Excessively High Gas Bills, Please Advise as to Possible Problem???

blobert

Hello,

There seems to be a fairly serious problem with the gas in rental apartment we are living in, the bills are about 4 times higher than in our previous place.

The Gas is used for central heating, heating hot water in a tank for showers and for 2 rings on the hob, oven is electric.

The previous bill was very high (€250+)but our latest one seems ridiculously high for the amount of gas we are using.

For the past 2 months the only use of the gas is for heating hot water for 40 mins in the morning and 40 mins in the evening. I have the boiler set to the lowest level that will heat the water to a decent temperature (certainly not boiling). Our bill said we used 257 m3, or 2920kWh, and was for €181.80

To me, for a small amount of water heating this seems incredibly high.

The place was built in 1991/1992, the boiler is a Poterton Netaheat.

We had Bord Gais come out to service it the other day, the guy could not access the boiler as there is a plaster board bit over it preventing access. This means the boiler has never been serviced. The guy from Bord Gais said that he didn't think servicing it would make a huge issue to gas consumption, he didn't really have any other ideas as to what was the problem and so didn't do anything.

As far as I can tell the gas pressure seems very high, when we have the gas hob on the flames are about 3 inches high and the gas comes out with huge force. Do you think this could be the problem, ie the flow of gas seems too strong.

I had a look at the meter in the basement of the apartment complex and when even the hobs are on the numbers seem to move very quickly. There seems to be no way to adjust the flow, there is a yellow handle that seems to control the flow on/off beside the meter, I moved this from fully on to closer to off and the gas flow seems much more normal, assuming this is reasonably safe to do? Will check the usage over the next week or so and see if this makes any difference. Is there another way to regulate the gas flow?

The other thing to do is to bang away the plasterboard and get the thing serviced, though as I said Mr Bord Gais did not think this would make a huge difference.

Would really appreciate any help with this. We really like the apartment and where it is but the bills are crazily high (previously posted about the high electrity bill, it was mostly as a result of an incredibly inefficient 18 year old fridge freezer. We can't afford to live here unless we can sort out these high bills.

The landlord is a nice old man, but incredibly reluctant to spend money, hence I'd say the apartment has had practically nothing done to it since new.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance

blobert

Even if someone could confirm that this seems too high, I'd appreciate it.

Reducing the flow of gas is a very dangerous pastime, in 22 years as a gas fitter(mostly as a emergency engineer) you are the first person i have come across who has partial interrupted the gas flow to try and sort a problem:eek:, with out putting on a u gauge you are not in a position to know if the gas cock position is right and they only have two positions on or off, so turn the main cock to the off position till you get it sorted, you can call in Bord Gais on a emergency as you feel the gas appliances are over pressurized which could be the gas regulator on the meter or get a RGII gas installer to check the working pressure at the boiler, so you will need to get the access sorted out, the working pressure test will confirm the correct working pressure to the boiler, also ask for the boiler to be gas rated to see if it matches the manufactures instructions, the two tests should be done on the service. Even if the boiler is over gassed this will not really effect your bill as all you are doing is using your gas quickly allowing the cylinder to achieve temperature quicker, if you don't have room stats and a cylinder stat fitted then you should get them fitted, if you do turn them down to save money, good luck, Gary.

Pete67

Good advice, worth noting too that if the gas pressure is very high then the boiler may be wasting a lot of energy. The heat exchanger has a limited capacity to absorb heat from the combustion process which is based on its surface area and water flowrate through it. If the burner is producing significantly more heat than this then a lot of it will be going out through the flue.

blobert

Hello Again, Just as an update Bord Gais serviced the boiler and said it seemed fine (for its age) and that there did not seem to be anything major wrong.

Not sure of where to go from here, possibly get them out to inspect the meter, the guy servicing the boiler said he couldn't look at this.

The bills suggest there must be something wrong but I'm finding it very difficult to find what it is.

Hagar

Are you 100% sure that your pipework is independent from the neighbouring apartments? It is not beyond belief that you might be heating water for next door too.

delly

Hagar wrote: »

Are you 100% sure that your pipework is independent from the neighbouring apartments? It is not beyond belief that you might be heating water for next door too.

I was also thinking that, or the possibility that you might be heating the communal areas. Is there any radiators in the hallways?

blobert

Just to report back on this.

I monitored how much gas having the two hobs uses. Assuming that the 3 figures in red on the meter refer to the breakdown of 1 m3 of gas, I would have to have both hobs on for 100 mins to use 1m3 of gas. Now I'd say we use the hobs for 50 mins at best per day, and I'm sure it's way less than this but for the sake of working it out this is easiest. So we would use 1m3 of gas every 2 days or 30m3 over 2 months.

Next I measured how much gas the boiler uses being on for 30 mins in the morning and 30 mins in the evening just heating water for showers. This uses 0.7m3 per day, ie 42m3 every 2 months. Now one thing to factor in here is that its probably a lot easier to heat water recently as its quite warm already but nonetheless I'll go with the figures I just measured.

So, my use of the hobs and water heating means my bimonthly bill should be for 73m3.

At previous rates of about 62c per m3 of gas that means the gas should cost 45.26.
Add on standing charge for 60 days of 8.52, that's €53.78, plus VAT is 61.04

At the newer rate of 54.6c per m3 that should be 39.93 + 8.52 = 48.45 + VAT is 54.99

So that's roughly what my most recent bill should have been for the ammount of gas we have been using.

The actual bill was for €181.80 saying a total of 257m3 of gas had been used.
Now this was based on an estimate and they over estimated by about 90m3 but this still implies we used 167m3 of gas when it should only have been about 70m3.

How can this be happening?

What should I do next?

Thanks

trad

The Potterton Netaheat has a SAP efficiency of between 65% and 68% depending on the model fitted. The property is 91/92 era. If you moved from a newer better insulated apartment you will use more energy to produce the same levels of heat.

What is the BER rating of the Apartment? If you rented after Jan 1, 2009 it must by law have a BER.

blobert

Thanks for the reply. The previous place was much older (small old house with single glazed windows) and far worse in terms of insulation, we had to have the heating on loads and it was still about 4 times cheaper than here (we have barely used central heating here).

Moved in at the end of Jan 09, no BER cert, I doubt the Landlord knows what one is, he is very relaxed in terms of this stuff, as I mentioned earlier, the boiler had never been serviced.

Any further advice would be much appreciated.

slimjimmc

blobert wrote: »

I had a look at the meter in the basement of the apartment complex and when even the hobs are on the numbers seem to move very quickly.

What happens when all appliances are switched off; does the meter still change?

Do a comparison over a longer period when the gas is not used. Turn off all gas appliances in the evening and take a meter reading. Take another reading the next morning just before turning the appliances back on. The evening and morning readings should be the same if no gas has been used.

Just in case your neighbours/landlord share the same meter try to do this test over a full 24hrs to cover most eventualities. Eat sandwiches or oven-ready food and go naturale for 1 day .

MiniGolf

Call a Registered Gas Installer and ask them to come and test your gas pipe-work, re-commision the boiler, do a gas rating on the boiler and check your hob.
If you happen to be going out for a full day or better still a whole weekend take a note of the reading when you go out and check again when you come back. Obviously make sure the timer for the boiler is off! This will give you an idea if any other use is going on from your meter!!;)

trad

When you are finished with the Gas installers report your landlord to the Building Control Officer of your Local Authority for failing to have a BER Cert.

This is the idea of BER Certs in that it will give you an indication of the energy consumption of the dwelling. As a rule of themb the higher the energy rating the lower the energy consumption.