Getting ahead of the pack! Getting most of your training contract

Kingkong

I would like to start a new thread devoted to how to get the most out of your training contract.

As many of us have secured employment until our accounting contact finishes we have the an opportunity to work out what to do after contract and how to get there.

The fact still remain no matter if its a small practice or big 4 firm, it is your training contract and your responsible for getting the most out of it.

Recent intakes into the industry were at record levels and come 2 years down the road a lot of us will be hunting for same few jobs. It will be no longer as easy as saying I work in Big4 give me the Job!

So here lies the problem, what can we do about it.

Qualified accountants probably have the benefit of hind sight of what they would have done different.

What ways can we ensure we come out ahead of the pack?

aoibhebree

As someone in the same position, I'm looking forward to seeing some of these replies ...

tallpaul04

I'm looking 4ward to seeing the replies aswell. good to see a positive post for a change. well done KingKong

Would qualified accountants recommend some1 moving breaking there training contract, by moving out of a big 4 into a smaller firm (if it was possible in todays climate) to get that "all round" experience?

ManwitaPlan

Id be very interested on hearing about experiences in different area's of audit.

I know people talk about being pigeonholed in Big4 but is it ever possible to move between different areas of Audit and is it advisable?

Kingkong

I work in tax myself and did a month in audit recently. Glad I did it and shows there is some scope for trying out other areas.

I think you really have to put your case forward though and follow it up.

The CCAinsider

Been there, done that. Started big 4 went to a small practice – disaster …but a good learning (how not to do it) experience. Spent some time abroad, working with big 4, would strongly recommend you consider it. If I was in your position, I would start by insisting on as many internal transfers as possible within departments and internationally. It will round your experience wonderfully. You might find something that you really want to specialise in. Your time in the big 4 is for learning, don’t just 9-5 it, actively question and query. “Why are we doing this, why are we not doing it another way.” Treat audit as an extended case study on a business model – not a ticking and bashing exercise. Impress your clients – they could be your employers next year.

An 18 month international secondment will have you returning to an Ireland that is back in growth phase, with a killer CV, and possibly a good tan.

Remember, if your are terminated at the end of your contract you don’t get redundancy. If they keep you on for a while after the end of your contract they will have to pay you redundancy back dated to the start of your training contract. The fact that people are not having their training contracts extended does not mean that there are no jobs.

The best jobs are for T specialists. A broad experience (the bar on the T) with a deep knowledge of one topic (or even 2 or 3 topics). The person with UK tax knowledge can charge twice as much as somebody with just ROI. A US experienced person can charge 3 times as much.

Good luck.

Kingkong

I would be interested in knowing more how you managed to get international experience in tax. I have always been led to believe it a rare thing to get experience in another country in this area.

The CCAinsider

See http://www.accaglobal.com/members/qualifications_partners/professional/international_cert_tax and the other way is to get a secondment to another country and do local taxation exams. You would be surprised at how similar tax systems can be in many countries. Once you have the structure learning the local rules is easy.

Running Bing

How do you go about getting a secondment?

Do you make a request or are they just advertised within the firm every now and then? Also I imagine you cant do a secondment until you finish all your exams?

PB1982

The CCAinsider wrote: »

Been there, done that. Started big 4 went to a small practice – disaster …but a good learning (how not to do it) experience. Spent some time abroad, working with big 4, would strongly recommend you consider it. If I was in your position, I would start by insisting on as many internal transfers as possible within departments and internationally. It will round your experience wonderfully. You might find something that you really want to specialise in. Your time in the big 4 is for learning, don’t just 9-5 it, actively question and query. “Why are we doing this, why are we not doing it another way.” Treat audit as an extended case study on a business model – not a ticking and bashing exercise. Impress your clients – they could be your employers next year.

An 18 month international secondment will have you returning to an Ireland that is back in growth phase, with a killer CV, and possibly a good tan.

Remember, if your are terminated at the end of your contract you don’t get redundancy. If they keep you on for a while after the end of your contract they will have to pay you redundancy back dated to the start of your training contract. The fact that people are not having their training contracts extended does not mean that there are no jobs.

The best jobs are for T specialists. A broad experience (the bar on the T) with a deep knowledge of one topic (or even 2 or 3 topics). The person with UK tax knowledge can charge twice as much as somebody with just ROI. A US experienced person can charge 3 times as much.

Good luck.

If a training contract finished in March 2010 but you were kept on and only now let go are you entitled to redundancy?

Thank you in advance.

viconia

Running Bing wrote: »

How do you go about getting a secondment?

Do you make a request or are they just advertised within the firm every now and then? Also I imagine you cant do a secondment until you finish all your exams?

A key issue that people forget around secondment is that your performance over the time youv'e been in the firm must be good. Only really good people get to go on secondment. As one of the partners in my firm said, "I can't just say, Hey, London, take this trainee!, They work below average but they're still good!". Your Partner and Manager need to be able to vouch for your work and as a result you need to perform in your current contract to be able to be selected to go abroad.

EDudder

I start my training contract soon and a secondment to another location is something I know i'd be interested in.

What i want to know is.....how could a secondment to another country be facilitated during a training contract when the trainee will not have finished the Tax exams part of their qualification in the first country? That might be worded quite confusingly. But for example, if in a years time i've finished my CAP1 that i've done in ROI and starting my CAP2, how would my firm facilitate a secondment to say UK or NI? Or is that not likely at all.

I'd love to do this. I suppose the reason i could give for the request would be to get knowledge of the different tax systems (although i'm in audit) as i genuinely think that could be helpful in my future career. Is there anyway this could work?

defiantshrimp

EDudder wrote: »

I start my training contract soon and a secondment to another location is something I know i'd be interested in.

What i want to know is.....how could a secondment to another country be facilitated during a training contract when the trainee will not have finished the Tax exams part of their qualification in the first country? That might be worded quite confusingly. But for example, if in a years time i've finished my CAP1 that i've done in ROI and starting my CAP2, how would my firm facilitate a secondment to say UK or NI? Or is that not likely at all.

I'd love to do this. I suppose the reason i could give for the request would be to get knowledge of the different tax systems (although i'm in audit) as i genuinely think that could be helpful in my future career. Is there anyway this could work?

They will not facilitate one until you are qualified and out of contract. Some firms offer short term "busy season" secondments to exam qualified staff. But not to someone sitting their CAP2s.

Jim2007

EDudder wrote: »

I start my training contract soon and a secondment to another location is something I know i'd be interested in.

What i want to know is.....how could a secondment to another country be facilitated during a training contract when the trainee will not have finished the Tax exams part of their qualification in the first country? That might be worded quite confusingly. But for example, if in a years time i've finished my CAP1 that i've done in ROI and starting my CAP2, how would my firm facilitate a secondment to say UK or NI? Or is that not likely at all.

I'd love to do this. I suppose the reason i could give for the request would be to get knowledge of the different tax systems (although i'm in audit) as i genuinely think that could be helpful in my future career. Is there anyway this could work?

Put some time into learning a foreign language, if you have not already done so. It will give you the edge over most other candidates.

The fact is that most Irish/UK/USA accountants have very poor language skills and no matter who well they think they can get by with English, the reality is that if you got to work with someone very day, they need to speak your language. Here in Switzerland there are actually a fair few jobs available for qualified accountants who can show basic skills on one of the local languages....

Good luck with that,

Jim.

EDudder

defiantshrimp wrote: »

They will not facilitate one until you are qualified and out of contract. Some firms offer short term "busy season" secondments to exam qualified staff. But not to someone sitting their CAP2s.

Thats what I thought the answer might be

So there'd be no chance of moving from a galway office to a belfast office for any amount of time during your training contract? I would have loved something like that.

Think I actually might start out on the learning a language thing for the future. But am i right in thinking that this would only benefit me after qualifying aswell?