Buying Trouble? opinions please...

SourKraut

Hello

I'm looking for an opinion on this van here

http://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/showDetails.html?lang=de&id=84157911&pageNumber=1&scopeId=MH&sortOption.sortBy=price.consumerGrossEuro&sortOption.sortOrder=ASCENDING&makeModelVariant1.makeId=8800&makeModelVariant1.searchInFreetext=false&makeModelVariant2.searchInFreetext=false&makeModelVariant3.searchInFreetext=false&vehicleCategory=Motorhome&segment=Motorhome&fuel=DIESEL&minPrice=4000&maxPrice=8001&ambitCountry=DE&zipcode=50968&zipcodeRadius=50&siteId=GERMANY&negativeFeatures=EXPORT&damageUnrepaired=NO_DAMAGE_UNREPAIRED&export=NO_EXPORT&customerIdsAsString=&tabNumber=1

Listed at 4,888 as a 'bargaining price' means i might get it for 4500. It seems very cheap for a campervan of this size. So am I buying into a whole load of trouble with a campervan of this age?

I'd happily spend a grand or so straight after purchase to get it well serviced, change the timing belt, brake pads etc.

Still, if anyone has any words of wisdom. I'd love to hear them. The main reason I like to look of it is that is seems clean, will sleep the family in comfort, and is over 3 ton so I won't pay VRT bringing it back to Ireland.

Thanks

muint

SourKraut
The van is not over 3 ton weight - 3100 is the weight it's allowed to carry. For a van to be over 3 tons you would looking at something at least 6 berth and 6 metres or longer so you would be looking at a further expense when clearing it in this case. Might not be much though.

SourKraut

Aaaah, good point. I thought this was the 'empty weight'

I'll be sure to check that part out better.

muint

When viewing any van look out for smells as in "damp". Reminds me of the smell of dirty dogs :eek:
Look for signs of water leaks / staining around the joinings inside and in the bathroom.

zagmund

We have a '93 version of that van (well a different layout internally, but pretty similar) and while it was in for a bit of a fix up recently, the guy in the garage said that parts for these are getting harder and harder to get these days, so bear that in mind.

As I understand it, the Ducato used to be like the Ford Cortina of the light commercial world - there were loads of them on the road and getting spare parts was never a problem. Unfortunately this is not the case anymore for this specific model. In your case it's over 20 years old. The van has done over 200,000 KMs - this is a lot in my books.

Personally, I would be wary of buying something that old with that many miles on the clock. On the positive side, German vehicles have to undergo the TUV (like the NCT, only a real test and not just a money making racket) every 2 years so it is likely to be in better nick than an Irish vehicle of that age.

z

bijapos

The price is OK I think, although it is the pre-facelift model, wouldnt worry too much about the mileage if the engine is OK. Most people who have these drive fairly long distances on the continent but its usually a lot on motorways. Got a camper in Germany a few months ago with 207,000km, uses no oil, starts first time etc.

Calculate about €1300 for VRT, the TUV is a year old so you might need an engineers report here for the insurance company, costs €85 plus whatever repairs might need to be done. Also fly over, export plates and drive/ferry back and it could be in Ireland on the road for €6500, maybe more. I suppose you could take a holiday while you are over there, there is no problem driving around with the German export plates in other Euro countries.

*Kol*

For the money I wouls say that's a good deal if it is in reasonable shape when you see it. Really as long as it keeps driving with no problems you will get the value out of it in the next few years.

SourKraut

I live in Germany, hence the daft username. This is a purchase before moving back - and yes I know I should have bought it six months ago and paid no VRT... but I didn't I wonder what would happen if I kept it registered with the german plates after moving home?

Anyway, I went to see it today. It's not being used at the moment, a bit dirty outside, but clean inside, and no smell of damp. Started first time, and while it was a bit agricultural to drive (no power steering) it ran fine. It also has a few extras like the awning, bike rack etc. No seat belts in the back though, i'd have to put them in for the kids.

I'm going to try and get it for less than 4500. If he'll go as low as 4250 I'll take it for sure.

aerosol

If the max load is only 3100kg this might not give you much more than 300kg payload,not much for a family and all your stuff.....

It looks like a good van for the money but for me I'd be checking the empty weight and doing some sums before buying:)

zagmund

Don't bank in getting seatbelts retro-fitted, or at least not in Ireland.

We tried and couldn't find anyone who would/could do it. I'm pretty sure that I've seen occasional posts here from people looking to get belts fitted and I don't think I have seen anyone come up with anyone that can do it. It may well be easier in Germany, but don't bank on it here.

z

*Kol*

You should check to see if there is any secure structure to fit the belts. Otherwise there will be a bit of engineering involved. Nothing you couldn't get copied from a MH that has belts fitted though.

peasant

for fitting belts you could buy this:
http://www.reimo.com/de/59560-3_punkt_gurtbock_b99_x_t56_cm/

while you're still in Germany ...at least it'll save you paying the freight

SourKraut

Woah, 690 euros just for the block to hold the seatbelts? that changes things a wee bit

Cheers for heads up, in my innocence I was just planning to bolt a couple of seat belts on to the fixed board at the back of the forward-facing seat.

I've also been thinking about that 1.9 litre engine, dragging around a 2.5-3 ton weight for over 200,000 kms... I've nothing againt high mileage per se, my own car here has done 226,000, but I've a feeling that the engine in that thing has had a lot of work to do in the last 20 years.

thanks again for the help. nice forum this!

SourKraut

http://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/details.html?lang=de&id=117265850&origin=PARK&pageNumber=1&tabNumber=1


this one looks a much better buy... has the rear seat belts, MUCH lower mileage, power steering. Would be worth paying an extra 1500-2000 euros I reckon.

peasant

However, this bit:

Verkauf nur an Händler, Export oder ohne jede Garantie und ohne jede Sachmängelhaftung.

means that they're completely washing their hands of any warranty and/or issues that the vehicle may have.

Fair enough, you can't really put a warranty on something that's 20 years old ...but ... in Germany when a trader sells something to a private buyer, the goods are supposed to be free of (hidden) defects and fit for purpose and you have the right to return them (and get your money back) if that is not the case.

By advertising this vehicle for "trade/export only" they're trying to circumvent that law which would lead to the suspiscion that they KNOW that there is something wrong with the vehicle. (and probably won't disclose what it is)


Be very, very careful and only buy if you're absolutely sure that there is nothing wrong with it (or whatever IS wrong with it has been disclosed to you and you're happy to accept it / fix it)

SourKraut

ah, jaysus

i suppose this is what you get when you are on a small budget..

I'd noticed that of course, I took it that it was the sort of thing that everyone puts on ebay ads here as well now. Differnce being, that's usually private sellers.

I'll suss it out.

peasant

Also consider this
http://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/showDetails.html?id=114686543&__lp=6&scopeId=MH&sortOption.sortBy=price.consumerGrossEuro&sortOption.sortOrder=ASCENDING&makeModelVariant1.searchInFreetext=false&makeModelVariant2.searchInFreetext=false&makeModelVariant3.searchInFreetext=false&vehicleCategory=Motorhome&segment=Motorhome&minPrice=4000&maxPrice=7001&ambitCountry=DE&zipcode=53498&zipcodeRadius=200&siteId=GERMANY&negativeFeatures=EXPORT&damageUnrepaired=NO_DAMAGE_UNREPAIRED&export=NO_EXPORT&customerIdsAsString=&category=Alcoves&lang=de&pageNumber=5
or similar vehicles with the 92/95 PS turbo diesel.
While the TD isn't really that much faster in end speed, the turbo really helps with getting a move-on in twisty and hilly conditions

SourKraut

Looks nice, even though I prefer the other layout.

He's not willing to budge on price though, the other fella will go to 6k i reckon. Tough decisions to be made. And I'll only ever know with hindsight whether it was the right choice! I suppose there's an element of risk to buying and old vehicle like this one way or another. Even with a warranty, the thing going kaput when I've driven it to the Algarve is going to be a huge hassle.

peasant

Buying on a budget can be done, but you'll have to put the legwork in and look at a few vans, be disciplined and not buy the first one you see and be prepared to kiss a few frogs before you meet your prince.

SourKraut

So, I bought me a camper

I ended up buying a 92 2.5D (not turbo) Hymer Camp 55, Ducato based, with 133k kms on it. So far so good, few little things to iron out but I'm happy enough with it. It's been well looked after which is the main thing, I reckon. Funny, I never really liked the alcove type camper, I always wanted an integrated Hymer. But the convenience of that space up there will be great I think.

Leaving Cologne on Wednesday, heading South..

Cheers to all who gave advice and moral support!

zagmund

We have a '93 Camp 55, but ours is a turbo - goes right up to 100km/h so it does. Downhill, with a tail wind, etc . . . Seriously, it gets us where we want to go, when we want to get there but I would probably take the Porsche out for a spin if I was in a hurry to get somewhere.

I don't know if there's anything you need clarified or explained but if my last 5 years are anything to go by you will still be finding out strange things for a good while as you get to know your van. Let me know if you have any questions and good luck with the van.

z

p.s. the boss always wanted an A class also, with the swish drop down bed, etc . . . but she has now decided that the huge amount of storage space in the alcove was well worth it. You can lash all sorts of stuff up there - duvets, clothes, food, books, laptop, etc . . . with all the heavy stuff put off to one side and wedged in with all the spare duvets and fluffy stuff so it can't come flying down and decapitate the people in the back. Try doing that with a swish drop down bed . . .

3ps

Well done on getting a van! Just on a safety note my van has an alcove with a barrier that you can put up. I once drove and forgot to put the barrier up and things fell down nearly killing, or at the very least severely injuring my children.

I would advise everybody to secure anything that is stored up there. In an accident the forces could come from any direction and will be tremendous. Wedging things in with duvets etc won't work.