State helicpoter to fly to GAA match

bonzos

Michael Ring TD went on a rant today in the dail about how an amry helicopter was used to bring a minister to a GAA match at the weekend,Mr Cowan in reply said that the minister was "only dropped off" on his way home from state business and therefor entitled to its use?any idea who this unnamed minister is???????

Seth Brundle

I'm reminded of Rody Molloys use of the word "entitled"!

Taxipete29

The fact that Biffo sees no problem with this speaks volumes about the state of the Government and the country. How much longer must we suffer these idiots.

Manic Moran

Well, if the helo driver didn't have anything better to do, what's the problem? They love flying.

NTM

Redsoxfan

M Coughlan* was at the Donegal v Antrim game on Sunday (to present the wee lads who played at half-time with medals-like they would know or give a fook who she is), didn't do us much good, and there was barely a murmur when it was announced.


* I have noted the use of 'he' in the OP and have chosen to post this info nonetheless

solice

bonzos wrote: »

Michael Ring TD went on a rant today in the dail about how an amry helicopter was used to bring a minister to a GAA match at the weekend,Mr Cowan in reply said that the minister was "only dropped off" on his way home from state business and therefor entitled to its use?any idea who this unnamed minister is???????

It was mentioned on the radio at lunch time that the match in question was the Connaught Final (not sure if it was hurling or football) but that the President was there and that she arrived at the match in a helicopter....:eek:

Nobody would comment if that was the person that Michael Ring was talking about!

Redsoxfan

solice wrote: »

It was mentioned on the radio at lunch time that the match in question was the Connaught Final (not sure if it was hurling or football) but that the President was there and that she arrived at the match in a helicopter....:eek:

Nobody would comment if that was the person that Michael Ring was talking about!

Twas on the radio this evening that it was in fact El Presidente Ms. McAleese and was indeed the 2008 Connacht Final.

bonzos

It does not say much for her if this is what she thinks is good use for tax payers money!why did she not get drivin down in her €130k state car its not as if she is over worked or anything. i have lost all respect for her!!!!!!!!!

bonzos

Manic Moran wrote: »

Well, if the helo driver didn't have anything better to do, what's the problem? They love flying.

NTM

Do you think they come in and work for free on sundays?you should be head hunted for a job in the HSE with that sort of outlook on tax payers money

Joey the lips

I wish this were in after hours to tell you what I really think of the subject but on a political level....

The helecoptor is there. Its ours, its maintained and its available. The only real cost to the tax payer is the fuel. You have to admit FG must be blue this morning

Its just daft.

I think that all ministers should travel with Irish Rail and Dublin bus/Bus Eireann. Then maybe we would all get a decent service.

Taxipete29

Taxipete29 wrote: »

How much longer must we suffer these idiots.

Yes.

Ring is clearly a bit of a fool.

Wrong person. Wrong year. That's pretty stupid going alright..

Manic Moran

bonzos wrote: »

Do you think they come in and work for free on sundays?you should be head hunted for a job in the HSE with that sort of outlook on tax payers money

The pilots are paid to fly, and being in the military, are paid to be available 24/7. They get paid the same if they're actually getting flight hours, or if they're sitting in the officer's mess having a pint. Which gets the State more value for money? At least flying to an unusual location can be a good training event for the pilot and crew.

NTM

SeaFields

whatever about the helicopter dropping off somebody 'important' at the match what i found absolutely infuriating was cowens reaction when questioned about it. Reeked of an arrogance only an out-of-touch, over his head, politician could come out with.

While the rest of us go down the drain...:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

solice

Cowen said in the Dail that he sees nothing wrong with it as the person was coming back from official state business. This implies that the match wasnt the official state business...but even if it was....Cowen said that he sees nothing wrong with it!!!!!

How much did the trip cost?

The fact that the pilot would be sitting in the mess having a pint is irrelevant, it is a complete misuse of the states assets. Particularly considering that the all the ministers and the president have state cars and two drivers available 24-7! So this would mean that the driver of the car was also being paid while the president was being flown around the country!

As a previous poster said, let them use public transport. I regularly use public transport, maybe we would get a better service if they were using it too!

thebaldsoprano

Manic Moran wrote: »

At least flying to an unusual location can be a good training event for the pilot and crew.

I suspect military exercises would be better training and would be a better use of taxpayers' money than keeping our politicians in cloud cuckoo land... Pardon the dreadful pun

Gaillimh Abu!!

solice wrote: »

Cowen said in the Dail that he sees nothing wrong with it as the person was coming back from official state business. This implies that the match wasnt the official state business...but even if it was....Cowen said that he sees nothing wrong with it!!!!!

How much did the trip cost?

The fact that the pilot would be sitting in the mess having a pint is irrelevant, it is a complete misuse of the states assets. Particularly considering that the all the ministers and the president have state cars and two drivers available 24-7! So this would mean that the driver of the car was also being paid while the president was being flown around the country!

As a previous poster said, let them use public transport. I regularly use public transport, maybe we would get a better service if they were using it too!

Michael Ring da tool, the least he could have done is have a wee bit of research done.... Not hard to do either, as everybody at the match knew it was Our President.

If our President cant use our Helicopters, it dosent say much for our nation... Do U want our President to use Public Transport? Have a bit more respect for our Nation... We aint a bunch of muppets...

Thats whats wrong with this country to many government bashers, and moaning. Nothing to do with the fact that to many silly people on inadequate wages thought that they were entitlet to huge morgages, loans and holidays because Mr & Mrs Jones next door were getting them.

People have to accept responsibility for their own situation and their own dept......

solice

Gaillimh Abu!! wrote: »

Michael Ring da tool, the least he could have done is have a wee bit of research done.... Not hard to do either, as everybody at the match knew it was Our President.

If our President cant use our Helicopters, it dosent say much for our nation... Do U want our President to use Public Transport? Have a bit more respect for our Nation... We aint a bunch of muppets...

Thats whats wrong with this country to many government bashers, and moaning. Nothing to do with the fact that to many silly people on inadequate wages thought that they were entitlet to huge morgages, loans and holidays because Mr & Mrs Jones next door were getting them.

People have to accept responsibility for their own situation and their own dept......

So you think its ok to use an air corps helicopter to go to a match when you have a state car and driver at your disposal 24/7. You think its ok that the state pay for both of them?

Maybe you should have respect for "our nation" as well and not call a sitting TD "a tool".

Gaillimh Abu!!

solice wrote: »

So you think its ok to use an air corps helicopter to go to a match when you have a state car and driver at your disposal 24/7. You think its ok that the state pay for both of them?

Maybe you should have respect for "our nation" as well and not call a sitting TD "a tool".

Yes I do think that its ok for our President to use the air corps helicopter, as she was on State business 2hours earlier that day in Dublin. Have you ever tried to go from Dublin to Castlebar in 2hours + with match traffic. If she did use her State car, you would probably be the one saying that she has broken the speed limits to get down there in 2hours....

How come some people always have to be moaning and bitching about something.........

As for the TD, If a TD cant do a small bit of research before he makes a statement in the Dail then it dosent say much. Also for a sitting TD who was at the match and didnt know it was the President and doesnt know our Presidents duties can only be call one thing "A T*ol"

Its taken as a given that the President presents the Provential and All Ireland trophies when available and when possible.

Seth Brundle

What was the State business that she was doing beforehand?

Gaillimh Abu!!

kbannon wrote: »

What was the State business that she was doing beforehand?

It was on the 6 O Clock news last night, some reporter investigated it and said she used the helicopter after an earlier official engagement in Dublin.

Its also on http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0617/politics.html

Seth Brundle

She was in Dublin and on her way home from State business she popped into Castlebar?
Has the Áras moved?

Manic Moran

thebaldsoprano wrote: »

I suspect military exercises would be better training and would be a better use of taxpayers' money than keeping our politicians in cloud cuckoo land... Pardon the dreadful pun

If the Army's ground troops were otherwise engage on non-airborne-related exercises, then the movement was a military exercise in itself. "Go here. Pick up passengers. Fly to this unusual location. Land in unknown conditions." It doesn't take great difficulty to do everything that would be required if passengers were infantry as opposed to a politician.

NTM

Gaillimh Abu!!

kbannon wrote: »

She was in Dublin and on her way home from State business she popped into Castlebar?
Has the Áras moved?

Who said she was on her way home after Dublin? ur talking s"ite.

I quote RTE website "She was attending the final in an official capacity, after an earlier engagement in Dublin".

That means she was at a official engagement in Dublin earlier that day and then had another official engagement in Castlebar 2hours later!!! Therefore she was required to be in two different ends of the country within 2hours.
(I will spell it out 4ya!!!).


The woman was doing her job? end of story.

P. Breathnach

solice wrote: »

... Maybe you should have respect for "our nation" as well and not call a sitting TD "a tool".

Maybe our sitting TDs should not act like tools. Michael Ring's behaviour in the house is not always decorous.

solice

Gaillimh Abu!! wrote: »

Who said she was on her way home after Dublin? ur talking s"ite.

I quote RTE website "She was attending the final in an official capacity, after an earlier engagement in Dublin".

That means she was at a official engagement in Dublin earlier that day and then had another official engagement in Castlebar 2hours later!!! Therefore she was required to be in two different ends of the country within 2hours.
(I will spell it out 4ya!!!).


The woman was doing her job? end of story.

No need for bad language, not very becoming or respectful of you!

The Taoiseach inferred in the dail that the person was travelling home after official state business. Thats the point here! Going to the match may have been official state business, then all is well with the world.

BUT

The taoiseach suggested that if a minister was on his/her way home from official state business and wanted to be dropped off somewhere on the way then that is ok! No its not ok, not if its for personal business and its definitely not ok if the helicopter has to wait around to pick you up after personal business.

If the president was going to the match in her position as president, then that is fine, if it was a personal trip its not, but our taoiseach thinks it is.

solice

solice wrote: »

As a previous poster said, let them use public transport. I regularly use public transport, maybe we would get a better service if they were using it too!

Maybe she should have thumbed! After all, she may be President, but she still has her thumb, doesn't she? It was good enough for me going to school, it should be good enough for our President. They don't cut off their thumbs on taking office, do they? Harrumph!

The story here is Michael Ring making a fool of himself, not the cheapest form of transport the President of this country can avail of, or whether Cowen's response to foolishness was good or bad. Ring made a gaffe, not crime of the century, but he should be told to research his stuff before making wild accusations.

OS119

Manic Moran wrote: »

If the Army's ground troops were otherwise engage on non-airborne-related exercises, then the movement was a military exercise in itself. "Go here. Pick up passengers. Fly to this unusual location. Land in unknown conditions." It doesn't take great difficulty to do everything that would be required if passengers were infantry as opposed to a politician.

NTM

thats an entirely rational argument, if, as you say, there were no miliary exercices that required helicopter support going on at the time.

however:

a) As we both know, the IAC only has 6 troop carrying helicopters (and they are brand new, and offer a capability that the IAC has never previously had).

b) The Army has 8,700 regular soldiers who've precious little experience with helicopters, and 4,500 active reservists who've no experience with helicopters.

c) The Irish army is currently operating in Chad at Battalion level with no IAC support precisely because the IAC hasn't got to a training level where its a deployable force.

it is inconceivable, given that situation, that the IAC can waste a single flying hour on anything that doesn't directly contribute to the increased readiness of the helicopter force - sure 'flying to a new location and dropping somebody off' could count as training, but not nearly as much as 'flying to a new location, picking up a mortar team under operational, war-time conditions, doing nap-of-the-earth flying, and exercising with them in a shoot 'n scoot range practice and then conducting off-base refueling operations in field conditions before going home for tea and medals'.

the DOD, with the best part of 12,000 troops in need of training, can scarcely say that there were none available for the helicopter to exerise with...

nuac

President does a good job without the egotism of Mary Bourke. I see no problem about her use of the helicopter. Ml Ring should find something else to complain about.

bonzos

Manic Moran wrote: »

The pilots are paid to fly, and being in the military, are paid to be available 24/7. They get paid the same if they're actually getting flight hours, or if they're sitting in the officer's mess having a pint. Which gets the State more value for money? At least flying to an unusual location can be a good training event for the pilot and crew.

NTM

value for money?when mr cullan took his little trip during which the door fell off it was estimated that the cost to the state was approx €8k even though a private helicopter firm could have done the trip for under €4k.next time your in A&E waiting in pain for a bed for 6hrs because of cutbacks or you are wondering how your kids are getting on in a class with 35+ other childern will you still have the opion that this is total waste of taxpayers money is "value for money"

Manic Moran

OS119 wrote: »

b) The Army has 8,700 regular soldiers who've precious little experience with helicopters, and 4,500 active reservists who've no experience with helicopters.

I would submit that that is not the fault of the politicians. Had any battalion or brigade commander requested the use of the helicopters and been denied in order to make this VIP mission happen?

c) The Irish army is currently operating in Chad at Battalion level with no IAC support precisely because the IAC hasn't got to a training level where its a deployable force.

I thought it was because the government was too cheap to buy enough helicopters to make a deployment feasible and still meet domestic requirements. That, and they were too afraid that they might lose one.

NTM

jmayo

solice wrote: »

It was mentioned on the radio at lunch time that the match in question was the Connaught Final (not sure if it was hurling or football) but that the President was there and that she arrived at the match in a helicopter....:eek:

Nobody would comment if that was the person that Michael Ring was talking about!

Ehhh we don't have a Connaught hurling championship, since Roscommon bate the heads off a few Galway lads, although after seeing one Galway ff cheerleading poster claptrapping on here I think it should be held annually

bonzos wrote: »

It does not say much for her if this is what she thinks is good use for tax payers money!why did she not get drivin down in her €130k state car its not as if she is over worked or anything. i have lost all respect for her!!!!!!!!!

Perhaps the car was being used to ferry her daughter around Dublin :rolleyes:

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes.

Ring is clearly a bit of a fool.

Wrong person. Wrong year. That's pretty stupid going alright..

If he is a fool what is your good buddy John "lotto" O'Donghue
Afterall it was Ring and Kenny that wound him up so much on his first day in his new little job that he almost had a heartattack

Manic Moran wrote: »

The pilots are paid to fly, and being in the military, are paid to be available 24/7. They get paid the same if they're actually getting flight hours, or if they're sitting in the officer's mess having a pint. Which gets the State more value for money? At least flying to an unusual location can be a good training event for the pilot and crew.

NTM

Unusual location me ar**.
It's Castlebar not effing Bagdad, although on a bad night outside Supermacs it might resemble Basra :rolleyes:

Gaillimh Abu!! wrote: »

...

If our President cant use our Helicopters, it dosent say much for our nation... Do U want our President to use Public Transport? Have a bit more respect for our Nation... We aint a bunch of muppets...

Thats whats wrong with this country to many government bashers, and moaning. Nothing to do with the fact that to many silly people on inadequate wages thought that they were entitlet to huge morgages, loans and holidays because Mr & Mrs Jones next door were getting them.

People have to accept responsibility for their own situation and their own dept......

Well said did you read that excuse list from the ff party HQ pamplet ?
Afterall the reasons the banks are failing is becasue all the FTBs went out and got 100% mortgages, absolutely nothing to do with lending billions to developers and the authorities not regulating their activities :rolleyes:
And it is all the fault of these mortgage holders that we had people playing poker with billions in the construction merry go round :rolleyes:

Seen as you are all for people accepting responsibility, why doesn't biffo, bertie and the boys accept a bit or is responsibility only something concerning the little people ?


BTW we do look like a great big bunch of muppets, afterall we managed to blow the best economy in Europe between 2001 and 2008.
What to we have to show for it, too many shoebox apartments and half emtpy retail parks.

Manic Moran wrote: »

If the Army's ground troops were otherwise engage on non-airborne-related exercises, then the movement was a military exercise in itself. "Go here. Pick up passengers. Fly to this unusual location. Land in unknown conditions." It doesn't take great difficulty to do everything that would be required if passengers were infantry as opposed to a politician.

NTM

FFS give over about unusual locations and unknown conditions :mad:
Military excercise are you having a laugh, did they rpetend they were playing black hawk down or something ?
Have you ever been to Castlebar ?

PS you can't try and make the president air sick like you would a few privates so it is not the same

dennistuam

el prez is a joke she give a copy of her autobiografy to pope benny
he probably chucked it in the bin
she did nt give the unoffical warts and all one that was printed
about making petrol bombs and collecting rubber dickies (RUBBER bULLETS)

Manic Moran

jmayo wrote: »

FFS give over about unusual locations and unknown conditions :mad:

You ever try flying to a new location? Even with GPS, it's rather an interesting exercise trying to figure out just where you are, what the best approach routes are, and what effects the terrain will have on the wind and your flight path.

NTM

jmayo

Manic Moran wrote: »

You ever try flying to a new location? Even with GPS, it's rather an interesting exercise trying to figure out just where you are, what the best approach routes are, and what effects the terrain will have on the wind and your flight path.

NTM

Yes I have and without a GPS. It is more difficult in an aeroplane because your approach options are limited and it is easier in a heli in that you can at least hover to get your bearings.
Also it is a two crew operation so one can navigate and the other can aviate.

BTW they were probably landing on a football pitch in a pretty flat surburban setting beside a smallish stadium, which doesn't have high stands. No big buildings, no mountains etc ...
Only thing to be aware of are power lines and a military pilot should be able to handle it in his sleep.
BTW the stadium would be pretty visible in the grans scheme of the town, we are not talking greater LA here :rolleyes:

solice

And I dont think the president should be a passenger in a training manoeuvre...I would assume that whoever is flying the president is fully qualified to fly!

OS119

Manic Moran wrote: »

I would submit that that is not the fault of the politicians. Had any battalion or brigade commander requested the use of the helicopters and been denied in order to make this VIP mission happen?

I thought it was because the government was too cheap to buy enough helicopters to make a deployment feasible and still meet domestic requirements. That, and they were too afraid that they might lose one.

NTM

i would suggest that given the training and readiness state of the Irish Army and Air Corps, any commander not using those assets for every second that they are available should be shot!

the people responsible for not kicking the Irish Army and AC to readiness are the COS and the Defence Minster, if Battalion and Brigade CO's aren't grabbing every training opportunity that exists then its because the COS and DM either aren't putting the right people in the job, or perhaps worse, they are putting the 'right' people in the job...

i'd also be interested to know who gets tasking priority - mortar section or fat minster wanting to open an off licence?

your point about the Govt refusing to stump up for a viable, deployable force while wanting something to showboat with is of course true, but it doesn't stop the Army doing the best it can with what's available.