exceptional cirumstances

smegmar

here's a real life story I'm sure many of you might have been through.

A carnivore friend is happily eating some piece of animal and eventually decided he can't finish his meal, unaware that you are a veggie he offer's you the end of his meal, when the alternative is placing it in the bin. Being vegetarian for moral reasons, and the animal being dead anyway, is it o.k to eat that in your opinion?

axel rose

YUK!!!
That would not be an exceptional circumstance...........Throw the flesh in the bin!!!!!

Seriously the thoughts of eating some animals muscle would turn my stomach, I dont miss meat (Its not like being the designated driver).

However if my health or life depended on my taking a drug that was derived from animal products..........................

Crumble Froo

nope, wouldnt eat it.

for me exceptional circumstances like that would be more like being invited to dinner and getting served meat. i dont think i could eat it, but if it was to cause a lot of offence/embarrassment to refuse it... perhaps. in exceptional circumstances.

cosmic

Nope, under no circumstances whatsoever no no no! (for me anyway!)

-lala-

smegmar wrote: »

here's a real life story I'm sure many of you might have been through.

A carnivore friend is happily eating some piece of animal and eventually decided he can't finish his meal, unaware that you are a veggie he offer's you the end of his meal, when the alternative is placing it in the bin. Being vegetarian for moral reasons, and the animal being dead anyway, is it o.k to eat that in your opinion?

Absolutely not, how on earth is that an exceptional circumstance?! We're vegetarians and vegans, we DON'T eat meat. We don't just decide we'll have it the odd time if no-one else is going to eat it. Eww.

Thoushaltnot

Lets just alter that story, ever so slightly...

smegmar wrote: »

A carnivore friend, Hannibal Lecter, is happily eating some piece of animal and eventually decided he can't finish his meal, unaware that you are a veggie he offer's you the end of his meal, when the alternative is placing it in the bin. Being vegetarian for moral reasons, and the human being dead anyway, is it o.k to eat that in your opinion?

evogirl

What?? Would you normally eat other peoples leftovers? Meat or otherwise.

smegmar

smegmar wrote: »

here's a real life story I'm sure many of you might have been through.

A carnivore friend is happily eating some piece of animal and eventually decided he can't finish his meal, unaware that you are a veggie he offer's you the end of his meal, when the alternative is placing it in the bin. Being vegetarian for moral reasons, and the animal being dead anyway, is it o.k to eat that in your opinion?

Are you a veggie? Because afaik your body temporarily stops producing the enzymes that digest meat. So suddenly introducing some into your diet would lead to a serious case of the squits.

Besides that your sceanario is just a case of fooling oneself.

smegmar

I should clarify, I'm a veggie for moral reasons, I know some people just get sick at the thought of eating meat but that's not me. I like the taste of meat, it's nice. I know it's a slaughtered animal so I will not create a demand by buying it in shops. but if a carnivore had already done that anything I do will not effect the meat industry.

Imagine it this way, you are a lovely sheep/cow/chicken (I mean either, not some sort of genetic mixed mutant) and you're killed for your meat. well that sucks doesn't it.
now to add insult to injury the fat little b*s*a*d chewing on what used to be your legs says he's full after 3 bites and throws it away,
I'd prefer to be finished rather then thrown away after they killed me for it.

-lala-

smegmar wrote: »

I should clarify, I'm a veggie for moral reasons, I know some people just get sick at the thought of eating meat but that's not me. I like the taste of meat, it's nice. I know it's a slaughtered animal so I will not create a demand by buying it in shops. but if a carnivore had already done that anything I do will not effect the meat industry.

Imagine it this way, you are a lovely sheep/cow/chicken (I mean either, not some sort of genetic mixed mutant) and you're killed for your meat. well that sucks doesn't it.
now to add insult to injury the fat little b*s*a*d chewing on what used to be your legs says he's full after 3 bites and throws it away,
I'd prefer to be finished rather then thrown away after they killed me for it.

If you're a "vegetarian" for moral reasons, why are you trying to persuade us that we should eat meat?

smegmar

smegmar wrote: »

I should clarify, I'm a veggie for moral reasons, I know some people just get sick at the thought of eating meat but that's not me. I like the taste of meat, it's nice. I know it's a slaughtered animal so I will not create a demand by buying it in shops. but if a carnivore had already done that anything I do will not effect the meat industry.

Imagine it this way, you are a lovely sheep/cow/chicken (I mean either, not some sort of genetic mixed mutant) and you're killed for your meat. well that sucks doesn't it.
now to add insult to injury the fat little b*s*a*d chewing on what used to be your legs says he's full after 3 bites and throws it away,
I'd prefer to be finished rather then thrown away after they killed me for it.

Is this something that you have done then? Or something you hope will happen? Does the friend offer making it more acceptable to you?

Look you should do as your moral center dictates.


But personaly the less eating of my corpse the better. And the fact someone else paid for it, wouldn't lessen my awareness that I had acted like a driver in the system.

Thoushaltnot

What about feeding it to the neighbours cat? If you put it in the bin, I'm sure the local foxes might try to get at it either. Local wormery?

You said that you are veggie for moral reasons but like the taste of meat. You are now trying to make excuses for eating meat in "exceptional circumstances". Once you start making excuses, then thats the start of an inevitable slide, imho. I'm not trying to lecture you, it's just a human trait. But if the idea of returning to being a fully fledged omni/carnivore gives you the willies, maybe its better to nip this in the bud now.

I used to love my meat also but a few months after turning veggie, the smell of a roasting chicken became repulsive. Beef, another few months after that. Fish was my real weakness and the one which I succumbed to (for better reasons than the above but still an excuse). Now, when I get the temptation for fish, I know it's time to pay attention to my diet and see what I may be falling short on.

Quorn has the closest "mouthfeel" to meat - why not try some more of that - the fillets are on special in Centra at the mo Or experiment with seitan. I now like olives even tho I find them quite "meaty".

BTW

1. Would peeps be interested in a veggie/organic Bargains Alert here?

2. I'd also be interested to know what other people stories were of failure - the hows, whens and possible whys of eating meat/fish/fowl again were. Lessons to be learned, an' all that. Most of us know ex-veggies and, I'm sure, don't want to ever become one.

(Sorry, not meaning to hijack this thread)

-lala-

Thoushaltnot wrote: »

What about feeding it to the neighbours cat? If you put it in the bin, I'm sure the local foxes might try to get at it either. Local wormery?

You said that you are veggie for moral reasons but like the taste of meat. You are now trying to make excuses for eating meat in "exceptional circumstances". Once you start making excuses, then thats the start of an inevitable slide, imho. I'm not trying to lecture you, it's just a human trait. But if the idea of returning to being a fully fledged omni/carnivore gives you the willies, maybe its better to nip this in the bud now.

I used to love my meat also but a few months after turning veggie, the smell of a roasting chicken became repulsive. Beef, another few months after that. Fish was my real weakness and the one which I succumbed to (for better reasons than the above but still an excuse). Now, when I get the temptation for fish, I know it's time to pay attention to my diet and see what I may be falling short on.

Quorn has the closest "mouthfeel" to meat - why not try some more of that - the fillets are on special in Centra at the mo Or experiment with seitan. I now like olives even tho I find them quite "meaty".

I think Thoushaltnot hit the nail on the head here. Listen to her/him!

Thoushaltnot wrote: »

1. Would peeps be interested in a veggie/organic Bargains Alert here?

Yes!

Thoushaltnot wrote: »

2. I'd also be interested to know what other people stories were of failure - the hows, whens and possible whys of eating meat/fish/fowl again were. Lessons to be learned, an' all that. Most of us know ex-veggies and, I'm sure, don't want to ever become one.

Can't say I've ever felt a desire to eat meat, but I do know a few ex-vegans/ex-veggies and generally what seems to happen is that they go to a country where it's more difficult to find vegan/veggie food and end up eating dairy/eggs/meat/fish. I do think this is avoidable - whenever I go to a place where vegetarianism is less common, I usually manage to explain myself to the locals and get a plate of raw vegetables if nothing else, which I'm totally fine with (although obviously raw vegetables are not the best thing to eat in a country where the drinking water is contaminated, so do try to get them to cook the vegetables, and explain that you do NOT want it topped off with fish! I have had this problem in the far east!). And, in most countries, there is the option of getting dried fruit, etc, in a supermarket and eating that whenever veganism causes you to miss a meal, and of course it's very easy to bring things like dried fruit, breakfast bars, rice cakes etc with you.

Sorry for the very long-winded post!

rubadub

-lala- wrote: »

Absolutely not, how on earth is that an exceptional circumstance?! We're vegetarians and vegans, we DON'T eat meat.

Don't eat meat and in vegans cases do not use animal products. There was a similar enough thread a while ago about hypocrisy.

One of my veg friendly friends called me a hypocrite for being a vegan. I mean, of course I still have all my old leather stuff, I can't afford to throw them away

One reply was

Your friend's an ass. I'm a recent vegan and my rule is, if I bought it before I became a vegan, then it's fine to wear.

I was then asking if they found a steak in the freezer would they eat it, anwsers were no, give it away. By that logic the clothes should be given away too.

There was also a thread on pets a while ago, I would consider having a pet as "using the animal", though some argued against that. But I have read on some vegan site they were against breeding of pets. But in a similar way they would "save" pets from kennels since "the damage was done". But that keeping of pets still promotes the fashion/trend of pet keeping. Like a vegan still wearing leather might promote leather buying among their friends.

Similarly in this case "the damage is done", and the vegan who actually does like to the taste meat might view it the same way. Like if they were offered a leather couch that was otherwise to be throw out. esp. as in this case the food is almost definitely going to be tossed like in a restaurant.

Camarague

I have been asked this.

I don't think there is much of a moral issue with eating meat when it will just be thrown out otherwise..

But honestly having not eaten it in two years, the thought of eating it is stomach-churning

Kiddynamite

Isn't this kind of like freeganism? Well a certain aspect of it "Some freegans, sometimes called "meagans", consume meat and other animal products only if those animal products would otherwise be wasted."

SeekUp

smegmar wrote: »

I should clarify, I'm a veggie for moral reasons, I know some people just get sick at the thought of eating meat but that's not me. I like the taste of meat, it's nice. I know it's a slaughtered animal so I will not create a demand by buying it in shops. but if a carnivore had already done that anything I do will not effect the meat industry.

Imagine it this way, you are a lovely sheep/cow/chicken (I mean either, not some sort of genetic mixed mutant) and you're killed for your meat. well that sucks doesn't it.
now to add insult to injury the fat little b*s*a*d chewing on what used to be your legs says he's full after 3 bites and throws it away,
I'd prefer to be finished rather then thrown away after they killed me for it.

I hear what you're saying . . . and while I wouldn't consider that an exceptional circumstance, it doesn't seem as if eating the meat would go against your reasons for not buying meat/participating as a consumer.

For some people, and several posters here, eating an animal is the principle they care about most, so they would do whatever they could to stay true to that principle.

In your case, it seems as if the most important principles to you are preventing waste and not monetarily supporting the meat industry; You're not a hypocrite if you're doing what you believe and holding to the principles that are most important to you.

Imo.

Thoushaltnot

Was it not an option to freeze/refigerate the meat dish for another day?

Tar.Aldarion

No, but I have no problem eating an animal that died naturally.

maameeo

smegmar wrote: »

here's a real life story I'm sure many of you might have been through.

A carnivore friend is happily eating some piece of animal and eventually decided he can't finish his meal, unaware that you are a veggie he offer's you the end of his meal, when the alternative is placing it in the bin. Being vegetarian for moral reasons, and the animal being dead anyway, is it o.k to eat that in your opinion?

i think your reasoning on it is fair enough, if you feel its ok then yes. i understand how you see it as the animal has died for a reason and is being wasted. cant say id do it myself, i dont think there is any circumstances that i could put meat in my mouth, but thats just how i feel.
i do hold the 'waste not' stance with things like clothes and shoes, if someone gives me something, i wont waste it. it upsets me that the animal died for nothing, i wouldnt put money into the industry.

why would u want someones half eaten burger though? hope it was just an example :P

smegmar

it actually happened to me a while ago,

it was a chicken roll, in the end I binned it
but felt terrible afterwards. I'm sure something
similar has happened to someone on here

rubadub

Kiddynamite wrote: »

Isn't this kind of like freeganism? Well a certain aspect of it "Some freegans, sometimes called "meagans", consume meat and other animal products only if those animal products would otherwise be wasted."

Never heard of this but make sense. I imagine many people have views on poor land use, like how an acre of land would be more efficient growing some veg rather than breeding animals. In which case if they did not eat the animal they might end up "wasting" vegetables in favour of it.

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

No, but I have no problem eating an animal that died naturally.

That is interesting, sort of like fruitarians. I wonder if any butchers would have such meat, or a vet! obviously you do not want diseased meat, but there are people who eat roadkill.

Tar.Aldarion

rubadub wrote: »

That is interesting, sort of like fruitarians. I wonder if any butchers would have such meat, or a vet! obviously you do not want diseased meat, but there are people who eat roadkill.

It's like Buddha said, I don't think I should eat meat that was killed for you.

/Off to the vets for lunch.

-lala-

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

/Off to the vets for lunch.

Hmmm, I have a slightly creepy image in my head now of you standing in the corner of a vet's office waiting for the next cat to die! :P


As for my views on the whole thing, I'm a vegan because I not only believe it's wrong to kill an animal, but I also believe it's disrespectful to eat/use its remains. So I wouldn't eat something that died of natural causes, or sit on a couch that died of natural causes either. It's interesting to see what diverse views we all have on this issue!

Tar.Aldarion

-lala- wrote: »

Hmmm, I have a slightly creepy image in my head now of you standing in the corner of a vet's office waiting for the next cat to die! :P


As for my views on the whole thing, I'm a vegan because I not only believe it's wrong to kill an animal, but I also believe it's disrespectful to eat/use its remains. So I wouldn't eat something that died of natural causes, or sit on a couch that died of natural causes either. It's interesting to see what diverse views we all have on this issue!

What if I went to the hospital with consent forms for people? :P

-lala-

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

What if I went to the hospital with consent forms for people? :P

As in consent forms that say "I give permission for my organs to be harvested for Tar.Aldarion's dinner"?

Oh dear - maybe this should be the vegetarian and vegan but still possibly cannibal forum!

kraggy

One flaw in your reasoning Op, is that considering you like the taste of meat, you will go out of your way to find leftovers from dinners just to get the chance to eat meat while in actual fact you'd be simply fooling yourself thinking you're a vegetarian with this moral exception as your justification.

rubadub

kraggy wrote: »

you will go out of your way to find leftovers

Yep, like people who say they are not smokers since they do not buy cigarettes, just scab them off people.

Crumble Froo

aw man, i felt so bad today, a workmate brought in a chicken and veggie curry for me, not realising that im a veggie (honestly, ive known her about two years now, funny how some things just never seem to come up in conversation)... i felt really bad turning her down, she was all excited and stuff.

maameeo

Crumble Froo wrote: »

aw man, i felt so bad today, a workmate brought in a chicken and veggie curry for me, not realising that im a veggie (honestly, ive known her about two years now, funny how some things just never seem to come up in conversation)... i felt really bad turning her down, she was all excited and stuff.

aww crappy, hate when stuff like that happens. its happened a few times that people forgot im veggie!
im sure she understood, poor girl musta been so embarassed

rubadub

Crumble Froo wrote: »

for me exceptional circumstances like that would be more like being invited to dinner and getting served meat. i dont think i could eat it, but if it was to cause a lot of offence/embarrassment to refuse it... perhaps.

In these cases would anybody consider lying, e.g. saying you have a medical condition or allergy so under no circumstances could eat it.

I knew a guy who was tee-total, when out drinking he would often say he could not drink for medical reasons. It just nipped the topic in the bud, if he just said he did not drink he would have a bunch of drunk lads harassing & jeering him asking why not etc.

Stops the Mrs.Doyle "ah go on, ye will have some" comments.

Tar.Aldarion

rubadub wrote: »

In these cases would anybody consider lying, e.g. saying you have a medical condition or allergy so under no circumstances could eat it.

I knew a guy who was tee-total, when out drinking he would often say he could not drink for medical reasons. It just nipped the topic in the bud, if he just said he did not drink he would have a bunch of drunk lads harassing & jeering him asking why not etc.

Stops the Mrs.Doyle "ah go on, ye will have some" comments.

I just say I saw that meat causes impotence in the news :pac:

Mark Hamill

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

It's like Buddha said, I don't think I should eat meat that was killed for you.

/Off to the vets for lunch.

This vet?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I54kWsd9JIs

-lala-

rubadub wrote: »

In these cases would anybody consider lying, e.g. saying you have a medical condition or allergy so under no circumstances could eat it.

I knew a guy who was tee-total, when out drinking he would often say he could not drink for medical reasons. It just nipped the topic in the bud, if he just said he did not drink he would have a bunch of drunk lads harassing & jeering him asking why not etc.

Stops the Mrs.Doyle "ah go on, ye will have some" comments.

Heh, I can't drink beer or wine for medical reasons (although I can drink spirits), but I still just say I don't drink when offered a glass of wine (which is true - I could drink spirits but I choose not to). TBH I feel that if I'm not eating/drinking something for moral reasons, it's better that people know that that's why I'm doing so - I'm proud of being a vegan, so I'm not going to hide it just to stop a potentially mildly awkward moment from happening.

Crumble Froo

rubadub wrote: »

In these cases would anybody consider lying, e.g. saying you have a medical condition or allergy so under no circumstances could eat it.

on those grounds i usually just say that it's been so long since i ate meat that my body would definitely turn on me if i was to go for it now. which it would. i remember not eating vegetables for a while, then moving in with healhty eaters who insisted on cooking for me, and hoenstly, not good.
[/QUOTE]

maameeo wrote: »

aww crappy, hate when stuff like that happens. its happened a few times that people forgot im veggie!
im sure she understood, poor girl musta been so embarassed

ah, it's all good,wé're a pretty open bunch here, just felt bad that she'd done the effort and thoughtful thing and id to turn her down, but water under teh bridge really.

smegmar

Crumble Froo wrote: »

aw man, i felt so bad today, a workmate brought in a chicken and veggie curry for me, not realising that im a veggie (honestly, ive known her about two years now, funny how some things just never seem to come up in conversation)... i felt really bad turning her down, she was all excited and stuff.

so what happened to the curry in the end? bin or did she eat two meals?
it's horrible when this happens and you're stuck in that situation.

maameeo

rubadub wrote: »

In these cases would anybody consider lying, e.g. saying you have a medical condition or allergy so under no circumstances could eat it.

i wouldnt lie but sometimes i avoid telling people to avoid the awkwardness! i find if someone offers me jellies i say 'oh i dont eat them thanks' but i still get asked 'why??!'
and im not a great lier! lol

I can't drink beer or wine for medical reasons (although I can drink spirits)

hey lala, hope u dont mind me asking, is it allergy related? just i find im terrible sick with beers/cider/wine and iv just discovered spirits dont make me sick! just curious.

Crumble Froo

smegmar wrote: »

so what happened to the curry in the end? bin or did she eat two meals?
it's horrible when this happens and you're stuck in that situation.

duno... she probably gave it to a client or something, knowing her. might have saved it for herself for later.

-lala-

maameeo wrote: »

hey lala, hope u dont mind me asking, is it allergy related? just i find im terrible sick with beers/cider/wine and iv just discovered spirits dont make me sick! just curious.

No I don't mind you asking at all - yes, it's a yeast intolerance. Live yeast is present in beer and wine but not in spirits, and the yeast used in bread, cakes etc is killed during the baking process as it is only a very small amount, so the only things it prevents me from having are beer and wine, which I have never had any desire to drink!

siobhanher

Imo, if you are able to eat a piece of meat under no extreme(life or death..) duress, then your not a vegetarian. I'm lactose intolerant, and a vegetarian, and I don't use any other products like leather, fur...but I still call myself vegetarian, because if I didn't have my allergy I probably would have an egg, or some cheese now and again. I have no problem admitting that. I wouldn't call myself a vegan if I wasn't eating everything that a vegan doesn't eat for moral reasons.

Economically your doing the right thing. But health wise and more important morally, your not so good.

maameeo

-lala- wrote: »

No I don't mind you asking at all - yes, it's a yeast intolerance. Live yeast is present in beer and wine but not in spirits, and the yeast used in bread, cakes etc is killed during the baking process as it is only a very small amount, so the only things it prevents me from having are beer and wine, which I have never had any desire to drink!

ah i see, wud it be like being celiac? wud they do an allergy test on drinks? i shud get myself tested! i get so sick from drinking them, and very small amounts, not like im mad drinker, one pint and id be feeling nauseous! eek

-lala-

maameeo wrote: »

ah i see, wud it be like being celiac? wud they do an allergy test on drinks? i shud get myself tested! i get so sick from drinking them, and very small amounts, not like im mad drinker, one pint and id be feeling nauseous! eek

No, coeliac disease is gluten intolerance, which is in beer, bread, cakes, etc (not in wine!).

That nauseous feeling after a very small amount does sound very food-intolerancy, you can get tested to see if you are sensitive to any one (or more) of several foods, I'll send you a pm with details of the guy I went to.

SeekUp

siobhanher wrote: »

Economically your doing the right thing. But health wise and more important morally, your not so good.

But it's not really "not so good." It's just what's right for smegmar, and if it doesn't go against what he/she believes, then . . . okay then.

maameeo

-lala- wrote: »

No, coeliac disease is gluten intolerance, which is in beer, bread, cakes, etc (not in wine!).

That nauseous feeling after a very small amount does sound very food-intolerancy, you can get tested to see if you are sensitive to any one (or more) of several foods, I'll send you a pm with details of the guy I went to.

cool! thanks lala!

Mentalmiss

cosmic wrote: »

Nope, under no circumstances whatsoever no no no! (for me anyway!)

Ditto

ztoical

An exceptional circumstance would be crashing on a mountain top or being stuck in a life raft in the middle of the ocean. If it was a matter of survival I would eat meat, heck I'd eat other humans in those cases, no worries.

Eviecus

ztoical wrote: »

An exceptional circumstance would be crashing on a mountain top or being stuck in a life raft in the middle of the ocean.

I agree... I still don't think I could bring myself to eat an animal if that's all the food there was. I guess I'd try find out what it was eating and see if it will share with me! (Presuming it's a herbivore of course).

I can't believe this question...how is that an exceptional circumstance!? The person who threw out the poor chicken is the one that should feel bad, not you. It was THEM who bought it. Under no circumstances would I eat an animal just because it would go in the bin otherwise. No way! I might as well be a freegan and eat road kill if that's the case! I love animals and choose not to eat them, for me. I would not eat someone's leftovers just to save on waste, funk that. Some creature would eat it if you left it out for them, even if it was a rat. Hell rats need food too!