Road Through Heart of Kilkenny

JupiterKid

Does anyone know what ever happened to the hugely destructive plans to route a new "inner relief road" right through the northern edge of the city centre at St. Canice's Cathederal and new bridge over the River Nore?

These plans whipped up a huge furore when announced but are they still going ahead? For the histroic heart of Kilkenny's sake, I hope not...

fabbydabby

The debate is still being hotly contested by the 1.73% of the Kilkenny population who actually care, but the reality is that the NRA don't even have enough money to comfortably conclude their exsisting projects, let alone undertake any supplimentary ones, so I suspect it is a topic that prospective councellors will be spouting about for the 2014 and maybe even 2019 local elections, assuming the country hasn't resolved into a feral society of tribesmen by then.

catbear

Plus Diagio suspended their super brewery site near Dublin so Kilkenny may still be a viable operation for the foreseeable future.

ECOLOGICAL

another example of project which cost fortune in environmental impact surveys and now dust will settle on plans indefinitely probably never be built

jiggajt

I have been keeping a very close eye on this. The decision is still with an bord pleanala:

http://www.pleanala.ie/casenum/HA0014.htm

http://www.pleanala.ie/casenum/KA0011.htm

A decision date of april was originally quoted but then put back, perhaps because of the elections? The heritage council are completely against the construction of the road and lodged a complaint and a substantial report with an bord pleanala but this still might not be enough to stop it. I have

fabbydabby wrote: »

the NRA don't even have enough money to comfortably conclude their exsisting projects

Fabbydabby, the proposed road would be a Public private partnership with most of the funds coming from the CityMart development so there is still a real chance of this road going ahead.

I have digital copies of almost every available document, report, EIS etc if anyone would like them.

fabbydabby

Point taken.

But you think they're still going ahead with Citimart? I would doubt it, somehow.

jiggajt

Its hard to know. If citymart developments have managed to maintain they're investors and planning permission was granted second time around they would be in a good position to go ahead with the project and get a building contractor for a lot less than last year.
I am currently carrying out some work for one of the largest developments in the history of the state in dublin city centre and they have contractors falling over themselves undercutting each other for the cost of construction.
In my opinion, if the road gets the go ahead then the citymart will also get the go ahead and very soon, half of the city will be a building site.

catbear

I was at the oral hearing when a rep from citimart read a brief statement basically saying that it would honour any decision arrived at. They certainly weren't fighting for it. I got the impression that they're going to sit out the slump. This is very much the councils baby.
If public works are needs as a stimulus then completing the ring road would be far better and popular choice.
I wonder Jigget if the undercutting by contractors is why the road beside the Barracks finally got going.

ChristIsMurph

The money is 100% not there to undertake the project. In fact the council can do extremely little over the next while as the finances are in deep red. The project is dormant.

zootroid

JupiterKid wrote: »

Does anyone know what ever happened to the hugely destructive plans to route a new "inner relief road" right through the northern edge of the city centre at St. Canice's Cathederal and new bridge over the River Nore?

These plans whipped up a huge furore when announced but are they still going ahead? For the histroic heart of Kilkenny's sake, I hope not...

Why are so many people against the inner relief road? I don't see too many problems with it. That being said, I would prefer to see the ring road completed.

If the inner relief road were to be built, it might allow for the pedestrianisation of some of the streets in the city. But the city could certainly do with another bridge in the city. Having just Greens Bridge and John's Bridge isn't enough.

jiggajt

zootroid wrote: »

Why are so many people against the inner relief road? I don't see too many problems with it. That being said, I would prefer to see the ring road completed.

If the inner relief road were to be built, it might allow for the pedestrianisation of some of the streets in the city. But the city could certainly do with another bridge in the city. Having just Greens Bridge and John's Bridge isn't enough.

For starters it will prove too expensive when the alternative of completion of the ring road will acheive a similar drop in traffic volume in the city centre for a fraction of the cost.

Secondly, how many modern cities are building roads IN/THROUGH their city centres. Answer... none, they are all taking roads away from their centres and creating orbital routes with bus corridors, cycle lanes and pedestrianised streets.

Thirdly, the planned route of the Inner Relief Road/Central Access Scheme will re-create a divide between the old city and irishtown something which hasnt been seen since the days of the earl of ormonde in Kilkenny. This is the key problem the Heritage Council has with the plan.

In short, traffic in Kilkenny is not that bad. The majority of Kilkenny's traffic problems can be alleviated by completion of the ring road (Which by the way WILL add another bridge to the current 3) and by stopping eejits parking up on the kerb on high st with their hazards on while they "run" into the post office for something!

fricatus

A few points:

- Roads that cut through the heart of urban areas are a seriously bad idea. They rarely achieve any positive benefits in terms of access, and ruin the urban fabric of the area.

- The ring road around Kilkenny should be completed as soon as funds allow, and there should, if anything, be an effort to reduce car use in the centre. The short distance between the centre of the city and the ring road (in every direction) should make this a realistic aim.

- The new M9 motorway will be open in around a year and will ease the pressure on the ring road. Remember that all the trucks heading to and from Waterford to the north currently have to use the KK ring road because of the restrictions on HGVs in Thomastown.

- Even if planning is granted and funding is available, I can't honestly see how Citymart can go ahead for the forseeable future. I don't know the story on the residential side in Kilkenny specifically, but nationally, there is a massive oversupply of accommodation (10-15% I believe), and there seem to be plenty of unsold properties on the Callan road for example.

- On the shopping side, McDonagh Junction is only half full, and last time I was there (about three weeks ago), seemed not to have filled any of the empty units. I honestly can't see who would invest in another shopping centre next door while there are empty units in McDonagh.

catbear

I agree with you fricatus, the number of empty properties in the centre may become a liability if neglected. For the most part the centre has been emptying out, perhaps High street pedestrianisation would help. I know many mothers who prefer to meet their friends for coffee in Mcdonagh Junction because High street is a war between buggies and cars. At the moment the cars have won.

I believe rather than more new inner roads to solve every congestion, concentrating on changing current traffic flow may prove the better option.

i believe people will support changes to the traffic flow now as they realise there's no money there for anything else, so we'll have acceptance for working with what we have and improving on that alone for the foreseeable future.

road_high

The west side of the city requires far more investment in relation to roads. Complete a western relief road around from the Callan to Freshford roads and on to meet the existing ring road at the Castlecomer road. It would be far better investment than the proposal.

ztoical

mfitzy wrote: »

Complete a western relief road around from the Callan to Freshford roads and on to meet the existing ring road at the Castlecomer road.

+ 1 finishing the ring road makes the most sense at the moment. Only reasons I drive through Irish town at all is to get to Freshford. The road through the town makes no sense on any level, it won't help with the traffic in the town center and it will ruin the feel of a town that relies very heavily on tourist dollars.

It makes far more sense to move the ring road and encourage certain shops like Argos to move out to somewhere on the ring road. Keep the city center for smaller shops and cafes and pedestrianize High Street at least during the day. Growing up in Thurles I know alot of people who would come to Kilkenny for the day as it was close by, a nice town to walk around and the shops on high street always had a good selection of clothes, books etc without being big plastic high street shops. Thats a big appeal to tourists. It use to be a big deal going to name brand shops, most of the time you had to go to Dublin to find them but now every town has them and people are now looking for that home town charm factor.

Davaeo09

"a feral society of tribesmen by then."

Ugg?

Captain Havoc

Completing the ring road and the inner relief road have been talked about since the eighties so don't expect anything to be done in our life time. The extension that was made to the ring road has had a positive and significant effect on traffic in the city but I think it's ground to a hault for at least another twenty years.
I also doubt any counciller will come with a statement saying they have a start date decided any time soon. (Even if they did I wouldn't believe it)

jiggajt

I CANT believe they've done this:

http://www.kilkennyalive.com/story/bord-plean%C3%A1la-yes-city-relief-road

This is a disaster. If they have permission it means its going to be built at some stage. Its going to DESTROY the city. I really cant believe they granted permission! :eek:

Captain Havoc

With the brewery going that side of the city was going to change anyway, so not disapointed about the road in that sense, but non the less disapointed. I still believe completing the ring road would be more beneficial. Mayor Malcolm Noonan isn't pleased about this either: http://www.greenparty.ie/en/news/latest_news/controversial_bridge_gets_go_ahead_in_kilkenny

catbear

I'm very skeptical about it actually happening, plus the future of the brewery is unclear since Diagio postponed the development of their superbrewery.

Agree with everyone who supports the completion of the ring road.

Rowley Birkin QC

I haven't looked at the proposal in detail but in general there are serious misconceptions about the advantages of putting relief roads as far away as possible.

catbear

I'm very skeptical about it actually happening, plus the future of the brewery is unclear since Diagio postponed the development of their superbrewery.

Agree with everyone who supports the completion of the ring road.

jiggajt

catbear wrote: »

I'm very skeptical about it actually happening, plus the future of the brewery is unclear since Diagio postponed the development of their superbrewery.

Agree with everyone who supports the completion of the ring road.

That being said, now that it has planning permission i think it will be built at some stage. Looking at the plans in the EIS it only runs through a small section of the brewery and could potentially be accomodated even if the brewery stays open as the bridge technically starts on Dean st. If you look at the animation below it seems to start rising at the corner of dean st and vicar st.

Tazpm

There is an artical on this in the kilkenny advertiser today!!! I agree with the ring road completion and leaving the city be!! Look at the state of the parade and thats a important part of the city