Car Tax/Petrol - whats going on?

Dannyboy83

My car tax this year seems to have increased by something like 40% since a year or two ago. Its €164 per 3 months now.
And petrol is up to €1.20 per litre in Cork.

My girlfriend relies on the bus as I'm at work all day Mon to Friday, but the amount of buses has been halved.

I moved out to this town from the city which has reduced my time in the car by about 40 hours per month, so now I only use the car 12 hours per month so I'm fairly annoyed at paying €55 per month for that privilege.

Who is behind all these changes?
Is this Green party ideas at work?
They seem to have the whole thing assways.

The last I heard, the Russian economy was on the verge of collapse due to the collapse in Oil Prices, but I'm being raped for owning a car in Ireland not to mind going to the pumps, even though there is no alternative.

seamus

As far as I can tell, your motor tax has increase by €12/3 months in the past 2 years. That's about 8%, not 40. It was €152/quarter in 2007. Unless you moved cars from a smallish engine to a 1.9 in the last two years, which would account for a big hike in tax rates.

Petrol prices go up and down. They were down for a while but now they're back up.

LostinBlanch

I'm guessing that OPEC cut back on oil production in order to keep prices high.

As for car tax - like all others it's only going one way - Up!

Victor

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Who is behind all these changes?

Irish people. You want those roads, schools and hospitals, don't you?

Oh, what bus route has been cut 50%?

Taxipete29

I remember reading the price has alot to do with the value of the dollar as this is how oil is priced. Someone correct me if I am wrong please

halkar

Taxipete29 wrote: »

I remember reading the price has alot to do with the value of the dollar as this is how oil is priced. Someone correct me if I am wrong please

I noticed this too. Checking BBC markets from time to time, when euro goes up over dollar so does petrol. I think almost all of ME exporters have their currencies pegged to dollars.

Dazzler88

why is Petrol soaring again???does any1 knw how much retailers make on fuel???i called a distributor today and posed as a retailer asking how much it was a litre of petrol.They said it would said it would cost me 94.37c,yet my local garage is currently charging 119.9c..i dont know much bout this industry..but surely every retailer couldnt be makin 25c a litre,i appreciate VAT,Overheads and whatever but thats still leaves a nice margin:P:P:cool::P

oscarBravo

Dazzler88 wrote: »

i called a distributor today and posed as a retailer asking how much it was a litre of petrol.They said it would said it would cost me 94.37c...

Presumably that's an ex-VAT price.

...yet my local garage is currently charging 119.9c.

That's VAT inclusive. The ex-VAT price per litre, retail, is 98.7c, giving a 4.3c margin before overheads.

Dazzler88

correct Oscarbravo the price i quoted was ex VAT..how do you come to the figure of 3/4c a litre???:)

oscarBravo

You can't count the VAT you charge as margin - it gets paid to the government. The margin is calculated as the difference between the ex-VAT price paid to the wholesaler, and the ex-VAT price charged to the customer.

Dazzler88

ah thankls i see..and do you then pay VAT as a retailer on the profit you make??:D:pac:

Dannyboy83

Dazzler88 wrote: »

why is Petrol soaring again???

I saw some program on the TV yesterday morning doing my cycling, they were saying that while the Germans are heavy into investing in Gold, the Americans don't like to invest in Gold but they are scared to hang onto their US dollars as they don't believe they are safe anymore with the ever expanding US debt and incoming socialist system under Obama, therefore they are all investing in oil.

This pushed up the price of oil, from $33 per barrell, to $77 per barrell, despite a massive decline in demand, even in China.

The fact that the price jumped therefore means even more people are going to invest and its going to snowball even more.
They were saying that these prices are here to stay indefinitely and in 2 years we will be looking at something like €1.50 per litre.

When we move out of the economic depression and demand increases, then we will be truely screwed.
There were a number of other minor issues, such as the political situation in Iran, but the major one was Oil speculators.

Apparently 65% of every litre of Petrol is pure tax by the Irish government anyway. Its no wonder nobody can afford to go on holidays this year.
We're being fraped from every angle by FF.

I know the ordinary guy is feeling it, because 3 people in my office have moved to this town in the last 8 weeks as they can't afford the commute anymore.

oscarBravo

Dazzler88 wrote: »

ah thankls i see..and do you then pay VAT as a retailer on the profit you make??:D:pac:

Nope. Let me explain:

The retailer buys petrol from the wholesaler at a price of 94.4 + VAT. The VAT has to be paid to the wholesaler, so the retailer pays 114.7 per litre.

The retailer then sells the petrol to the customer at a price of 98.7 + VAT, which is 119.9 per litre.

For that litre of petrol, the retailer paid 10.3c in VAT and charged 11.2c in VAT. That means that he owes the government 0.9c, which gets paid every two months.

Tax on profits is corporation tax. If there were no overheads, the profit on the litre of petrol is the difference between the ex-VAT prices, which is 4.3c. Corporation tax is 12.5%, which would be 0.54c on that litre of petrol.

Of course, there are many other overheads, which is why many petrol stations use petrol sales mainly as a way to attract business to the more profitable convenience stores they also run.

Liam Byrne

Dazzler88 wrote: »

and do you then pay VAT as a retailer on the profit you make??:D:pac:

Without going into the maths - technically, yes (assuming there were no overheads, etc).

That's kinda the point of the name, actually; "Value-Added", means the difference in price, so it's "Tax on the amount of value [price] added".

EDIT: To expand OscarBravo's post

The profit on the litre of petrol is the difference between the ex-VAT prices, which is 4.3c; 21.5% of that is your 0.9c

So if there were no other overheads that could be offset against VAT, you would be paying VAT of 0.9c on your "profit" of 5.2c, leaving you with the 4.3c

And if you'd no wages, rent, electricity, etc, you'd then be paying the 12.5% Corporation Tax on that 4.3c further down the line.....

But it's highlighted another VAT issue - the 10c tax on petrol is at source (already in the 94.4c, if I'm correct), so the calculation for the VAT means that you're taxed on the tax; similar to your VAT on a car being VAT not on the net price, but the "after-adding-VRT" price! :mad:

Dannyboy83

Victor wrote: »

Irish people. You want those roads, schools and hospitals, don't you?

Oh, what bus route has been cut 50%?

I'd love to give you a good counter answer, but I can't be bothered.

There is no hospital here, its in the city.
I think the local school is a convent or something but I wouldn't know, I have no kids.
The road here is a death trap, one tractor on the road and your travel time doubles, no dual carraigeways. Took me 120mins to go Cork to Dublin last Thursday (270ish km), took me 90mins last Saturday to go West Cork to East Cork (45ish km).
Roads in East Cork are pretty good, just West Cork is a joke really.

turgon

oscarBravo wrote: »

Of course, there are many other overheads, which is why many petrol stations use petrol sales mainly as a way to attract business to the more profitable convenience stores they also run.

Case in point: Tesco who make little or no profit on petrol sales, instead hoping the profit will be made up on the shopping in the supermarket next door.

Or Supervalue chains who offer you petrol discounts if you spend a certain amount of money: clearly with these discounts they are making nothing on the actual petrol.

oscarBravo

Liam Byrne wrote: »

The profit on the litre of petrol is the difference between the ex-VAT prices, which is 4.3c; 21.5% of that is your 0.9c

Just to be awkward: 0.9c is 21.5% of 5.2c, which is the difference between the VAT-inclusive prices.

oscarBravo

turgon wrote: »

Case in point: Tesco who make little or no profit on petrol sales, instead hoping the profit will be made up on the shopping in the supermarket next door.

I don't doubt that their margin is small, but Tesco are very aggressive when negotiating with suppliers, so you can be sure they're paying less than the wholesale price quoted earlier.

Liam Byrne

oscarBravo wrote: »

Just to be awkward: 0.9c is 21.5% of 5.2c, which is the difference between the VAT-inclusive prices.

Respectfully beg to differ on that.....

4.3c x 0.215 = 0.92c

Or, to put it another way, 5.2c = 121.5% of the 4.3c

21.5% of 5.2c would be 1.118c

oscarBravo

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Respectfully beg to differ on that.....

4.3c x 0.215 = 0.92c

Or, to put it another way, 5.2c = 121.5% of the 4.3c

21.5% of 5.2c would be 1.118c

Yeah, that's what I meant...

/wanders off whistling innocently...



Stupid VAT. I always manage to confuse myself and others with the forward-and-backward calculations.

Liam Byrne

oscarBravo wrote: »

Stupid VAT. I always manage to confuse myself and others with the forward-and-backward calculations.

Come do my VAT returns - I could save myself 21.5% of that 5.2c every time

Dazzler88

which is why many petrol stations use petrol sales mainly as a way to attract business to the more profitable convenience stores they also run.[/quote]

Thanks for your advice,sorry if i sound a bit dim just dont know much about the industry..the reason i was wondering is i was recently thinking of renting a local Petrol station,it doesnt have a shop attached..would you have any advice for me???:):)