Earning 2k in 3 months?

Dirk_Diggler

Have a roll of $2500 to work with. Currently playing the turbo sngs on Full Tilt (9 seater), $22 ones, but I haven't been able to put in the volume of late Went over two weeks without playing but nothing I could have done about it really. I'm a standard player, I don't tilt badly at all, just struggle to put in large amounts of hours considering I've other things going on. Have a 27% rakeback deal as well. Normally I don't withdraw and keep any winnings as part of my roll but this time it's different.

So, achievable? What sort of hours should I be trying to put in weekly? It's similar to 'how long is a piece of string', I know


thanks.

lee_arama

Is this on a particular site?

I know iPoker have 'double your money' SnGs which are great for grinding since you only need to be level headed and patient to make it to the final half.

Jesus Wept

Get a better rakeback deal imo.

Dirk_Diggler

Don't think you can better than 27% on FT, can you?

Chucky the tree

Does it have to be turbo SnG's? If you're just looking to make $2k and don't mind playing DoN then I'd say go to Ipoker and bonus whore 3 sites for the $600 sign up bonus, you'll get extra on top of this from rakeback as well.


P.S As per you're sig it's not possible to get rakeback on stars, they have a special VIP system. The best thing to do is sign up to stars with a kickback site to earn an extra $100 or so.

Chucky the tree

Dirk_Diggler wrote: »

Don't think you can better than 27% on FT, can you?

No, so you're better of switching sites.

Dirk_Diggler

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Does it have to be turbo SnG's? If you're just looking to make $2k and don't mind playing DoN then I'd say go to Ipoker and bonus whore 3 sites for the $600 sign up bonus, you'll get extra on top of this from rakeback as well.


P.S As per you're sig it's not possible to get rakeback on stars, they have a special VIP system. The best thing to do is sign up to stars with a kickback site to earn an extra $100 or so.

I've never played DoN. Best way to approach them? Anything I've read about them has been along the lines of 'they've been cracked' etc. I used to play on Ipoker but found that the traffic was poor and decided to move to Full Tilt. Which three sites would you recommend? I already have an account on GJP.

By the way, do you get the full rakeback amount when bonus whoring on ipoker? On FT I only got a % of it while claiming the bonus which was a bummer.


Thanks.

Chucky the tree

Dirk_Diggler wrote: »

I've never played DoN. Best way to approach them? Anything I've read about them has been along the lines of 'they've been cracked' etc. I used to play on Ipoker but found that the traffic was poor and decided to move to Full Tilt. Which three sites would you recommend? I already have an account on GJP.

By the way, do you get the full rakeback amount when bonus whoring on ipoker? On FT I only got a % of it while claiming the bonus which was a bummer.


Thanks.

I don't play many DoN's now but I was **** at them when I did so I'm not the one to ask for tips. but here's the 2+2 strat thread for them http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/36/stt-strategy/official-don-strategy-thread-read-op-390910/

They probaly have been cracked in that winrates that could originally be attained can anymore but even if you're only b/e you make the money from RB. Tbh some like you with SnG experience should still be able to post a profit in them though, especially the $20 games which I'd say would be pretty soft.

Ipoker bonus aren't deducted so you'll get the full $600 and then you can cash in all the points.

Dirk_Diggler

What's the traffic like on ipoker for DoNs? What's the runtime of these normally (comparable to turbos)? Do you think this is achievable?

Drakar

Well they're way faster than a regular table as the game ends when half the people are out, I played a few, cant remember how long but I'd guess 30 mins? Tables seemed to fill in less than a minute, but depends on the level I guess and again it might have changed since I played.

Chucky the tree

Dirk_Diggler wrote: »

What's the traffic like on ipoker for DoNs? What's the runtime of these normally (comparable to turbos)? Do you think this is achievable?

4 DoN running now and 1 regular turbo. It's busier from about 7 onwards. Usually 30 minutes is the run time. I think 2k in 3 months is a piece of piss, 2k in 1 month would be even do able if you were willing to put the work in.

bingobars

90 Seater KOs on FTP, 1/2 decent player should be able to ROI of at least 20%.

1 games takes 2.5hrs from 90 to 1 (it wont be like that every time obv)

I find that is you play 4 hr sessions and you will get 10 games if you six table at peak play.

80 sessions of 4hrs (at 20% ROI)

90 Seater specialists could achive over 100% ROI

There are also 20$ games (+$4 KO)

Simple.

Mr.Plough

Dirk_Diggler wrote: »

Have a roll of $2500 to work with. Currently playing the turbo sngs on Full Tilt (9 seater), $22 ones, but I haven't been able to put in the volume of late Went over two weeks without playing but nothing I could have done about it really. I'm a standard player, I don't tilt badly at all, just struggle to put in large amounts of hours considering I've other things going on. Have a 27% rakeback deal as well. Normally I don't withdraw and keep any winnings as part of my roll but this time it's different.

So, achievable? What sort of hours should I be trying to put in weekly? It's similar to 'how long is a piece of string', I know


thanks.

depends whether you're good at poker or not.

A "standard player" is usually a losing one

sikes

bingobars wrote: »

90 Seater KOs on FTP, 1/2 decent player should be able to ROI of at least 20%.

1 games takes 2.5hrs from 90 to 1 (it wont be like that every time obv)

I find that is you play 4 hr sessions and you will get 10 games if you six table at peak play.

80 sessions of 4hrs (at 20% ROI)

90 Seater specialists could achive over 100% ROI

There are also 20$ games (+$4 KO)

Simple.

whats a KO? seems ridic high variance and a bad idea though

BigToad

sikes wrote: »

whats a KO? seems ridic high variance and a bad idea though

the ko bit lowers the varience cos u get money back when u take some1 out.

Treehouse72

Planning on winning a given amount in a given time is not a great approach. I guess Tommy Angelo would call it wrong thinking. Inevitably, you chase the aspirational total, or you chase your losses, always looking at the clock and your ROI rather than the cards.

I'd forget about the money and concentrate on playing well and seeing where you end up.

BuChan

play the 24 and some 50 dolla mtts on full tilt. big scores to be had.
step 1: underpants!

Eyecatcher

I wouldnt play Double Up games on sites which charge 10% juice

other sites it is 5%

20 $10 games and $10 saved ....you see my point !

fatguy

Eyecatcher wrote: »

I wouldnt play Double Up games on sites which charge 10% juice

other sites it is 5%

20 $10 games and $10 saved ....you see my point !

I agree with this. The rego is far too high for a lot of Double or Nothing games.

pokerkingsni

Eyecatcher wrote: »

I wouldnt play Double Up games on sites which charge 10% juice

other sites it is 5%

20 $10 games and $10 saved ....you see my point !

Which sites have 5% reg on the DoNs?

Eyecatcher

Stars

Eyecatcher

if you thinking of grinding at this type of game ..heres a useful article..

Double or Nothing SNG Strategy – Stage by Stage

Early Stages – Blinds 10 / 20 to 25 / 50:

• Watch your opponents, grinders will be folding 95% of hands here while those new to the game will raise or call with a wider range. Find out who is only playing top hands and avoid them later in the game.
• Fold all but premium hands in early position and avoid flat calling raises from any position, reraising with monsters. Big-pot hands such as small pairs can be limped behind from later positions, however if a player yet to act has shown themselves to be aggressive this should also be avoided.
• Preserving your stack is key in the first few blind levels. This gives opponents the opportunity to bust each other, while maintaining the threat of a large raise during the middle stages.

Middle Stages – Blinds 25 / 50 to 75 / 150:

• With a small ante kicking-in at the 25 / 50 blind levels the incentive to steal blinds is increased, by the 50 / 100 level this becomes an important stack-maintenance strategy. Combine good position with your prior observations and focus on the medium-stacks and the tight opponents at your table to ensure that you steal your share.
• Rarely call any raises. Any time you are faced with a raise you should ask yourself how often you expect your opponent to fold to a re-raise, based on previous behavior, their position and expected raising / calling ranges. If your hand is not good enough to re-raise all-in then it is rarely good enough to see a flop with when the risk of losing chips is vital to the later stages of the game.
• Stack size considerations start to become important during the middle stages, especially in those games where 3 players have already busted. Avoid playing pots with the very large stacks where possible. You should also bear in mind that a short-stack might make a stand with a less than premium hand and avoid being pot-committed against them without a strong holding – flipping a coin for half of your stack in a disaster with such a flat payout structure.

Late Stages – Blinds 100 / 200 +

• At the 6-player bubble and interesting phenomenon occurs, with (hypothetical) ‘even stacks’ each player would have an equity equal to 16.66% of the prize pool – so $16.66c in the $10 buy-in games. However, winning an all-in can only increase this to 20% (or $20 in our example). In any confrontation you are risking almost $17 to win an additional $3 – this ratio affects bubble strategy in a fundamental way.
• Never calling all-in during the late stages should be your default strategy, with only very rare exceptions where you either hold aces or have a very large or very small stack. This also relates to situations where calling a smaller raise would commit either you or your opponent to the pot.
• Pushing all-in to steal the blinds is a great strategy against players who understand the dynamics of the Double or Nothing Sit N Go bubble. Since you should be called only a tiny amount of the time this is a low-risk way of ensuring you maintain enough chips. Your observations from early in the game are important. If an opponent calls with a weak hand then ask yourself how you could have predicted this from previous hands before you blame someone for ‘bad play’.
• Folding is profitable at an aggressive table, with 6 people at the bubble there is a higher chance of 2 other players busting than in a normal SNG. This also means that the ‘pressure’ from the blinds is lower than usual. Folding should be the default play from the first two positions assuming you have maintained a playable stack.

Double or Nothing SNG Strategy – Final Thoughts

Poker is all about adjusting to the situation and your opponents, the profits from Double or Nothing SNGs comes from thinking through the structure + bubble-dynamics and then ‘out-adjusting’ your opponents. Remember, in terms of the risk / reward at the bubble it can be correct to fold a hand such as Ace-King even if you know your experienced opponent is pushing any 2 cards – if you are capable of understanding why this is (and acting on it!) then you will find the Double or Nothing SNGs very profitable indeed.

corigi

Eyecatcher wrote: »

if you thinking of grinding at this type of game ..heres a useful article..

Double or Nothing SNG Strategy – Stage by Stage

Early Stages – Blinds 10 / 20 to 25 / 50:

• Watch your opponents, grinders will be folding 95% of hands here while those new to the game will raise or call with a wider range. Find out who is only playing top hands and avoid them later in the game.
• Fold all but premium hands in early position and avoid flat calling raises from any position, reraising with monsters. Big-pot hands such as small pairs can be limped behind from later positions, however if a player yet to act has shown themselves to be aggressive this should also be avoided.
• Preserving your stack is key in the first few blind levels. This gives opponents the opportunity to bust each other, while maintaining the threat of a large raise during the middle stages.

Middle Stages – Blinds 25 / 50 to 75 / 150:

• With a small ante kicking-in at the 25 / 50 blind levels the incentive to steal blinds is increased, by the 50 / 100 level this becomes an important stack-maintenance strategy. Combine good position with your prior observations and focus on the medium-stacks and the tight opponents at your table to ensure that you steal your share.
• Rarely call any raises. Any time you are faced with a raise you should ask yourself how often you expect your opponent to fold to a re-raise, based on previous behavior, their position and expected raising / calling ranges. If your hand is not good enough to re-raise all-in then it is rarely good enough to see a flop with when the risk of losing chips is vital to the later stages of the game.
• Stack size considerations start to become important during the middle stages, especially in those games where 3 players have already busted. Avoid playing pots with the very large stacks where possible. You should also bear in mind that a short-stack might make a stand with a less than premium hand and avoid being pot-committed against them without a strong holding – flipping a coin for half of your stack in a disaster with such a flat payout structure.

Late Stages – Blinds 100 / 200 +

• At the 6-player bubble and interesting phenomenon occurs, with (hypothetical) ‘even stacks’ each player would have an equity equal to 16.66% of the prize pool – so $16.66c in the $10 buy-in games. However, winning an all-in can only increase this to 20% (or $20 in our example). In any confrontation you are risking almost $17 to win an additional $3 – this ratio affects bubble strategy in a fundamental way.
• Never calling all-in during the late stages should be your default strategy, with only very rare exceptions where you either hold aces or have a very large or very small stack. This also relates to situations where calling a smaller raise would commit either you or your opponent to the pot.
• Pushing all-in to steal the blinds is a great strategy against players who understand the dynamics of the Double or Nothing Sit N Go bubble. Since you should be called only a tiny amount of the time this is a low-risk way of ensuring you maintain enough chips. Your observations from early in the game are important. If an opponent calls with a weak hand then ask yourself how you could have predicted this from previous hands before you blame someone for ‘bad play’.
• Folding is profitable at an aggressive table, with 6 people at the bubble there is a higher chance of 2 other players busting than in a normal SNG. This also means that the ‘pressure’ from the blinds is lower than usual. Folding should be the default play from the first two positions assuming you have maintained a playable stack.

Double or Nothing SNG Strategy – Final Thoughts

Poker is all about adjusting to the situation and your opponents, the profits from Double or Nothing SNGs comes from thinking through the structure + bubble-dynamics and then ‘out-adjusting’ your opponents. Remember, in terms of the risk / reward at the bubble it can be correct to fold a hand such as Ace-King even if you know your experienced opponent is pushing any 2 cards – if you are capable of understanding why this is (and acting on it!) then you will find the Double or Nothing SNGs very profitable indeed.

I must say that is a great write up...Will have to review this tonight(outside of work) but there is some valuable/profitable information in it..

BigToad

If u have a 2.5K roll why don't u just cash out 2K and play with 500, then u don't need to win anything.

I've never played a DoN but I can't imagine win rates are that high, it prob takes a lot of games to win 2K even with rake back.

Maybe I'm wrong but surely standard varience plays a part in them as well and it seems like a pretty long way to win 2k.

U'd be better of spending that time improving ur game and playing normal games within ur bankroll with no pressure to win money I'd think.

TommyGunne

DON SNGs would be the most horrible way to do this. They are mind numbingly boring, and having an ROI of over 5% is pretty impressive given that they're infested with nits, and even fish play them ok. Just stick 2k on black. If it comes up you've just saved yourself two months, if not, stick 500 on a third and you're nearly back to where you started.

Dirk_Diggler

Haha Tommy, fair enough. Would you consider the Turbo SnGs (full ring) on Full Tilt a safer and better option to achieve this goal, even though the rakeback for that site is only 27%? I noticed the same tournaments on ipoker have still a really low number of people playing them (I can have 6 tables up and running on FT in just a few minutes).

noaces

I guess the fairest way to answer this is that there is no one easy way to make money plaing poker. Generally most players try most various forms of the game and after a while they will find that one particular type of game suits them more than others. Then after a lot of effort and time spent thinking about their game of choice they might or might not become particularly good at it. A lot of people dont give certain games enough time and dont understand the enormity of variance.

In short if you want to win money playing poker you are going to have to choose one particular game and then proceed to work your arse off at it. At the top of my head if a newcomer asked me what games they should lay I would say STT. But then again I believe the softest games around right now are 6 handed PLO especially in the .25/.50 levels down partivularly on the european players only sites(but this is just one mans opinion).

I hope I havent put you off your goal here. Just be ready to work your ass off and as a previous poster play concentrate more on how your playing and not ion ROI or results.