Manditory flu vaccinations now a possibility in Ireland.

Run_to_da_hills

Ireland now faces a bill of €85 million arising from the swine flu pandemic. the HSE was told in a report on Thursday that it would cost about €80 million to purchase a vaccine against the swine flu A(H1N1) virus.

It will be only a matter of time before we will be told that we have to get the jab. :eek:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0613/1224248768808.html

espinolman

I found the following and they are talking of a lethal cocktail of poisons in the vaccine , is this true ? Is this really about culling off 2 billion human beings ?:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:
Mass culling of world population 11/11/2009


http://forum.911movement.org/index.php?showtopic=6536

Run_to_da_hills

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Ireland now faces a bill of €85 million arising from the swine flu pandemic. the HSE was told in a report on Thursday that it would cost about €80 million to purchase a vaccine against the swine flu A(H1N1) virus.

It will be only a matter of time before we will be told that we have to get the jab. :eek:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0613/1224248768808.html

But there's nothing in that article to say that the vaccine will be mandatory.
What leads you to believe it will be?

Why will it be a bad thing if it was?

espinolman

espinolman wrote: »

I found the following and they are talking of a lethal cocktail of poisons in the vaccine , is this true ? Is this really about culling off 2 billion human beings ?:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:
Mass culling of world population 11/11/2009


http://forum.911movement.org/index.php?showtopic=6536

Wow there's so much wrong there I don't know where to start.

But I think the most important one is the fact it's not talking about a vaccine for swine flu.

espinolman

King Mob wrote: »

But I think the most important one is the fact it's not talking about a vaccine for swine flu.

Yes it is :

Therefore, governments will now suggest or enforce that the population are vaccinated - before winter comes - hence the large stockpiles of vaccines already in place. Then just like with AIDS and with the killer smallpox vaccine, you'll see people dieing more and more as winter approaches - not because of some swine virus but because of the lethal cocktail of poisons in the vaccine! This is a repeat of the 1918 Spanish flu vaccine massacre!

from : http://forum.911movement.org/index.php?showtopic=6536

espinolman

espinolman wrote: »

Yes it is :



from : http://forum.911movement.org/index.php?showtopic=6536

Ah so where exactly is the evidence that the swine flu vaccine is dangerous?

Run_to_da_hills

King Mob wrote: »

Why will it be a bad thing if it was?

Because you may be forced to be pumped with the unknown, IE toxic chemicals. :eek:

bevan619

Hmm...


Perhaps this 'virus' was created by the pharmaceutical company they are purchasing the vaccination from.

Think about it.

Why hasn't the 'virus' happened before?

Run_to_da_hills

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Because you may be forced to be pumped with the unknown, IE toxic chemicals. :eek:

Ignoring difficult questions again?
Ok so we can assume you have nothing to support the idea that they will be mandatory. Big shock there.

What evidence do you have the vaccine will be in anyway dangerous?

Run_to_da_hills

King Mob wrote: »

What evidence do you have the vaccine will be in anyway dangerous?

King, I dare you be the first to try it. Guinea pigs are paid a good rate. :pac:

espinolman

King Mob wrote: »

Ah so where exactly is the evidence that the swine flu vaccine is dangerous?

See this

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=13356

look what she says there :

I was one of the people duped into taking a Swine Flu shot and it made me so sick. I was sick in bed for three months after taking the vaccine.

and also:

Do not take seasonal flu vaccine if you are told that it could help prevent this brand new Swine Flu variant. It won't do a thing to prevent this flu. What it will do is serve up new genetic material to the Swine Flu virus that I have dubbed Spanish Flu 2, the Sequel. The Spanish Flu variant will use the gene sequences in the vaccine in humans to develop more of the changes that make the virus more readily infect humans. We do not want to give this virus more human genetic material so that it will infect humans more readily person to person. This is what vaccinated individuals do for pandemic strains.

bevan619

bevan619 wrote: »

Hmm...


Perhaps this 'virus' was created by the pharmaceutical company they are purchasing the vaccination from.

Think about it.

Why hasn't the 'virus' happened before?

But the pharmaceutical companies would make far far more money from treatment of the virus than from a vaccine.

espinolman

espinolman wrote: »

See this

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=13356

look what she says there :

You mean from the 1976 outbreak?
Where the serious side effect where a very small percentage compared to the number of people vaccinated?
Where the vast, vast majority of people where perfectly fine?

What has this to do with the current swine flu vaccine?

Run_to_da_hills

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

King, I dare you be the first to try it. Guinea pigs are paid a good rate. :pac:

So no you have no evidence for that either then.

Are you just hoping that the fear will stop people for examining your claims too closely?

bevan619

King Mob wrote: »

But the pharmaceutical companies would make far far more money from treatment of the virus than from a vaccine.

Exactly. They will hand out this vaccine (which they will make sure doesn't work) and then when people still die they will treat it and get more money.

bevan619

bevan619 wrote: »

Exactly. They will hand out this vaccine (which they will make sure doesn't work) and then when people still die they will treat it and get more money.

Have you any evidence for this?

And why don't they do it for every disease?

bevan619

King Mob wrote: »

Have you any evidence for this?

And why don't they do it for every disease?

I do have evidence but it's classified.

They don't do it for every disease as this is the first man made disease.

bevan619

bevan619 wrote: »

I do have evidence but it's classified.

I bet.

bevan619 wrote: »

They don't do it for every disease as this is the first man made disease.

And you know it's a man made disease because....

bevan619

King Mob wrote: »

I bet.

And you know it's a man made disease because....

Okay so I don't have evidence. But think about it.

bevan619

bevan619 wrote: »

Okay so I don't have evidence. But think about it.

But there are organisations that actually monitor the effectiveness of things like vaccines.
Besides a different company would just swoop in a develop a vaccine that did work and undercut the other one.

And the cost of developing the virus, releasing it and then covering it up would far out way the benefits.

Sofa_King Good

King Mob wrote: »

And the cost of developing the virus, releasing it and then covering it up would far out way the benefits.

Exactly how much would it cost?

Have you any evidence to confirm it would far outweigh the benefits?

And someone should really contact the cocaine labs in Colombia, perhaps if they knew they were operating at a loss what with all the developmental and cover up costs

Sofa_King Good

Sofa_King Good wrote: »

Exactly how much would it cost?

Have you any evidence to confirm it would far outweigh the benefits?

And someone should really contact the cocaine labs in Colombia, perhaps if they knew they were operating at a loss what with all the developmental and cover up costs

Last time I checked there wasn't independent organisations checking the safety and efficacy of cocaine in Colombia.

But to create a virus you're gonna need a research team that'll get the job done and keep it a secret for ever. That'll cost you a bit.
Then the facilities and materials needed plus keeping everyone invovled in that quiet.
Then the delivery system getting the virus all over the world and keeping everyone involved quiet.
Then there's the other research team to develop the vaccine that doesn't work plus materials and facilities plus keep quite money.
Then there's the FDA and all the other organisations that monitor drugs in all the countries you are going to sell it in. They'll have to be bribed to get the vaccine approved.
Plus the governments in each of the countries for not only keeping quiet but for making the vaccine mandatory.
Then there's all the other drug companies that you'll have to keep away form your market.
Then there's all the researchers and other health oganisations you'll have to bride if they stumble on the truth.
Plus all the doctors you'll have convince to use your vaccine.
Plus the media campaigns to convince the public.
And add the normal costs of making and delivering the new vaccine.

Don't think I can put a number on it with knowing how much secret labs and scientist go for these days.

As for the benefit let's say 50 dollars per vaccine all together (which would be ridiculously expensive) that's 300 billion dollars if you get every man woman and child (and that's very unlikely).

I don't think 300 billion dollar would cover all that.
Or at least not enough to be worth risking the entire industry.
Or getting the swine flu.

But I could be wrong.

And why ask for evidence Sofa King Good?
A lack of it never seems to bother you.

bonkey

bevan619 wrote: »

Why hasn't the 'virus' happened before?

Because of the highly mutational nature of the influenza virus?

Purple Gorilla

Can't wait to come back to this thread after the vaccination and hear about how this is just a stepping stone to the bigger depopulation event...




...lol

Run_to_da_hills

Purple Gorilla wrote: »

Can't wait to come back to this thread after the vaccination and hear about how this is just a stepping stone to the bigger depopulation event...




...lol

You might not be around after the vaccination. :eek:

Purple Gorilla

Purple Gorilla wrote: »

Can't wait to come back to this thread after the vaccination and hear about how this is just a stepping stone to the bigger depopulation event...

...lol

Exactly like what happened when swine flu was first reported?
Like how people claimed they were going to declare martial law and that it was going to wipe out all the Mexicans?

Remember a prediction can't be wrong if it's not specific.

Run_to_da_hills

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

You might not be around after the vaccination. :eek:

Because....?

The evil vaccine is going to eat him?

Purple Gorilla

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

You might not be around after the vaccination. :eek:

Your 100% right.... then again, Hitler might rise from the dead and he might ring PlayTV on TV3 where he might get through to the studio and he might win €300 after finding the 3 faces in the coffee beans.


The chances of me being dead after the vaccination is about as likely as that prediction that something big would happen January 21 ..remember how you all posted about how something huge would happen on that day? Did anything happen? No... but let me guess, it's a pre-cursor to something

WakeUp

King Mob wrote: »

But to create a virus you're gonna need a research team that'll get the job done and keep it a secret for ever. That'll cost you a bit.

It wouldn’t cost much one virologist could get the job done actually. You would have to assume that if this person or persons where actively creating a virus for malicious purposes they are going to keep there mouth/s shut anyways.

King Mob wrote: »

Then the facilities and materials needed plus keeping everyone invovled in that quiet.

Materials are readily available so are the facilities. Recently US scientists resurrected a sample of the 1918 “Spanish” flu for test purposes for example. That particular strain of flu was responsible for the deaths of nearly 50 million people. What if say they combined that strain with some other strain for “test” purposes, then there is an “accident” in a lab and the virus escapes ,then boom you got yourself a new type of virus.

King Mob wrote: »

Then the delivery system getting the virus all over the world and keeping everyone involved quiet.

Quite simple you create an airborne virus, one virologist could do this, with its genetic makeup composed of RNA as opposed to DNA. The reason you would use RNA is because viruses containing ribonucleic-acid as there main genetic material have a much higher mutation rate than DNA type viruses and they spread faster. Its harder for our bodies to defend against them or scientists to predict there mutation rate and pattern. Some of the most deadly strains of virus we know of predominantly contain RNA, -HIV, Ebola, SARS & Flu to name a few, two of which are airborne.

King Mob wrote: »

Then there's the other research team to develop the vaccine that doesn't work plus materials and facilities plus keep quite money.

Again if there was malicious intent involved it doesn’t take much to claim to have discovered a vaccine that works. One person could do this aswell in a basic enough lab.

King Mob wrote: »

Then there's the FDA and all the other organisations that monitor drugs in all the countries you are going to sell it in. They'll have to be bribed to get the vaccine approved.

Stranger things have happened you can never say never all it takes is for the right people in the right positions to make it happen. Also the vaccine may at first appear to be combating the virus but at a later date recombine with it to create a new virus or deadlier strain in its current form.

King Mob wrote: »

Plus the governments in each of the countries for not only keeping quiet but for making the vaccine mandatory.

The governments will take the advice of the FDA or WHO in most instances the government will rely on professional advice. Also they could be panicked into making a hasty decision if the virus was severe enough.

King Mob wrote: »

Then there's all the other drug companies that you'll have to keep away form your market.

You don’t really have to do that though. If a vaccine was created it would be patented which would help.

King Mob wrote: »

Then there's all the researchers and other health oganisations you'll have to bride if they stumble on the truth.

Once a virus is out in the open and depending on its make-up it will mutate regularly. This makes it very hard to pinpoint its place of origin & original genetic makeup and therefore for anybody to prove that it was infact manufactured in a lab, it would be very difficult to prove that conclusively if not impossible.

King Mob wrote: »

Plus all the doctors you'll have convince to use your vaccine.

You have to convince a government virologist not doctors I am presuming you mean GP’s when you say doctors. The doctors do what the health department tells them in matters such as this i.e nationwide vaccination.

King Mob wrote: »

Plus the media campaigns to convince the public.

[font=&quot]Scared people do not take much convincing[/font]

King Mob wrote: »

And add the normal costs of making and delivering the new vaccine.

If they were intent on doing it money would not be an issue. If they were charging people for the vaccine then obviously they would take their costs into consideration and mark the price up accordingly.


[font=&quot]The above is just my opinion an alternative to what you have outlined yourself[/font]

WakeUp

WakeUp wrote: »

It wouldn’t cost much one virologist could get the job done actually. You would have to assume that if this person or persons where actively creating a virus for malicious purposes they are going to keep there mouth/s shut anyways.

Well no. One person wouldn't be able to do the work effectively. If they where to develop a virus to do some of the some you say it might do you'd need to develop an entirely new one.
This would take a team.

And if they're unaware of the intent of the virus then what's to stop them from leaking the information if they figure out that the virus killing millions is the one they developed?

WakeUp wrote: »

Materials are readily available so are the facilities. Recently US scientists resurrected a sample of the 1918 “Spanish” flu for test purposes for example. That particular strain of flu was responsible for the deaths of nearly 50 million people. What if say they combined that strain with some other strain for “test” purposes, then there is an “accident” in a lab and the virus escapes ,then boom you got yourself a new type of virus.

Again this is also going to need a team to do.
And this lab could be traced back to the company if there is an accident.
And you'd still need to pay for the lab and staff as normal. Then the extra pay for the "accident."

WakeUp wrote: »

Quite simple you create an airborne virus, one virologist could do this, with its genetic makeup composed of RNA as opposed to DNA. The reason you would use RNA is because viruses containing ribonucleic-acid as there main genetic material have a much higher mutation rate than DNA type viruses and they spread faster. Its harder for our bodies to defend against them or scientists to predict there mutation rate and pattern. Some of the most deadly strains of virus we know of predominantly contain RNA, -HIV, Ebola, SARS & Flu to name a few, two of which are airborne.

That won't guarantee a pandemic. And why release a virus close enough to you that it'll probably infect you and your kids. Evil corporate puppeteers might have families too.

WakeUp wrote: »

Again if there was malicious intent involved it doesn’t take much to claim to have discovered a vaccine that works. One person could do this aswell in a basic enough lab.

Again not really. To develop a vaccine that doesn't work would be very tricky. Even more so if the scientist have to be kept in the dark.

WakeUp wrote: »

Stranger things have happened you can never say never all it takes is for the right people in the right positions to make it happen. Also the vaccine may at first appear to be combating the virus but at a later date recombine with it to create a new virus or deadlier strain in its current form.

You simply couldn't be able to control a virus like the flu to that degree. Even then there'd be no guarantee when this would happen and it would be possible the vaccine stops the virus before it spreads.

WakeUp wrote: »

The governments will take the advice of the FDA or WHO in most instances the government will rely on professional advice. Also they could be panicked into making a hasty decision if the virus was severe enough.

But they'll cop on fairly fast when the vaccine doesn't work. You'd still need to stop them from investigating at the very least.

WakeUp wrote: »

You don’t really have to do that though. If a vaccine was created it would be patented which would help.

Then whats to stop them from developing a vaccine that does work? A patent wouldn't stop that.
Or what if they simply announced the truth in a attempt to discredit you?

WakeUp wrote: »

Once a virus is out in the open and depending on its make-up it will mutate regularly. This makes it very hard to pinpoint its place of origin & original genetic makeup and therefore for anybody to prove that it was infact manufactured in a lab, it would be very difficult to prove that conclusively if not impossible.

Not really. There could very well be indications of its origin. Especially if they can't see the evolutionary linage of the virus, which a artificial virus wouldn't have.
If you use a hybrid of the old Spanish flu? There'd still be indications of that and it would trace back to your company.
There's simply no way to control the virus in such a manner.

WakeUp wrote: »

You have to convince a government virologist not doctors I am presuming you mean GP’s when you say doctors. The doctors do what the health department tells them in matters such as this i.e nationwide vaccination.

Again when they see the vaccine not working they get suspicious. They'll simply stop giving them.

WakeUp wrote: »

Scared people do not take much convincing

Still some people refuse to get vaccines. Even with a global pandemic you're looking at maybe 60% of the population that'll get the vaccine.

WakeUp wrote: »

If they were intent on doing it money would not be an issue. If they were charging people for the vaccine then obviously they would take their costs into consideration and mark the price up accordingly.

But if there's no profit in it why do it at all?
There's only so much they can mark up the price.

WakeUp wrote: »

The above is just my opinion an alternative to what you have outlined yourself

And they're good points.
But both of our scenarios are just speculation.

DTrotter

bevan619 wrote: »

Okay so I don't have evidence. But think about it.

You'll be treated like a king in here.

WakeUp

King Mob wrote: »

Well no. One person wouldn't be able to do the work effectively. If they where to develop a virus to do some of the some you say it might do you'd need to develop an entirely new one.
This would take a team.

I would have to disagree with you there. One virologist with the required materials and a proper working understanding of virology and molecular biology could create a new virus not a bother to them. I was assuming you were talking about a new type of virus in your original comment anyway I don’t think it would necessarily take a team to do this. Having a team working on it may however increase its chances of success or to negate failure which ever way you want to look at it on the basis that 2,3,4 brains are better than one but Im still of the opinion one person if good enough at what they do ,and wanted to, could do it no problem.

King Mob wrote: »

And if they're unaware of the intent of the virus then what's to stop them from leaking the information if they figure out that the virus killing millions is the one they developed?

That’s a fair comment if indeed they were unaware what they were doing or what the real purpose of their work was. Im commenting on the basis that they know exactly what their doing and why they are doing it.

King Mob wrote: »

Again this is also going to need a team to do.
And this lab could be traced back to the company if there is an accident.
And you'd still need to pay for the lab and staff as normal. Then the extra pay for the "accident."

Ok you know my position about the team involvement. In the comment you are referring to I was giving you an example as to how a virus may be released in an accident be it intentional or unintentional. Yes it could be traced back to the lab if say for example there was an explosion in the lab as happened in China in the 1980s which was picked up by Russian satellites. The Russians sent agents into the area to investigate as they suspected it was a secret bio-weapons lab. Their agents found evidence of two types of never before seen viruses which coincided with the explosion at this facility. Another scenario is the virus is released from a lab that nobody knows about which would make it nigh on impossible to trace back to that particular lab.
http://www.nytimes.com/1999/04/05/world/soviet-defector-says-china-had-accident-at-a-germ-plant.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Alibek

King Mob wrote: »

That won't guarantee a pandemic. And why release a virus close enough to you that it'll probably infect you and your kids. Evil corporate puppeteers might have families too.

It wont guarantee anything that’s true. I was giving you a possible “delivery” system and some of the science behind the virus which in my opinion would need to be created for the best chance of success. Nobody said anything about releasing it close to anyone. There are plenty of ways to release a virus far far away from where it originated.

King Mob wrote: »

Again not really. To develop a vaccine that doesn't work would be very tricky. Even more so if the scientist have to be kept in the dark.

To develop a vaccine that doesn’t work would may not be tricky in my opinion. Were not talking about them being kept in the dark the idea is they know what their doing.

King Mob wrote: »

You simply couldn't be able to control a virus like the flu to that degree. Even then there'd be no guarantee when this would happen and it would be possible the vaccine stops the virus before it spreads.

With all due respect how do you know that? You cant guarantee anything which is true and it may slow down the virus initially but its your body in the end that decides if it fights the infection off completely or not. Some vaccines are live and some are not. Some people respond to vaccines and some don’t. Any number of things can happen the science behind vaccines and people is not clear cut and strait forward. In my opinion if they can manipulate viruses in a lab they can manipulate vaccines aswell to what end and purposes though no one knows for sure.

King Mob wrote: »

But they'll cop on fairly fast when the vaccine doesn't work. You'd still need to stop them from investigating at the very least.

There is any number of scenarios which could occur in this instance. You would expect them to cop on quick enough alrite it would probably depend on how fast the virus was spreading- to- people being vaccinated. For example if the virus has an incubation period of say a week how many people would you expect to have vaccinated within that week. I reckon you could vaccinate a lot people within a week so in theory by the time you realize it doesn’t work everyone could have been jabbed already. I don’t think its cut and dry is a matter of circumstance actually.

King Mob wrote: »

Then whats to stop them from developing a vaccine that does work? A patent wouldn't stop that.
Or what if they simply announced the truth in a attempt to discredit you?

That’s all very well and good in fairness though were talking about a vaccine that doesn’t purposely work.

King Mob wrote: »

Not really. There could very well be indications of its origin. Especially if they can't see the evolutionary linage of the virus, which a artificial virus wouldn't have.
If you use a hybrid of the old Spanish flu? There'd still be indications of that and it would trace back to your company.
There's simply no way to control the virus in such a manner.

I don’t know why your saying there is “no way to control the virus in such manner” it does not really have anything to do with the comment I made. Also, saying “ there could well be indications of its origin” and in the following sentence saying “ especially if they cant see the evolutionary linage of the virus, which an artificial virus wouldn’t have” doesn’t really make sense. It’s a fact that RNA viruses mutate rapidly, more so than DNA types which is what I was explaining. It would be very difficult to pinpoint its origins i.e to a lab it would actually be impossible in my opinion unless somebody came forward to admit their involvement.

King Mob wrote: »

Again when they see the vaccine not working they get suspicious. They'll simply stop giving them.

It’s a matter of circumstance a couple of comments back I explained what I meant by that.

King Mob wrote: »

Still some people refuse to get vaccines. Even with a global pandemic you're looking at maybe 60% of the population that'll get the vaccine.

That’s true but even if it is only 60% that’s still a lot of people. If the government were to physically enforce it that’s another matter all together.

King Mob wrote: »

But if there's no profit in it why do it at all?
There's only so much they can mark up the price.

Who said anything about there not being any profit in it, Im not really sure what you mean by that comment is a little confusing.

King Mob wrote: »

And they're good points.
But both of our scenarios are just speculation.

You raise some fair points aswell at the end of the day it is speculation on both our parts alright but that’s what were doing were debating possibilities so is all good.

WakeUp

WakeUp wrote: »

I would have to disagree with you there. One virologist with the required materials and a proper working understanding of virology and molecular biology could create a new virus not a bother to them. I was assuming you were talking about a new type of virus in your original comment anyway I don’t think it would necessarily take a team to do this. Having a team working on it may however increase its chances of success or to negate failure which ever way you want to look at it on the basis that 2,3,4 brains are better than one but Im still of the opinion one person if good enough at what they do ,and wanted to, could do it no problem.

That's simply not true.
Making a virus (or even engineer an existing one) to do the things you're suggesting would take a ton of work.
It's not like programing a computer.
You have to code the entire RNA of the virus (possibly several). isolate the traits you want then breed a virus that has all the traits. Then mass produce it.
This takes a lot of grunt work.

WakeUp wrote: »

That’s a fair comment if indeed they were unaware what they were doing or what the real purpose of their work was. Im commenting on the basis that they know exactly what their doing and why they are doing it.

So if they are aware of what they are doing why are they doing it if not for ludicrous amounts of money?

WakeUp wrote: »

Ok you know my position about the team involvement. In the comment you are referring to I was giving you an example as to how a virus may be released in an accident be it intentional or unintentional. Yes it could be traced back to the lab if say for example there was an explosion in the lab as happened in China in the 1980s which was picked up by Russian satellites. The Russians sent agents into the area to investigate as they suspected it was a secret bio-weapons lab. Their agents found evidence of two types of never before seen viruses which coincided with the explosion at this facility. Another scenario is the virus is released from a lab that nobody knows about which would make it nigh on impossible to trace back to that particular lab.
http://www.nytimes.com/1999/04/05/world/soviet-defector-says-china-had-accident-at-a-germ-plant.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Alibek

I'd imagine that a secret laboratory would be kind of expensive don't you?
And even more expensive to keep a secret. You'd have to pay off all the the staff maintaining the place on top of the scientists plus the normal costs of run ning such a place.

WakeUp wrote: »

It wont guarantee anything that’s true. I was giving you a possible “delivery” system and some of the science behind the virus which in my opinion would need to be created for the best chance of success. Nobody said anything about releasing it close to anyone. There are plenty of ways to release a virus far far away from where it originated.

And all those ways cost a lot of money. Especially if you need it to be a secret.

WakeUp wrote: »

To develop a vaccine that doesn’t work would may not be tricky in my opinion. Were not talking about them being kept in the dark the idea is they know what their doing.

Again why would they do this if not for huge piles of money?

WakeUp wrote: »

With all due respect how do you know that? You cant guarantee anything which is true and it may slow down the virus initially but its your body in the end that decides if it fights the infection off completely or not. Some vaccines are live and some are not. Some people respond to vaccines and some don’t. Any number of things can happen the science behind vaccines and people is not clear cut and strait forward. In my opinion if they can manipulate viruses in a lab they can manipulate vaccines aswell to what end and purposes though no one knows for sure.

There is simply no way to control how a virus will mutate.
You can guarantee that it will mutate but there's nothing to guarantee that it will mutate to become immune to your vaccine in time.

WakeUp wrote: »

There is any number of scenarios which could occur in this instance. You would expect them to cop on quick enough alrite it would probably depend on how fast the virus was spreading- to- people being vaccinated. For example if the virus has an incubation period of say a week how many people would you expect to have vaccinated within that week. I reckon you could vaccinate a lot people within a week so in theory by the time you realize it doesn’t work everyone could have been jabbed already. I don’t think its cut and dry is a matter of circumstance actually.

Then you have an investigation into your company as to why your vaccine didn't do anything.

WakeUp wrote: »

That’s all very well and good in fairness though were talking about a vaccine that doesn’t purposely work.

Then what's stopping them from making one that does work?

WakeUp wrote: »

I don’t know why your saying there is “no way to control the virus in such manner” it does not really have anything to do with the comment I made. Also, saying “ there could well be indications of its origin” and in the following sentence saying “ especially if they cant see the evolutionary linage of the virus, which an artificial virus wouldn’t have” doesn’t really make sense. It’s a fact that RNA viruses mutate rapidly, more so than DNA types which is what I was explaining. It would be very difficult to pinpoint its origins i.e to a lab it would actually be impossible in my opinion unless somebody came forward to admit their involvement.

They mutate rapidly but the still have particular markers that allow the evolution to be tracked.
They can see by genetics and tracking where a virus emerged and from what strain. An artificial or engineered virus would have features not that could not naturally raise and are not common with any parent strain.
It would be obvious that it is engineered regardless of the amount of mutations.

WakeUp wrote: »

It’s a matter of circumstance a couple of comments back I explained what I meant by that.

And they'll be the first to report the fact the vaccine doesn't work.

WakeUp wrote: »

That’s true but even if it is only 60% that’s still a lot of people. If the government were to physically enforce it that’s another matter all together.

And then that government enforcement will cost money. And when it gets out that the vaccine didn't work it would cause an even bigger back lash against both the government and the pharmaceutical industry as a whole. And would likely lead to drops in sales all across the board.

WakeUp wrote: »

Who said anything about there not being any profit in it, Im not really sure what you mean by that comment is a little confusing.

If profit was the goal then cost would be a huge huge issue.
I'm just not see how they would profit given the huge cost of this supposed plot.

WakeUp

King Mob wrote: »

That's simply not true.
Making a virus (or even engineer an existing one) to do the things you're suggesting would take a ton of work.
It's not like programing a computer.
You have to code the entire RNA of the virus (possibly several). isolate the traits you want then breed a virus that has all the traits. Then mass produce it.
This takes a lot of grunt work.

All Im suggesting is that one person could create a virus, nothing more. I think your getting mixed up between our discussion about the creation of a virus and the creation of a vaccine.

King Mob wrote: »

So if they are aware of what they are doing why are they doing it if not for ludicrous amounts of money?

It doesn’t matter why they are doing it were discussing if it can be done or not, regardless of motive, you keep throwing these random questions up.

King Mob wrote: »

I'd imagine that a secret laboratory would be kind of expensive don't you?
And even more expensive to keep a secret. You'd have to pay off all the the staff maintaining the place on top of the scientists plus the normal costs of run ning such a place.

What exactly does that mean, so you don’t believe what Ken Alibek said, is cool if you don’t is your opinion but is that what you mean? It has to be what you mean why don’t you just say that’s what you mean instead of fannying around the bush just spit it out is much easier.

King Mob wrote: »

And all those ways cost a lot of money. Especially if you need it to be a secret.

And????

King Mob wrote: »

Again why would they do this if not for huge piles of money?

What do you want me to say were not discussing why they are doing it were discussing if it can be done. Ok then, they were given a few yoyos for jaffa cakes and milky bars are you happy now.

King Mob wrote: »

There is simply no way to control how a virus will mutate.
You can guarantee that it will mutate but there's nothing to guarantee that it will mutate to become immune to your vaccine in time.

I think you’re a little mixed up dude, really, I might have to end this little natter soon cause your starting to annoy me, of course you cant control how a virus mutates why are you talking about it mutating to become immune to a vaccine. The point I think your referring to which was a good few comments back, notice how I still know what were talking about, was if the vaccine could possibly recombine with the virus at a future date, not back to front as you have stated, again and again. Keep in mind that some vaccines are live.

King Mob wrote: »

Then you have an investigation into your company as to why your vaccine didn't do anything.

Bit of explaining to do alrite.

King Mob wrote: »

Then what's stopping them from making one that does work?

There you go again with your random ramblings why are you asking me that.

King Mob wrote: »

They mutate rapidly but the still have particular markers that allow the evolution to be tracked.
They can see by genetics and tracking where a virus emerged and from what strain. An artificial or engineered virus would have features not that could not naturally raise and are not common with any parent strain.
It would be obvious that it is engineered regardless of the amount of mutations.

That’s not entirely true it wouldn’t be obvious at all for numerous reasons. Explain to me what your understanding of an artificial virus is. And please don’t mention money.

King Mob wrote: »

And they'll be the first to report the fact the vaccine doesn't work.

10 out of 10 for observation.

King Mob wrote: »

And then that government enforcement will cost money. And when it gets out that the vaccine didn't work it would cause an even bigger back lash against both the government and the pharmaceutical industry as a whole. And would likely lead to drops in sales all across the board.

your not talking about money are you.

King Mob wrote: »

If profit was the goal then cost would be a huge huge issue.
I'm just not see how they would profit given the huge cost of this supposed plot.

Were discussing POSSIBILITIES there is no plot, except maybe in your head, Jaysus.

WakeUp

WakeUp wrote: »

All Im suggesting is that one person could create a virus, nothing more. I think your getting mixed up between our discussion about the creation of a virus and the creation of a vaccine.

It doesn’t matter why they are doing it were discussing if it can be done or not, regardless of motive, you keep throwing these random questions up.

What exactly does that mean, so you don’t believe what Ken Alibek said, is cool if you don’t is your opinion but is that what you mean? It has to be what you mean why don’t you just say that’s what you mean instead of fannying around the bush just spit it out is much easier.

And???

What do you want me to say were not discussing why they are doing it were discussing if it can be done. Ok then, they were given a few yoyos for jaffa cakes and milky bars are you happy now.

I think you’re a little mixed up dude, really, I might have to end this little natter soon cause your starting to annoy me, of course you cant control how a virus mutates why are you talking about it mutating to become immune to a vaccine. The point I think your referring to which was a good few comments back, notice how I still know what were talking about, was if the vaccine could possibly recombine with the virus at a future date, not back to front as you have stated, again and again. Keep in mind that some vaccines are live.

Bit of explaining to do alrite.

There you go again with your random ramblings why are you asking me that.

That’s not entirely true it wouldn’t be obvious at all for numerous reasons. Explain to me what your understanding of an artificial virus is. And please don’t mention money.

10 out of 10 for observation.

your not talking about money are you.

Were discussing POSSIBILITIES there is no plot, except maybe in your head, Jaysus.

Yea you're not getting my point at all.

I'm saying the cost of running such a plot would far outweigh any profit.

WakeUp

King Mob wrote: »

Yea you're not getting my point at all.

I'm saying the cost of running such a plot would far outweigh any profit.

I get your point was a little hard not to but it was a while ago, then it resurfaced last few posts and I got it again, but we were discussing something completely different and you would interject with random questions about money and sales and well more money anyways is all good I wanna have something to eat am fooking starving.

WakeUp

WakeUp wrote: »

I get your point was a little hard not to but it was a while ago, then it resurfaced last few posts and I got it again, but we were discussing something completely different and you would interject with random questions about money and sales and well more money anyways is all good I wanna have something to eat am fooking starving.

Because money and sales are part of my point?

The only reason I see anyone taking part in this plot (like developing the virus or vaccine)is for massive amounts of money, which would drive the cost of the entire plot up.

samson09

Pretty lengthy but interesting read all the same:

As Swine Flu Spreads, Conspiracy Theories of Laboratory Origins Abound

Perhaps due to the genetic makeup of the fast-spreading H1N1 strain of influenza -- which includes genetic elements from bird flu, swine flu and human flu spanning three continents -- there is considerable speculation that the origins of this virus are man-made.

It's not an unreasonable question to ask: Could world governments, spooked by the prospect of radical climate change caused by over-population of the planet, have assembled a super-secret task force to engineer and distribute a super virulent strain of influenza designed to "correct" the human population (and institute global Martial Law)?

Technically, it's possible. The U.S. military, all by itself, has the know-how to engineer and unleash such a virus. That doesn't mean they've done so, however. It would be an astonishing leap into crimes against humanity to intentionally unleash such a biological weapon into the wild.

Then again, governments of the world have routinely engaged in crimes against humanity, haven't they? The U.S., for example, dropped nuclear bombs on civilian populations in Japan. Israel rained white phosphorous on Palestinians, Hitler exterminated countless Jews, and Americans fired millions of rounds of depleted uranium rounds into targets in Iraq and Afghanistan. Unleashing a viral biological weapon in Mexico City is no great leap beyond what governments have already done to achieve their goals.

Throughout human history, virtually all the great crimes against humanity have been carried out by governments -- mostly in the name of peace, prosperity and security, by the way. So let's be clear about one thing: Governments are certainly capable of doing this if properly motivated. Let there be no question about that.


Is there any hard evidence of laboratory origins?

As of this moment, I have not personally seen any conclusive evidence of laboratory origins for this H1N1 swine flu. I am open to the possibility that new evidence may emerge in this direction, however, and I am suspicious of the genetic makeup of the virus as one possible indicator of its origins.

I am not a medical specialist in the area of infectious disease, but I have studied microbiology, genetics and a considerable amount of material on pandemics. What seems suspicious to me is the hybrid origin of the viral fragments found in H1N1 influenza. According to reports in the mainstream media (which has no reason to lie about this particular detail), this strain of influenza contains viral code fragments from:

• Human influenza
• Bird Flu from North America
• Swine flu from Europe
• Swine flu from Asia

This is rather astonishing to realize, because for this to have been a natural combination of viral fragments, it means an infected bird from North America would have had to infect pigs in Europe, then be re-infected by those some pigs with an unlikely cross-species mutation that allowed the bird to carry it again, then that bird would have had to fly to Asia and infected pigs there, and those Asian pigs then mutated the virus once again (while preserving the European swine and bird flu elements) to become human transmittable, and then a human would have had to catch that virus from the Asian pigs -- in Mexico! -- and spread it to others. (This isn't the only explanation of how it could have happened, but it is one scenario that gives you an idea of the complexity of such a thing happening).

Now, on a common sense level, what is the likelihood of such a combination of seemingly unlikely, trans-continental events taking place? At first glance, without the benefit of additional laboratory analysis, it seems extremely unlikely that this could have happened "naturally," without human intervention. It's not outside the realm of possibility, of course, but it seems exceedingly remote that such events happened without some human encouragement.

This is perhaps why the internet is smoking hot with talk of swine flu conspiracy theories. Alex Jones is, of course, covering the issue in articles like this one: http://www.infowars.com/medical-dir...

If the release of the virus was intentional, there are essentially two explanations for who might be behind it: 1) Governments attempting to reduce the human population, 2) Bio-terrorists attempting to kill lots of people. Or perhaps 3) Those two groups are one and the same!


Why we shouldn't dismiss the conspiracy theories outright

Many of the points made in conspiracy articles are well made, in fact: There is both a motive and a means for governments of the world to have played a role in the creation and transmission of this virus. Still, it doesn't mean they did, and NaturalNews will be cautious in reporting such conclusions until more evidence emerges.

There's no question about one aspect of the circulating conspiracy theories, however: If governments wanted to infect people with this bio-engineered swine flu, vaccines would be the best way to do it. It seems interesting that Mexico City health officials, in particular, leaped to a mass vaccination campaign in the midst of the swine flu outbreak even though no vaccines are yet available for swine flu!

So what, exactly, were Mexico City's health officials injecting into health care workers and patients? There's absolutely nothing they could have been injected with that would make any medical sense other than Tamiflu. But Tamiflu is an oral medication, not an injection. So what, then, was being injected into Mexico City's hospital workers?

What's very clear here is that Mexico is engaged in a massive cover-up about the swine flu. The potential from economic damage caused by other nations banning travel and imports from Mexico is very real, and as a strategy to minimize that economic damage, Mexico seems to be purposely under-reporting swine flu infections and deaths while engaging in elaborate theater whose only purpose is to make its own medical authorities appear to be doing something useful. Hence the useless vaccines stunt.

This is further supported by medical personnel whose comments appeared on the Barbara Walter show, published with ABC News Australia (http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/20...). Read carefully what these medical experts have to say about the real situation on the ground in Mexico City:

ANTONIO CHAVEZ'S BBC WEBSITE POSTING (voiceover): The truth is that mortality is even higher than what is being reported by the authorities, at least in the hospital where I work in. It is killing three to four patients daily, and it has been going on for more than three weeks. It's a shame that there is fear here.

Increasingly younger patients aged 20 to 30 years are dying before our helpless eyes, and there is great sadness among health professionals here.

BARBARA MILLER: Another doctor who wrote into the BBC is Yeny Gregorio Dávila.

EXCERPT FROM YENY GREGORIO DÁVILA' BBC posing (voiceover): I work as a resident doctor in one of the biggest hospitals in Mexico City and sadly, the situation is far from "under control". As a doctor, I realize that the media does not report the truth. Authorities distributed vaccines among all the medical personnel with no results, because two of my partners who worked in this hospital were killed by this new virus in less than six days, even though they were vaccinated as all of us were. The official number of deaths is 20; nevertheless, the true number of victims are more than 200. I understand that we must avoid panic, but to tell the truth - it might be better now to prevent and avoid more deaths.

BARBARA MILLER: While Mexican officials say their primary concern right now is human life, the country's Finance Minister Augustin Carstens says it's clear that the outbreak will have a significant impact on the country's economy.


Vaccinated doctors dead in days

Did you catch what was said here? As Dr. Yeny Gregoria Davila posted on the BBC website, vaccines were given to the medical personnel and those very same medical personnel were dead within six days. Thus, the vaccine is certainly not protecting these people from infection.

According to the conspiracy theories, these vaccines may indeed be the carrier of the virus. Injecting front-line medical personnel with the virus is the fastest way to spread it even further because medical workers interact with large numbers of immune-compromised people on a daily basis, including many people who tend to travel from far away to visit the hospital and then return to their distant towns, burros or villages in Mexico.

Furthermore, the true number of people infected or killed by the virus is being vastly underreported, according to these doctors. It's just like China's handling of SARS: The country was hesitant to admit the disease existed at all in order to avoid international embarrassment over its lackluster health policies.

As the WHO knows quite well, nations are universally reluctant to tell the truth about infectious disease. There's even a good reason why: Big Pharma usually attempts to acquire the virus early on, patent its particular genetic code, then manufacture expensive vaccines that it sells back to the stricken nation at a ridiculously-high price. This is how Big Pharma profits from a pandemic, turning human suffering into corporate profits.

Thus, it is actually in a nation's economic interests to avoid sharing viral strains with world health authorities because WHO routinely shares viral specimens with pharmaceutical companies. This is just one factor in a long list of factors that compel nations to lie about infectious disease outbreaks.

Even when it comes to pandemic outbreaks, we are still dealing with layer upon layer of commercially-motivated deception on the part of nations. That's why it's so important to figure out how to "read between the lies" of the mainstream media. I teach some techniques for doing that in my upcoming Swine flu advanced preparedness LIVE teleconference which you can read about here: http://www.truthpublishing.com/Swin...

This teleconference also reveals secret Chinese Medicine formulas for expelling viruses, how to survive disruptions in basic infrastructure (which are likely to occur if this swine flu goes pandemic), why flu masks are utterly useless at protecting you from flu, and many other topics. Click the link above to read more about this teleconference.


Another reason to avoid vaccines

Let's suppose for a minute that the conspiracy theory angle on this swine flu infection is correct. If the spread of the virus starts to wane, the best way for health authorities to unleash a second wave of infections is to mandate the vaccination of the public with vaccines that are intentionally contaminated with live H1N1 viruses.

Does that sound far-fetched? Consider the news item published here on NaturalNews just one month ago, entitled Vaccines as Biological Weapons? Live Avian Flu Virus Placed in Baxter Vaccine Materials Sent to 18 Countries (http://www.naturalnews.com/025760.html).

As that article explained, one pharmaceutical company was caught inserting LIVE bird flu viruses into vaccine materials sent to 18 countries. Was this a trial run for the H1N1 global infection effort? It certainly raises suspicions. When a new virus seemingly "engineered" from three different species suddenly appears in multiple nations -- just one month after a drug company was busted inserting live bird flu viral fragments into globally-distributed vaccine materials -- it should raise the eyebrows of even the most steadfast skeptics.

It doesn't prove anything, of course, but it does raise suspicions that this sort of thing could be happening beyond closed doors.

The question to ask yourself on this is the usual one: Who benefits from a global pandemic?

Once you answer that question, you're well on the way to determining the truth or falsehood behind the H1N1 conspiracy theories.

I'm not even going to answer that question for you. I'll let you ponder the answer yourself.

Once you answer the question of who benefits from a pandemic, ask yourself this second question: Are they capable of harming or killing humans to accomplish their goals?

Answer that question and you've figured out most of the true story behind these events.

NaturalNews will continue to cover this H1N1 swine flu outbreak in greatly detail. Watch the website for frequent updates.

Article here: http://www.naturalnews.com/026141.html

6th

I'd edited the above post just to clarify that it is an article from an external source. Link to article also added.

WakeUp

That’s a really interesting article Samson, its frightening aswell.

Couple of points which stuck out for me from both the article and the links….

Centre of Disease control in the US are unable to physically track H1N1 infection rates anymore, their labs cant cope with the volume of cases, so their using a computer simulation to do this.
According to that computer model H1N1 will eventually infect 1/3 maybe 1/2 of the population of the planet. One of their specialists reckons at least 100,000 Americans are likely infected or have been infected. Its worth pointing out that this particular strain(H1N1) is considered “mild” although deadly in the young, elderly and people with underlying medical conditions in particular respiratory & immune system deficiencies.

Even the most skeptical of people would have to admit the genetic makeup of this virus is strange, the chance of this occurring naturally have got to be enormous/remote and that’s being generous.

The big fear scientists have about H1N1 is that it mutates into something virally stronger and according to doctors in Brazil this has just happened, yesterday, though its to early to tell if its stronger or not but it has mutated.

The Adolfo Lutz Bacteriological Institute said its researchers had identified a new strain of A(H1N1) in a patient in Sao Paulo. Their calling the new strain A/Sao Paulo/1454/H1N1. For what its worth they say the mutation comprised alterations in the hemagglutinin protein which allows the virus to infect new hosts.

Vaccines…….

I find it incredible that the Mexicans were “vaccinating” their people when there was no vaccine available at the time, and there still isn’t a vaccine available yet which obviously asks the question wtf were they injecting people with?
If we are to believe the medical professionals on the ground in Mexico and personally I don’t doubt them then the situation is much worse than were being told.
Also, whatever “vaccine” they injected into those doctors blatantly did not work and they died what were they given as far I can see no statement has been made by the Mexican health dept as to exactly what these injections contained. That’s not right imo.

Baxter Int contaminating vaccine samples with live avian flu virus and sending them to 18 countries is shocking for so many reasons imo it was not an accident for numerous reasons you don’t make mistakes like that you just don’t. Incidentally Baxter announced today, 17th, that their H1N1 vaccine will be ready sometime in July. I certainly wont be touching that if it appears in Ireland or any other for that matter that company should not be in business. Other Pharma companies have created a vaccine aswell for pre-clinical testing but if were going by current timescale it looks like Baxter Int will be on the market first.

Theres a lot about this virus that doesn’t add up for me it will be interesting to see not sure if interesting is the right word but, to see if the vaccine when it does appear is live or not. Also, flu generally infects people in the winter time when vitamin d levels are at there lowest we just have to hope and pray their isn’t a massive increase in cases or horrible mutation once winter arrives.

samson09

We can hope and pray but we can also be proactive. Build up your immunity, get plenty of Vit D (from the sun and in supplement form if we have a repeat of the last few summers) excercise and stock up on some natural anti-virals. If I remember correctly, the Spanish flu had a relatively low mortality rate in the northern hemisphere until winter arrived. I definitely wont be getting any vaccines, mandatory or not.

I was talking about this recently with a friend who works for GlaxoSmithKline. He told me that all the staff had been offered optional, free vaccines "to ensure the health of the staff". He isn't against vaccines but even he knew that a vaccine against swine flu is only being developed now, which begs the question, why are they giving vaccines to protect against swine flu when they dont even exist yet? He said he was told that they had a supply of vaccines at hand just in case something like this happened. WTF?!

WakeUp

samson09 wrote: »

We can hope and pray but we can also be proactive. Build up your immunity, get plenty of Vit D (from the sun and in supplement form if we have a repeat of the last few summers) excercise and stock up on some natural anti-virals. If I remember correctly, the Spanish flu had a relatively low mortality rate in the northern hemisphere until winter arrived. I definitely wont be getting any vaccines, mandatory or not.

I was talking about this recently with a friend who works for GlaxoSmithKline. He told me that all the staff had been offered optional, free vaccines "to ensure the health of the staff". He isn't against vaccines but even he knew that a vaccine against swine flu is only being developed now, which begs the question, why are they giving vaccines to protect against swine flu when they dont even exist yet? He said he was told that they had a supply of vaccines at hand just in case something like this happened. WTF?!

Yeah thats fairly strange about your m8 being offered a vaccine. Dont suppose he mentioned what sort of vaccine they were offering him, do you know was it like Tamiflu or an injection of some some sort?...

briktop

well, lets see, when it all kicks off,
( ands its obviously going to kick off come winter )
i will be taking nothing in vaccine form
i will take my chances with being very fit and healthy .


anyone care to wager a bottle of something nice on it , ie if a global pandemic hits ireland - who will still be standing - vaccine takers or non takers ?

lets say by this time next year .

WakeUp

briktop wrote: »

well, lets see, when it all kicks off,
( ands its obviously going to kick off come winter )
i will be taking nothing in vaccine form
i will take my chances with being very fit and healthy .


anyone care to wager a bottle of something nice on it , ie if a global pandemic hits ireland - who will still be standing - vaccine takers or non takers ?

lets say by this time next year .

Im in the nontaker corner to so I dont think I can take your bet:)..

I agree with you , Samson has pointed it out aswell being healthy and looking after yourself , taking vitamin D and such, is the best form of defence against flu. Apparently seasonal flu jabs are only between 16-63% effective against it so if something is only 16% effective then theres really no point in taking it, I would assume any potential swine flu vaccine will be of similar effectiveness, thats just my opinion though.

samson09

WakeUp wrote: »

Yeah thats fairly strange about your m8 being offered a vaccine. Dont suppose he mentioned what sort of vaccine they were offering him, do you know was it like Tamiflu or an injection of some some sort?...

They offered him a flu vaccination, the needly needle type. I dont think that Tamiflu is a vaccine, its a drug and a fairly useless one at that. It can have nasty side effects too. Elderberry extract would be a better idea.

http://www.naturalnews.com/026354_elderberry_Tamiflu_immune_system.html

(Yes, another naturalnews link but they do put out a lot of good info )

WakeUp

samson09 wrote: »

They offered him a flu vaccination, the needly needle type. I dont think that Tamiflu is a vaccine, its a drug and a fairly useless one at that. It can have nasty side effects too. Elderberry extract would be a better idea.

http://www.naturalnews.com/026354_elderberry_Tamiflu_immune_system.html

(Yes, another naturalnews link but they do put out a lot of good info )

Tamiflu is an antiviral drug your right its not a vaccine as such its used in the prevention and treatment of flu types A&B its supposed to block the virus spreading from cell to cell Im not so sure it does what it says on the tin though.
Yeah it is reported to have some really bad side effects, neuropsychiatric ones at that, it was most widely used in Japan until they banned it, something like 30 million people have taken Tamiflu in Japan. That study they carried out on those kids found that 54% of them were more likely to exhibit abnormal behaviour patterns after taking Tamiflu including self harm, delirium and hallucinations.

So they were offered a jab of some sort wonder what it was, maybe it was just the normal seasonal flu jab unless they have a H1N1 vaccine that only they know about. If your talking to your m8 anytime soon maybe you could ask him/her if they know exactly what was in the shot.

Very interesting flu remedy using black elderberries don’t suppose you have tried it yourself does it work? Did a little research about the sambucas nigra shrub/small tree ( an trom) and found that its a native Irish elder linked through growth, legend & medicine. You can use the leaves of it as a natural insect repellant to. Im going to try this remedy out and if it works maybe find a spot in the backgarden and plant me a little elderberry tree apparently they don’t grow to big so it might be an idea.
http://www.gardenplansireland.com/forum/about1089.html

derry

briktop wrote: »

well, lets see, when it all kicks off,
( ands its obviously going to kick off come winter )
i will be taking nothing in vaccine form
i will take my chances with being very fit and healthy .


anyone care to wager a bottle of something nice on it , ie if a global pandemic hits ireland - who will still be standing - vaccine takers or non takers ?

lets say by this time next year .

Before you bet you should look this one which says this virus is vaccine proof as it has fast mutation rates

http://info-wars.org/?p=3129

or

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNS0Q-uxycA&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Finfo-wars.org%2F%3Fp%3D3129&feature=player_embedded


or

Derry

WakeUp

Irish government has order 7.7 million doses of swine flu vaccine.

http://www.independent.ie/health/latest-news/state-planning-to-stockpile-swine-flu-vaccine-1777618.html

su_dios

Wow I can't actually believe the ****e I just read in this thread. So how many tin-foil hats do you have among you?

Yeah like I mean it all makes so much sense.. create a man-made disease that will further destroy countries economies and kill large numbers of people inc. children then manufacture a 'vaccine' that will further kill off the population. :eek:

I hope they don't let people like you guys set foot outside your front doors.

6th

su_dios infracted. Please take a few moments to read the Charter at the top of this Forum.