European Challenge cup pools

d-gal

TBA on Monday

European Challenge Cup 2009/10 Teams and Tiers

TIER 1: London Wasps, Saracens, Bourgoin, Worcester Warriors, Newcastle Falcons

TIER 2: Castres Olympique, Leeds Carnegie , Rugby Calvisano, Connacht Rugby, Montauban

TIER 3: Montpellier, Overmach Rugby Parma, Bayonne, Petrarca Rugby, Toulon

TIER 4 : Rugby Rovigo, Racing-Metro 92, Albi , Bucuresti Oaks, Invite team 2 (Spain/Portugual (TBC)

Connacht could get Wasps and Toulon! :eek: who needs the Heineken Cup :pac::pac:

Stev_o

ECC trying to remove English dominance in the competition

Digifriendly

d-gal wrote: »

TBA on Monday

European Challenge Cup 2009/10 Teams and Tiers

TIER 1: London Wasps, Saracens, Bourgoin, Worcester Warriors, Newcastle Falcons

TIER 2: Castres Olympique, Leeds Carnegie , Rugby Calvisano, Connacht Rugby, Montauban

TIER 3: Montpellier, Overmach Rugby Parma, Bayonne, Petrarca Rugby, Toulon

TIER 4 : Rugby Rovigo, Racing-Metro 92, Albi , Bucuresti Oaks, Invite team 2 (Spain/Portugual (TBC)

Connacht could get Wasps and Toulon! :eek: who needs the Heineken Cup :pac::pac:

Do Top 2 in each group go through automatically?Weren't there 5 pools last season?

Podge_irl

They are the tiers the pools will be selected from, not the pools themselves.

Zzippy

Digifriendly wrote: »

Do Top 2 in each group go through automatically?Weren't there 5 pools last season?

IIRC its the winner of each group plus the best 3 runners-up to make 8 quarter-finalists.

[Jackass]

Podge_irl wrote: »

They are the tiers the pools will be selected from, not the pools themselves.

D'oh! I thought it was the groups also!

Was actually thinking that it was a very good draw for Connacht!! haha

That competition is VERY winnable. I can't see anyone getting close to Wasps, but this is something I'd LOVE to see Connacht win and depending on Wasps imploding, I don't think there's any team in that cup Connacht couldn't beat. Or at least there shouldn't be.

To Connacht fans: Would this be equivalent of winning Heineken Cup for you guys as Heineken Cup is for Leinster or Munster fans?

Would it bring equal joy? Or are you holding out for the day (you never know) Connacht lift the Heineken Cup?

Which would feel better to win also, Challenge cup or Magners league?

Just trying to gage the interest in it. I think if I was a Connacht fan, this would be my Heineken Cup and I would be immensely proud to win it. Would probably enjoy it more than the Magners, although we seem to have a fixation on European rugby in this country.

GymJim

d-gal wrote: »

TBA on Monday

European Challenge Cup 2009/10 Teams and Tiers

TIER 1: London Wasps, Saracens, Bourgoin, Worcester Warriors, Newcastle Falcons

TIER 2: Castres Olympique, Leeds Carnegie , Rugby Calvisano, Connacht Rugby, Montauban

TIER 3: Montpellier, Overmach Rugby Parma, Bayonne, Petrarca Rugby, Toulon

TIER 4 : Rugby Rovigo, Racing-Metro 92, Albi , Bucuresti Oaks, Invite team 2 (Spain/Portugual (TBC)

Connacht could get Wasps and Toulon! :eek: who needs the Heineken Cup :pac::pac:

Worst Case scenario:

Wasps
Connacht
Toulon
Racing Metro (mehrtens, bobo, chabal, nallet, frans steyn)

Best Case Scenario:

Worcester
Connacht
Parma
Spain/Portuguese team.

If they do get the first group I really fear for the lads in Connacht. All these are sides full of Marquee players who won't let up...could potentially be talking 6 games with over 50 points nailed on. Connacht could go a long way backwards from any recent improvements. SCARY!

bigbadben

GymJim wrote: »

Worst Case scenario:

Wasps
Connacht
Toulon
Racing Metro (mehrtens, bobo, chabal, nallet, frans steyn)

Best Case Scenario:

Worcester
Connacht
Parma
Spain/Portuguese team.

If they do get the first group I really fear for the lads in Connacht. All these are sides full of Marquee players who won't let up...could potentially be talking 6 games with over 50 points nailed on. Connacht could go a long way backwards from any recent improvements. SCARY!

Toulon and Racing wont give a crap about this tournie, you're almost guarnateed to face their second/third choice players.

Zzippy

[Jackass] wrote: »

To Connacht fans: Would this be equivalent of winning Heineken Cup for you guys as Heineken Cup is for Leinster or Munster fans?

Personally speaking no - sure, it would be great to win something, but its not a huge competition. The main joy would be in qualifying for the HC through winning it.

[Jackass] wrote: »

Would it bring equal joy? Or are you holding out for the day (you never know) Connacht lift the Heineken Cup?

We're holding out for the day we actually get to play in the Heineken Cup, never mind win it!

[Jackass] wrote: »

Which would feel better to win also, Challenge cup or Magners league?

For me, Magners League - its a far better competition with better teams than most of those in the Challenge Cup, plus it probably mean beating the other 3 provinces...

[Jackass] wrote: »

Just trying to gage the interest in it. I think if I was a Connacht fan, this would be my Heineken Cup and I would be immensely proud to win it. Would probably enjoy it more than the Magners, although we seem to have a fixation on European rugby in this country.

Thats because the Heineken Cup is a bigger and more prestigious competition than the Magners League. Winning the ML makes you the best league team in the Celtic Nations, winning the HEC essentially crowns you the best club team in the Northern Hemisphere.

Ya I think we have to get at least 1 french team

Worcester
Padova
Albi

That would be the perfect group.If we could get that pool it would give us a chance of a home q/f which is our only hope of advancing in this competition.Finishing as a best runner up means away q/f against the likes of wasps,saracens etc.

Hennybug

Does anyone know what time the draw is on? The website doesn't give this information

thomond2006

To be honest, Connacht would get a good draw with either Newcastle or Worcester.

Newcastle are losing all their best players at the moment. Their 3 fly-halves are all gone: JW, May and Clegg.

Draw

Pool 1 Bourgoin, Leeds, Overmach Parma, Bucharest

Pool 2 Worcester, Connacht, Montpellier, Olympus Rugby XV Madrid

Pool 3 Saracens, Castres, Toulon, Rovigo

Pool 4. Wasps, Bayonne, Calvisano, Racing Metro 92

Pool 5 Newcastle, Montauban, Petrarca, Albi.

thomond2006

Borders no.2 wrote: »

Draw

Pool 1 Bourgoin, Leeds, Overmach Parma, Bucharest

Pool 2 Worcester, Connacht, Montpellier, Olympus Rugby XV Madrid

Pool 3 Saracens, Castres, Toulon, Rovigo

Pool 4. Wasps, Bayonne, Calvisano, Racing Metro 92

Pool 5 Newcastle, Montauban, Petrarca, Albi.

Great draw for Connacht imo.

Who knows how Montpellier will treat this competition? If they send weakened sides, Connacht could finish top.

Robbo

Not a bad group. Might fancy a trip to Madrid.

Pool 3 looks tasty and I still can't see past Wasps winning it.

Read this piece from the Erc site throws everything into a different light:

Heineken teams to feature in European Challenge Cup quarters
15 June 2009, 3:56 pm

The Heineken Cup and European Challenge Cup tournaments from next season (2009/10) will see a number of format and qualification changes that are aimed at enhancing the profile and stature of European club rugby's two showpiece tournaments.
The changes follow the completion of a comprehensive Strategic Review process which included ERC’s stakeholder Unions, Leagues, Club bodies and Clubs and aimed at mapping out the future development of European club rugby.

Among the results of the process was a renewed commitment from all ERC’s constituent bodies to the development of the European Challenge Cup tournament as an essential element of European rugby delivering competitive and attractive matches for players, clubs, supporters and commercial partners.

The changes include:
* Three Heineken Cup teams to qualify for the knock-out stages of the European Challenge Cup
* Revised ERC European Ranking from the European Challenge Cup
* Heineken Cup qualification changes

EUROPEAN CHALLENGE CUP
The knock-out stages of future European Challenge Cup tournaments will now include three teams who will qualify through the Heineken Cup.

The introduction of three teams who have finished as Pool runners-up in that seasons’ Heineken Cup (the third, fourth and fifth ranked Heineken Cup Pool runners-up), to meet the five European Challenge Cup Pool winners, will enhance both the quality and profile of the European Challenge Cup knock-out matches.

The top four European Challenge Cup Pool winners will enjoy home advantage in the quarter-finals with the top Pool winner playing the 5th, while the other three Pool winners will welcome the Heineken Cup sides.

Quarter-finalists
1 ECC 1 (Top ranked ECC Pool winner)
2 ECC 2 (Second ranked ECC Pool winner)
3 ECC 3 (Third ranked ECC Pool winner)
4 ECC 4 (Fourth ranked ECC Pool winner)
5 Heineken Cup 1
6 Heineken Cup 2
7 Heineken Cup 3
8 ECC 5 (Fifth Ranked ECC Pool winner)

Quarter-final Pairings
1 (ECC 1) v 8 (ECC 5)
2 (ECC 2) v 7 (Heineken Cup 3)
3 (ECC 3) v 6 (Heineken Cup 2)
4 (ECC 4) v 5 (Heineken Cup 1)
European Challenge Cup Semi-final Pairings
Winner of ECC 1 v ECC 5 quarter-final v winner of first quarter-final drawn
Winner of second quarter-final drawn v winner of third quarter-final drawn

European Challenge Cup teams to have home advantage, otherwise home advantage decided by draw

ERC European Ranking points
The ERC European Ranking Points available for teams in European Challenge Cup knock-out stages have also been revised with the maximum points now available for the winner increased from five points to six.

HEINEKEN CUP QUALIFICATION
Another significant boost for the tournament sees the winner of the European Challenge Cup, who will continue to qualify for the following season’s Heineken Cup, also earn an additional Heineken Cup spot for the country of the winner.

From the 2009/10 season both the Heineken Cup and European Challenge Cup winners will qualify automatically for the following season’s Heineken Cup and will each earn an extra Heineken Cup spot for their countries – over and above their guaranteed allocations.

However, England and France, who have six automatic places, will only be allowed a maximum of seven teams, so if either country wins both the Heineken Cup and European Challenge Cup the second additional spot will pass on to the club with the highest ERC European Ranking who has not already qualified from any of the other five nations.

The changes mean that the Italian / Celtic League 24th Place Play-Off is no longer required and the extra place earned by England this year, which was available to the most successful nation from England, France or Italy, is also no longer applicable.
Teams will continue to qualify through their domestic tournaments with each nation having the following number of automatic places:
England and France – 6 each
Wales and Ireland – 3 each
Scotland and Italy – 2 each

The 23rd and 24th Heineken Cup places will go to the nation(s) of the Heineken Cup and European Challenge Cup winners, with England and France capped on a maximum of seven teams each.

2040

So if these rules had been in operation last season Connacht would be in the Heineken Cup? Interesting.

thomond2006

Borders no.2 wrote: »

From the 2009/10 season both the Heineken Cup and European Challenge Cup winners will qualify automatically for the following season’s Heineken Cup and will each earn an extra Heineken Cup spot for their countries – over and above their guaranteed allocations.

Hey little shyte et al, this is the best news all you Connacht fans will hear this season.

If Munster, Leinster or Ulster win the HEC this year, Connacht will qualify for the Heineken Cup the following season!

You're dead right 2040, if this had been in operation in the last 2 seasons, Connacht would be in the HEC.

HUZZAH!!!

Hennybug

Fantastic - looking forward to a trips to Madrid and Montpellier!

[Jackass]

That's about as good a draw as Connacht could have expected.

Also, regarding the rule changes, absolutely delighted. I always thought Heineken Cup group losers should move into Challenge cup to make it far more competetive and increase the importance and stature, the Uefa cup of rugby, teams will still see it as valid oppertunity silverware if they have failed elsewhere already or if a team aspires to Heineken Cup rugby the following season.

Also delighted for Connacht that if Leinster, Munster or Ulster get their hands on the trophy again then Connacht will join the party!!

The ONLY problem i still have is the dedicated union qualifications rather than league qualifications, but this is one massive step closer to the ultimate goal and now only other real obsticle remaining, the eventual (and it's on it's way) re-organisation of European qualification where the league will determine who plays in Europe from Magners regardless of nation, top 6 finish only qualify, with the places being spread evenly amongst the 3 European leagues (when the Italian competition will more or less be abolished), and Magners will hold same importance as GP or T14 does in both silverware, competetiveness and Euro qualification.

It's the dream. And it's no more than 2 or 3 seasons away now (as the introduction of Italy to Magners makes the European qualification unsustainable and the logical solution is to re-organise it evenly between the leagues...11 of 12 teams going into the premier competition in Europe while only 6 from 12 go from another league and only 7 from 14 go from another league...)

Would LOVE an Irish (Leinster ) team to retain the trophy this season and get Connacht in on the act.

[EDIT] Oh, and I would like to announce now, that Ospreys will be challenge cup winners this season. You wait and see! Calling it nice and early!! Might try and find somewhere to put a wager on it.

Zzippy

Hmm, a trip to Madrid may be added to the diary now...

And now we have even more reasons to cheer Leinster/Munster/Ulster in Europe - hopefully this year we won't need them to win the HC for us to qualify though, would be great to qualify by right, but we'll take it any way we can!

toomevara

Looking good for Leeds, Overmach and Bucharesti....hmmmm....

thomond2006

Has Little Shyte disappeared?

I can't find him on the members list.

Zzippy

Borders no.2 wrote: »

Draw

Pool 1 Bourgoin, Leeds, Overmach Parma, Bucharest

Pool 2 Worcester, Connacht, Montpellier, Olympus Rugby XV Madrid

Pool 3 Saracens, Castres, Toulon, Rovigo

Pool 4. Wasps, Bayonne, Calvisano, Racing Metro 92

Pool 5 Newcastle, Montauban, Petrarca, Albi.

Robbo wrote: »

Not a bad group. Might fancy a trip to Madrid.

Pool 3 looks tasty and I still can't see past Wasps winning it.

Pool 3 you say? Care to put a wager on that...?

Diabhal Beag

This year is not looking too shabby for Connacht. Delighted to hear that we could be in next years Heineken Cup even if we play **** (Which is not impossible by any stretch of the imagination ).

It would certainly help out the Irish Rugby scene in my opinion and we could see better attendances.

The pool isn't too bad either.