Money, Greed & Gambling?

LegacyUser

Going unreg for this.

I'm in my late twenties, in a well-paid job and am engaged to a woman who I love. I am perfectly content with my life, however, something my sister recently said to me is starting to bother me. She said that I was obsessed with money. I'm starting to think that maybe she's right.

When I think about it, I am actually constantly thinking of money and how to make more of it. I earn about €50k a year, I end up saving or investing nearly half of it. I have a web business that I run on the side. It only turns over a little over a thousand a month, but it only takes up 2 or 3 hours a week so I'm happy enough to run with it. I am constantly reading the financial reports of companies, looking for bargains in the stock market. At this stage, I must hold shares in nearly 100 different companies. I follow each of them closely and have even attend a few companies AGM's! People seem to think that this behaviour is a little kooky; I don't know, is it? I have also even set aside a small amount of my money on sports gambling. At first is started off as being the odd €5 or €10 here and there. At this stage, I'm now gambling sums that are over the thousand mark. I win some bets and lose other bets, but overall I'm up by well over a 5-figure sum. Unfortunately, my mother has seen an account summary print-out when she was visiting me one day and now thinks I'm throwing my money away and will end up like my father (when he was alive - he lost a lot of money our family could not afford to lose). I tried to explain to her that I would never bet over 10% of what I have and that I would never go into debt to gamble, but the emotional prejudice she has against gambling is too strong. What bothers me most about the gambling is less so the gambling itself, but the amount of time I devote to it. I probably spend 3-4 hours a day watching prices, analysing form, reading articles. I love doing what I do, but my fiancee and friends seem to think I'm not acting my age!

Today, if I was to cash out of everything I own, I think I would have over €500,000, all of it made off my own sweat. Is this an abnormal amount of money for a person of my age to have made? Now don't get me wrong. I'm not a miser (at least I don't think so!). If my family or fiancee ever need anything, I am the first person to offer help. The wedding I have planned and already paid for with no corner cutting. I know someone will probably advise that I start living a little or to go travelling or something. I've been travelling before, but to be honest, it wasn't something I really enjoyed. I work so hard that I rather relaxtion-type holidays, like sitting by a pool or getting a bit of golf in. I simply don't see the fuss in being constantly on the road and being stressed out!

I'm not really sure where this post has gone or what exactly my personal issue is! I suppose I'm just wondering if my behaviour is merely eccentric or whether it's something that I should be worried about?

LouOB

Attending AGM's that you have an interest in i.e. shares, is not kooky and I think its commendable.

But if you are constantly thinking about money you have to ask yourself why.
Perhaps your sister might be 1. worried you will fall into trap like father 2. jealous of your hard work. If your spending is causing family worry, it looks like it may have become a bad habit (even if you dont think its big)
BTW spending over a grand a month on gambling is excessive for anyone's lifestyle
Put it another way - would you give out to your OH for spending that much a month on shoes/bags?

Perhaps a change of behaviour?
Have you consulted with a financial advisor recently (independant of the banks)? It sounds like you need some guidance

humanji

To be honest, it just sounds like you're smart with money. You've made a lot and you're not throwing it all away. As long as you make sure you always have somethign to fall back on, then gambling what you can afford isn't that big a deal (but it is always something you should keep an eye on, by the way. You father most likely didn't start of thinking he was going to lose so much money!).

But if you're happy, and living comfortably, then you've nothing to worry about. Good for you. I'm older than you and have quite literally nothing to my name, so you're doing something right!

Taltos

I also am older than you with again v little to show

Think also that you are doing a great job - well done mate.
But would just caution you to always hold true to only betting what you can afford. I know of friends of the family who started out like this - made a few losses - and then lost everything else chasing that win that would get it back for them.
They too always said they were in control of their gambling - but did get hooked. Luckily he has since turned himself around - got treatment and is getting on with his life.

I guess your family after seeing what happened to your dad are concerned.
Maybe they are afraid that the gambling bug is genetic and that when it comes to the crunch you will be unable to help yourself. Not sure if I agree to that - think we each have to take responsibility for our own lives - but once you know there is a risk there you can plan for it

jacool

LouOB wrote: »

BTW spending over a grand a month on gambling is excessive for anyone's lifestyle. Put it another way - would you give out to your OH for spending that much a month on shoes/bags?

If you're making the money you don't have to give it to your OH. A grand a month is not over excessive for a lot of lifestyles, premier league footballers, stock market high rollers, etc. If you are making a mint than a grand a month is OK relative to your earnings. If you earned 2 grand a month I'd be worried alright.
A bigger question might be this one. What would you do if you won, say the Lotto tonight, over €5m ? Would you quit work, or continue with this current lifestyle, including the investments, gambling, etc ? i.e. Is this your lifestyle choice and is the money not overly significant ?

LouOB

jacool wrote: »

If you're making the money you don't have to give it to your OH. A grand a month is not over excessive for a lot of lifestyles, premier league footballers, stock market high rollers, etc. If you are making a mint than a grand a month is OK relative to your earnings. If you earned 2 grand a month I'd be worried alright.
A bigger question might be this one. What would you do if you won, say the Lotto tonight, over €5m ? Would you quit work, or continue with this current lifestyle, including the investments, gambling, etc ? i.e. Is this your lifestyle choice and is the money not overly significant ?

Ok so spending 12,000 a year on something you *might not get back isnt excessive? That is someones salary or dole money

If a woman wants to spend 12,000 a year on shoes - does that look better? (of her own money that is)

OP is NOT a professional footballer, topless model or Alan Sugar. BTW most stock market high-rollers are in the dole queue. I am just putting it in perspective - its alot of money. He also goes golfing - thats alot of money to spend also - fees, gear and possible trips. Gambling is not a hobby but OP is treating it as one. Instead maybe he should invest that money in a horse?

Again the amount of money may well be small compared to your net worth or incoming income. But it is still alot of money to spend each month.

IanCurtis

This isn't a personal issue. It's one long boast, most of which is made up.

You remind me of "Loadsamoney" from the 1980s. A real businessman wouldn't come on here bragging about what they have, they would have some dignity and keep quiet, which is why I'm presuming this is 90% lies.

Pathetic.

petes

IanCurtis wrote: »

This isn't a personal issue. It's one long boast, most of which is made up.

You remind me of "Loadsamoney" from the 1980s. A real businessman wouldn't come on here bragging about what they have, they would have some dignity and keep quiet, which is why I'm presuming this is 90% lies.

Pathetic.

Well done. Why post anonomously if they only came on to boast?

Xiney

Iancurtis banned for one month for unhelpful posting. Having had previous bans from this forum, should have known better already.

Insurgent, please report posts that you take issue with rather than posting off topic. Thanks.

CDfm

To get any idea you would need to look at your pattern of betting etc. Do you look at it as a must do or is it a relaxation thing.What kind of kick if any do you get from it and can you stop?

smellslikeshoes

I think mothers will always have something to say, if she didn't know about the gambling she would probably be telling you that you that you're not living enough etc.

You're a well off person who works hard at what they do and there is no shame in it. The only thing I would say though is the gambling is a very very slippery slope, I understand that you are in the black with it but that probably won't always be the case. Thousand euro plus bets are obviously setting off alarm bells

MoneyObsessed wrote: »

I tried to explain to her that I would never bet over 10% of what I have and that I would never go into debt to gamble,

I've heard this exact same thing before and the person who used to say it to me lost his wife over it and is now a broken shell of a man. Gambling takes over peoples lives, don't let it happen to you.

Jesus Wept

MoneyObsessed wrote: »

She said that I was obsessed with money. I'm starting to think that maybe she's right.

I'm sure you do consider money and financial matters more than most people, the thing is though, most people don't consider their finances and money as much as they should and rarely in the right way.

It's a crying shame the education system doesn't actually teach people life skills, properly prepare them/us for the future.

MoneyObsessed wrote: »

I have a web business that I run on the side. It only turns over a little over a thousand a month, but it only takes up 2 or 3 hours a week so I'm happy enough to run with it.

I'd love to be able to do that, that's a nice return on time spent, imo.

LouOB wrote: »

Ok so spending 12,000 a year on something you *might not get back isnt excessive? That is someones salary or dole money

If a woman wants to spend 12,000 a year on shoes - does that look
better? (of her own money that is)
money

Yes but it isn't his salary.
12k spend of a 500k net worth isn't a big amount.

Shoes don't come in it, I could spend 120e a year on toothpicks, it's only 1% of the 12k figure batted about but it wouldn't make it an astute purchase.

LouOB wrote: »

BTW most stock market high-rollers are in the dole queue. I am just putting it in perspective - its alot of money.

On what are you basing that?
The negligent ones took a hit but they'd have found a way to go broke regardless of the economic circumstances.
Often a lot more money can be made when things go tits up than when things are going well by people who in the know.

LouOB wrote: »

Gambling is not a hobby but OP is treating it as one.

Gambling is a hobby for most people that partake in it, it's part of the entertainment industry, like it or not.
Some people play the lotto, some make a few bets on sporting events for interest, some play poker with friends or in pub games. It's a cheaper form of entertainment than many others that are available but for some reason, have a lot less stigma attached to them.

LouOB wrote: »

Instead maybe he should invest that money in a horse?

I'd consider that a bigger gamble than anything the OP has yet undertaken, the amount of people who can properly ascertain potential in horses is incredibly minute and even then there is a huge amount of room for error.
For every champion there are an awful lot of donkeys that people paid good money for.

LouOB wrote: »

Again the amount of money may well be small compared to your net worth or incoming income. But it is still a lot of money to spend each month.

That's exactly the point, it's all relative to his income & monetary worth.
I wouldn't expect Bill Gates to take the bus home from work. (he probably does though, the sap).

LouOB wrote: »

He also goes golfing - thats alot of money to spend also - fees, gear and possible trips.

It's a lot of money for some but he has a net worth of 500, he's in his mid 20's, frankly he has earned it and should enjoy his golf trips and so forth.

My advice to the OP is to put and keep a tight leash on the sports/horse betting, if it is purely for entertainment and it's money you can well afford to lose, then keep it like that and enjoy it.
If the amount you are betting is ever increasing or the the reason you are putting on larger bets is not because you genuinely believe the value is there, then you are chasing.
Regardless, the value probably isn't there, so keep it small relative to what you have, and if it's getting out of hand, cut it out of your life.

The amount of people who can make money from sports betting over time is minute, well below one percent and you are probably not one of those people, I'm not.
You could replace it with poker as you will have a much greater chance of making money over the long term, especially as you sound conscientious.

LadyJ

MoneyObsessed wrote: »

I love doing what I do, but my fiancee and friends seem to think I'm not acting my age!

Your fiancee will have a different opinion in 20 years time when she realises that the man she loves has worked hard and saved enough money so that you can both retire in your mid 40s!

Your friends will just be sick and jealous.

Is this an abnormal amount of money for a person of my age to have made?

It's not typical I suppose but are you bothered? If I was you I certainly wouldn't be.

As for the gambling, it sounds like you're doing it the right way. Stop worrying about what people think. You can feel smug in the knowledge that you are going to be far better of than them in the future.

LegacyUser

full time job,
2-3 hours a week on web biz
3-4 hours a day monitoring markets/form

Do you do anything else apart from making money. Chasing money is very addictive, especially when you are good at it, accumulating 500k give the way the markets went over the last few years is very good. I've seen guys work 7 days a week12-16 hour days chasing money, they had the cars, houses, girls, partied hard when they took a break, but they had no sense of who they were as a person.
When things went wrong, they couldn't handle it, because money was all they were and without it they felt worthless.

Try and cut out the gambling, even from a financial point of few it's not worth it, to easy to loose everything. You started off at 5-10€ now up to 1k, how long before that becomes 10k, things can very easily spiral out of control.

lushballs

Is your money making behaviour affecting your relationships? What amount of time do you spend with your partner?

sunshinegirl

Hey OP

very admirable post about your money making skills,most people have no idea how to do so.You say you like to gamble ,your mother doesnt approve thats a lesson learnt to her,so why not try and understand her pain,worry and heartache over it.

Why not donate your grand a month to a charity to something worth while,why not do that make your ma,other half,yourself proud in doing that.

why not help some less fortunate than yourself?take an active roll in making money for a charity?now theres something you can be proud of too.

zxcvbnm1

OP - just to clarify - are you saying that you would have 500k net worth after you sold everything?

Because if you are then how did you do it?
That's not a rhetorical question by the way.

Something doesn't add up to me. I smell a rat.

How much seed money did you have initially and how long ago did you start off?

WHat's your year-on-year average percentage gain?

galwaybob

OP you seem like a man with his head screwed on. One bit of advice I will give you is never place a bet worth more than 3% of your funds.For more advice on this area you can pm me.

jbl123

I'd say keep doing what you're doing, since it seems to be working for you. Maybe you should spend less time TALKING about money with people like your sister who may not share the same level of interest you have. If you are old enough to be enganged, then there is no reason your mother needs to be looking at your financial documents...Stop giving her and others TMI.

newestUser

Lots of people are a bit narrow-minded/conservative, and think that if you're doing something that's unusual, you're a freak. Even if it's a really good idea.
Bookmakers are very good at estimating probabilities for the outcomes of sporting events, and if you bet level stakes, you shouldn't, at worst, lose more than 9-12% of your total stakes. If you're making 4 figure bets, that's slightly worrying, but bearing in mind your net worth is 500,000, that's the same as someone worth 50,000 betting 80-100 here and there, which if you've got your head screwed on, doesn't automatically mean there's a problem. There's not much for concern in what you've told us, but more details about how much you bet, what staking system you use, etc. might be useful. My only concern is that you might be spending a bit too much time on your various money-making schemes, and might be neglecting other parts of your life.

LegacyUser

Thanks for the replies.

Firstly, this isn't one long boast. No one knows how much I have, not even my fiancee; although she would suspect that I'm reasonably well off. Infact, I'd hate for anyone to think I had money, I want to be treated for who I am and not what I have.

Secondly, I'm glad you all don't think that I'm crazy! I actually care a lot what people think of me. I think that it might be a good idea to take a step back and maybe do some voluntary work? I spend almost all of my money-making activities alone. While I'm happy to be alone, I guess I don't get very much self-satisfaction from what I do. I still play a little football, so volunteering down at the club with the kids sounds like a great idea to give something back.

Hazys

There nothing wrong with your hobby being playing the markets. It seems like you obviously enjoy it, so keep it up as long as your not taking high risk with all your money. I think its immaturity and jealousy more than anything is the reason people have a problem.

Im a small bit confused by your post, how much of the 10% is investing in markets and how much is sports betting? You also said you invest/save half you're salary?

If its 10% of your salary 5000E on sports betting it doesnt seem that bad. I presume you bet through an online site where its v easy to track your spending. Imagine if people could easily track how much they spend on alcohol and nights out like that? I could easliy see a lot of people in Ireland spending in that region and earning less money.

The only thing id be worried about is you started off small and its got bigger which may just be natural but it may mean you need to keep an eye on it because of your family history.

Are you saying ur up 5 figures on sports gambling? If you have been spending 5000E a year for the last 2/3 years, being up at least 10000E is a very nice return so are you sure its only 10% of your money your spending?

sendic

Sounds to me that you are very astute with your money. The only advice i could give is to treat your market investments and gambling as you would your web business. Investing some of your salary in your web business is fine assuming you think you will see a return, but if that web business started to go south would you keep it alive using your salary or let it die? That may not be the best analogy but i presume you would let it die. You should treat the gambling and investments the same, don't go chasing any losses with your own salary money.

I doubt i need to say this to someone who has had experience of gamblers, but gambling can be nefarious in that you can keep an appearance that all is fine while things are actually terrible. Afaik addictive tendencies can run in families. Are you gambling larger amounts because your gambling fund has grown and you think you are getting the best of it, or are you gambling larger sums in order to get the same thrill as you used to?

If it becomes an issue with fiancee or mother maybe you could be completely transparent with them regards your finances?

There's nothing wrong with being concerned with your finances but if you find its taking over your life maybe you should try and step back and intentionally make some time where you do some more sports or volunteering. If its really bothering you, maybe talk to a counsellor.

air

The only problem I see here is that you're wasting your time in a job paying only 50k / year. If you've accumulated 500k in say 8 years (assuming you started all this when you finished college & are now near 30) then your time would be better spent focusing on growing your net worth further (at what is presumably an astronomical rate).

LegacyUser

Voluntary work to simply expand your horizons from always focussing on your finances is a great idea. In fact, since worries about finances (the opposite to yours!) are so common these days, how about getting involved with debt counselling or that kind of thing? You are obviously skilled with money management so could help people who are having trouble, and maybe it would also put things in perspective for you. (Obviously don't go counselling people who have been made redundant to gamble with their dwindling funds or anything )

LegacyUser

OP, in my opinion, you have an obsessive interest. I do not think that this is a bad thing at all.

In my situation, all I have to show for my obsessive interests are stacks of books on aeroplanes, a crap financial situation because of money spent on flying and aging musical equipment stacked up to the roof.

In your situation, all you have to show for it is a happy relationship with the lady and a very nice bank balance.

Why would you stop doing something you clearly enjoy and get a kick out of (and are clearly good at it) just because some people think it's unhealthy? Imagine if someone told Newton it was unhealthy to spend so much time on his own studying physics and chemistry, and that he should get out and meet more people or do some volunteer work!?

When you reach the stage that you know yourself it is affecting your life (wanting to spend time at home online instead of at your daughters graduation etc etc) then you know its time to stop, but in the mean time, keep on keepin on is my advise. Lucky git