Self certified insulation

Jimbo

Im doing a BER on an old house that was drylined a few years back.

Although there is no real evidence of the work being done (visually or recepits), a colleague in my office supervised the work at the time and is willing to certify that it was carried out.

Would that be suffficient evidence for the SEI considering it is coming from the same office that is carring out the BER?

recedite

Even if you had done it yourself you would still need the evidence.

sydthebeat

recedite wrote: »

Even if you had done it yourself you would still need the evidence.

certified documentation from an 'overseeing' professional can be considered evidence...

Jimbo

sydthebeat wrote: »

certified documentation from an 'overseeing' professional can be considered evidence...

That's my point.

If the overseeing professional is the BER assessor and they are willing to certify works were done, no other proof is needed is there?

recedite

OK I see your point; the "signing off "is the evidence.The only thing is you might fall foul of the Code of Practice - section (d) below unless you are employed by a public body;

Independence

BER Assessors are required to act in an independent manner at all times when discharging their obligations under the Regulations.

BER Assessors are prohibited from carrying out a BER Assessment on a building–
(a) which is owned by them, or
(b) which is owned by any Connected Person, or
(c) which is to be sold or let by him or her or a Connected Person in their capacity as a sales or letting intermediary, or
(d) in any other circumstances in which they have a material financial interest in the outcome of

any assessment other than the fee charged for providing the rating.
Its worth checking with SEI

recedite

Does that preclude architects from issuing BER Certs for their own new-build designs then? I'm getting myself confused now.

Jimbo

Just because I supervised the construction of a building does not mean I have any financial interest in the outcome of the result of a BER assesment.
If I did, I shouldn't be signing off on it's construction anyway.

muffler

Jimbo wrote: »

Although there is no real evidence of the work being done (visually or recepits), a colleague in my office supervised the work at the time and is willing to certify that it was carried out.

Would this not be a conflict of interest given that it was a work colleague (same firm I take it) as opposed to someone independent.

Pkiernan

The best thing you could do in this instance is to inquire directly with SEI, and wait their email response to you.

My opinion is that a letter certifying the work, may not be enough, as it may not satify the need to verify the type of insulation involved, and therefore it's U-Value.

Regardless of the advice you receive on this forum, it is the SEI who may audit you; if it were me, I would seek SEI clarification before changing from the default wall U Values (as bitter a pill as this may be for the dwelling owner to swallow).

Pkiernan

Alternatively, have you tried removing a wall vent?

You should be able to do this very simply, and then photograph the dryling.

I did this in my BER Training Course.

Jimbo

muffler wrote: »

Would this not be a conflict of interest given that it was a work colleague (same firm I take it) as opposed to someone independent.

I'm not sure that it is. I'm an independant assessor - as in I have no financial gain make from the result of the assesment. So, if my survey details can be taken as independant, why can't my firms observations of work done previously be treated the same? if I or a colleague (same firm) is prepared to sign off on it?

Pkiernan wrote: »

The best thing you could do in this instance is to inquire directly with SEI, and wait their email response to you.

My opinion is that a letter certifying the work, may not be enough, as it may not satify the need to verify the type of insulation involved, and therefore it's U-Value.

Regardless of the advice you receive on this forum, it is the SEI who may audit you; if it were me, I would seek SEI clarification before changing from the default wall U Values (as bitter a pill as this may be for the dwelling owner to swallow).

I know - I have emailed SEI, but they're slow to respond as usual.
And as usual, the cert needs to be done by las week.
I just don't want to use the defaults if possible because the house in question has electric heating and so is in G rating territory.

Pkiernan wrote: »

Alternatively, have you tried removing a wall vent?

You should be able to do this very simply, and then photograph the dryling.

I did this in my BER Training Course.

That's a good way of checking alright - I might have to go back

Pkiernan

If it is no possible to take off the wall vent cover, or if there is not one present, you might also try removing the cover plate on a plug socket in the wall.

If the wall is fully drylined, you should be able to see it this way.
You could also look for signs that the rads have been shifted forward, rhe windows sills, skirting board etc.

recedite

If your firm only supervised construction they would have no financial interest in the outcome of the BER.
On the other hand if your firm specified materials or the design itself they might have.
For example, what if a client said "design me an A-Rated house" or "I want my existing poorly insulated house brought up to the current building regulation standards". If the BER then fell short of the mark, I imagine there would be some serious financial implications for the firm.There would be a temptation to modify the data input to DEAP in order to get out of a tricky situation.
I'm sure you and your firm are honest, otherwise you would not even have thought of posting the query in the first place. But what about the unscrupulous ones out there?
I doubt SEI will give you a straight answer on this one.This kind of thing gets sorted out in court by barristers when someone takes a test case.

sinnerboy

recedite wrote: »

If your firm only supervised construction they would have no financial interest in the outcome of the BER.
On the other hand if your firm specified materials or the design itself they might have.
For example, what if a client said "design me an A-Rated house" or "I want my existing poorly insulated house brought up to the current building regulation standards". If the BER then fell short of the mark, I imagine there would be some serious financial implications for the firm.There would be a temptation to modify the data input to DEAP in order to get out of a tricky situation.
I'm sure you and your firm are honest, otherwise you would not even have thought of posting the query in the first place. But what about the unscrupulous ones out there?
I doubt SEI will give you a straight answer on this one.This kind of thing gets sorted out in court by barristers when someone takes a test case.

SEI have given a straight answer and said that an architect may also be the BER assessor for houses they design and supervise . All professions are subject to liabilities from many sources .

recedite

It doesn't say that anywhere in the Code of Practice. But if that is their intention they should change the wording to suit.

sinnerboy

It is implicitly stated here

http://www.sei.ie/Your_Building/BER/BER_Assessors/BER_Assessor_Registration/BER_Assessor’s_Code_of_Conduct/

Paula Rice ( SEI ) explicitly stated it at the BER Assessors Association meeting in Athlone last year too

recedite

Can you be more specific? I don't see it implicitly stated.

sinnerboy wrote: »

It is implicitly stated here

http://www.sei.ie/Your_Building/BER/BER_Assessors/BER_Assessor_Registration/BER_Assessor’s_Code_of_Conduct/

Paula Rice ( SEI ) explicitly stated it at the BER Assessors Association meeting in Athlone last year too

sinnerboy

recedite wrote: »

Can you be more specific? I don't see it implicitly stated.

no