you dont have to understand the information all that well, you just need to know it.
Saying that, it is required to have a basic understanding as they do tend to phrase the questions in various ways but nothing too difficult.
Just use the rapid revision book too..it may not cover everything but it definetely has enough information to achieve an A1..
Remember, on the Ag paper you have a fantastic choice..do 6 out of 10 questions. And to be honest, everybody does Q1, its woth the most marks(60) and is just general short questions from the course, and again there is a brilliant internal choice within this question, answer 6 out of 10.
Furthermore whilst there is no definitive list of experiments, if your able to do all the experiments that have come up in the last 10 years you'll be sorted,trust me.The experiments question is question 4 and is again,a given to do and its worth 48 marks., just like the rest of the questions on the paper apart from question 1 of course.
So now your choice is basically 4 from 8 which is again, quite phenomenal.

As for any disadvantage by not doing biology, there is none, not anymore anyway as the department have decreased the amount of biology contenet on the paper dramatically in recent years, especially this years paper there was hardly any advantages a biology student would have gained...

Trust me, do ag science...if you have the determenation you'll get your A1, no doubt.

severussnape

Heylo!

I'm considering taking up Ag. Science in 6th year as a 9th subject. I know the stats and apparently it's the easiest A1 out there. Any advice? Is the course long? I already do 8 HL subjects and I want to do Medicine but I'm not 100% sure I'm willing to put in the work HL maths requires for an A1/2 so I'm contemplating dropping to pass in that ( although it would kill me to do so ). Personally, I just don't feel safe having 7 HL subjects because, knowing me, I'm bound to mess up at least one on the day...and also, English is just soo goddamn subjective :mad:. I'm doing chem and bio, and I hugely regret not doing Physics but I know there's a load of work required and I doubt I'd get it done in one year with all my other subjects. But, I think having Ag Sci as a third Science would be pretty handy and I've heard the three intertwine? If anyone could recommend a good Ag. Science book too I'd really appreciate it because the school aren't being as co-operative as hoped regarding my decision to take up yet another subject, so it looks like it shall be me on my ownio, analysing the gestation period of a cow...niiice..

Any advice would be much appreciated!!:D

pathway33

severussnape wrote: »

Heylo!

I'm considering taking up Ag. Science .....I want to do Medicine ..... maths ..... dropping to pass ..... I'm doing chem and bio, and I hugely regret not doing Physics

for trinity college - biology may not be presented with agricultural science as the two higher level subjects required for Dental science, Medicine, Medicinal chemistry, Physiotherapy or Science

also for trinity - if you don't have physics you need an OC3 / HD3 in maths....should be a breeze to you but don't forget about it

to make up for the ag science you can do the matric exam in trinity in April in 1. Geology 2. Biblical studies and these count as the same points as higher leaving subjects.

I think you can add ag science and biology for medicine for the other colleges but not sure

rainbowtrout

severussnape wrote: »

Heylo!

I'm considering taking up Ag. Science in 6th year as a 9th subject. I know the stats and apparently it's the easiest A1 out there. Any advice? Is the course long? I already do 8 HL subjects and I want to do Medicine but I'm not 100% sure I'm willing to put in the work HL maths requires for an A1/2 so I'm contemplating dropping to pass in that ( although it would kill me to do so ). Personally, I just don't feel safe having 7 HL subjects because, knowing me, I'm bound to mess up at least one on the day...and also, English is just soo goddamn subjective :mad:. I'm doing chem and bio, and I hugely regret not doing Physics but I know there's a load of work required and I doubt I'd get it done in one year with all my other subjects. But, I think having Ag Sci as a third Science would be pretty handy and I've heard the three intertwine? If anyone could recommend a good Ag. Science book too I'd really appreciate it because the school aren't being as co-operative as hoped regarding my decision to take up yet another subject, so it looks like it shall be me on my ownio, analysing the gestation period of a cow...niiice..

Any advice would be much appreciated!!:D

see post 17

Seinas

the project simply isnt about a farm visit... I came loads of people help on it through the allhonours website id copy and paste but for some reason the website isnt working.. I got an A1 in my project work, i remember i had over 400 pages but thats not neccessary. I do ag.science now at third level and i help alot of students i know around the place on their projects and give them grinds..

If you work really really hard then you will do well in it but the project does take alot of time..

When you visit the farm, you need to write about all its details such as livestock, machinery, buildings, land improvements and include farm maps etc etc.

You need an in depth investigation into the production of an animal e.g dairy cattle, beef cattle, sheep, pigs etc

Then there is the experiment part, you need sections on Genetics, Soil Science, Ecology, Plant Science and Microbiology

2 in depth investigations into crops. A root crop or grass crop and a cereal crop so two of the following; barley, wheat, potatoes, rape, grass etc etc

I think thats everything anyway...

Get the farmers journal every week it will be a huge help, especially as they have a revision section each week and you can get the sections from the past two years on the agriaware website

Jen1985

I was thinking of taking up ag science for the LC in 2010 too. im repeating my leaving cert as a mature student but wanted to do ag science but the college im repeating in doesnt offer it as a subject so ive no idea how to do it without having a teacher to correct my work. i doubt any other school would agree to correct my project if im not a student there. anyone know where i can go to find a teacher that would be willing to correct it? im in the dublin area and the institute of education do not offer the subject in one year, only in two years. any advice? pm me if you can. Thanks

spurious

Ask in your college. There may well be a teacher qualified to sign off on your project but just not teaching the subject due to a lack of demand.
If it's a VEC college, they may know someone teaching in another college in their system. If it's a CBS school, they may know someone in another nearby CBS school.
You won't be the first person to have found themselves in that situation.

coughlan08

hi,
am doing my ag science project for next year,
and am wondering does anybody know the full list of experiments
that i need for the project and were i can get a hold of them so i can write them up
thanks in advance
coughlan

rainbowtrout

coughlan08 wrote: »

hi,
am doing my ag science project for next year,
and am wondering does anybody know the full list of experiments
that i need for the project and were i can get a hold of them so i can write them up
thanks in advance
coughlan

There is no set list of experiments. However you do have to have at least one (recommended to have more than one) in each of the following sections:

Soil
Genetics
Microbiology
Plant Physiology
Animal Physiology
Ecology

Get the Rapid Revision Ag Science book. All of the experiments you could possibly need to know are in the back of it. Go through it and divide them up into the 6 categories above and that should get you started.