Lied on job application

PK2008

Im 15 years in the work force, have a bachelors degree and a masters degree plus numerous professional qualifications.

I recently applied for a job for which Im probably slightly overqualified and was shortlisted for selection.

I was going through the normal hurdles in the selection process when I was in for an interview with HR to speak about my qualifications, went on for a while until they asked me about my Leaving Cert. Its been so long that I honestly couldnt remember but i thought it was 4 honours and 3 passes.

Anyway I was wrong, they werent as good as that and now they have me down on file as saying the wrong grades- I wouldnt mind but the job requires qualifactions way beyond the LC, which I have.

Im in a pickle now as they want to see all my qualifications- no problem for my degree's and professional quals at all - just the bloody LC.

What should i do? Confess I made a mistake and hope they dont mind or send in my quals and just omit my LC in the hope they dont notice/care?

EDIT: I should say that Ive already signed one of those things where you say all the information you have submitted is the truth etc, so now im worried Im going to look like a liar/fraud

jhegarty

Was it on the application or the interview you made the mistake ?

CiaranC

PK2008 wrote: »

Im in a pickle now as they want to see all my qualifications- no problem for my degree's and professional quals at all - just the bloody LC.

What should i do? Confess I made a mistake and hope they dont mind or send in my quals and just omit my LC in the hope they dont notice/care?

They dont want your leaving cert results, relax. Who even has a copy of their leaving cert results anyway?

PK2008

jhegarty wrote: »

Was it on the application or the interview you made the mistake ?

See the application was online and it didnt have a section for the leaving cert but when i went for the interview the interviewer had application form that they filled out (which went over most of what i had already filled out online) and I signed it at the end.

I should have just said I couldnt remember

PK2008

CiaranC wrote: »

PK2008 wrote: »

Im in a pickle now as they want to see all my qualifications- no problem for my degree's and professional quals at all - just the bloody LC.

What should i do? Confess I made a mistake and hope they dont mind or send in my quals and just omit my LC in the hope they dont notice/care?

They dont want your leaving cert results, relax. Who even has a copy of their leaving cert results anyway?

It actually took me weeks to find it, plus its so aged its almost unreadable even if i did send it to them

helimachoptor

OP, if you have BSc and a MSc I doubt you'll need it, I mean if you have both of those your at least 6 years out of school, I'm presuming from your post your probably a lot more than that. I lost interest in my LC results as soon as I realised I got accepted to college.

Just send in your transcipts for your degrees.

If they question your LC just send that in, if they say anything say "its been xx number of years since my LC and I couldnt really remember"

keefg

Just tell them it was a genuine error on your part and hope for the best.

Anyway, who gives a monkeys about LC grades for someone who left school 15 years ago?

I'd be more interested in the persons ability and experience.

PK2008

Yeh, maybe Im just being paranoid- I mean everything else is bang on- just that mistake which i reckon is insignificant, just worried they might think I was trying to bull5hit them and therefore would be untrustworthy

I may be overthinking this

doolox

The LC is only a passport to a Uni course. The only thing I could think of as a restriction is a pass maths where an honours maths level is required but if you have the required degrees already this would be moot.
I did not mention my LC on my CV as it was back in the geologically distant past way back in 1976.......officially now part of history.
My experience and post Leaving quals and stuff are more important.
Keep transcripts and certs and get syllabi for each, 1 A4 page will suffice so that people will know what is covered by your degree/s.

Also get transcripts of all courses done at work, if possible demand and get external certification for all skills and areas of knowledge covered, ECDL , IPC etc so that external employers will know the standard of your training.

I had used and studied logic analysers for at least 2 years in the distant past and had forgotten about it. It formed a vital part of a recent job interview and I nearly missed out telling the hiring people about it and could have been looked over only one of the interviewers reminded me of it and asked me a few questions about them. Document and record all your work experiences in a systematic and thorough manner. Time will pass and you will forget otherwise.......

Black Swan

PK2008 wrote: »

I may be overthinking this

Indeed. With your two degrees and experience, LC is insignificant.

TJJP

I don't get the LC fixation. Had an interview a year or so back with 10 mins or so spent on my LC results. Got an offer but didn't bother with them as I was a bit peeved that the LC seemed so important. Jees, we have all passed a lot of water since then. I'm well past a crap LC at this stage.

I'd play it straight with them. I know this is a bit odd given the times that are in it, but if the Leaving is so important to them do you really want to work there?

PK2008

Blue_Lagoon wrote: »

Indeed. With your two degrees and experience, LC is insignificant.

I think you're right, so should I just not bother sending it in?

jhegarty

Blue_Lagoon wrote: »

Indeed. With your two degrees and experience, LC is insignificant.

Lc is insignificant , but lying on the application is very significant.

PK2008

jhegarty wrote: »

Lc is insignificant , but lying on the application is very significant.

See thats what im worried about

I dont care about my LC, its more about whether or not they think I tried to mislead them that im worried about

If I dont send it in and they ask for it, that will look dodgy

If i do send it in, it could look dodgy aswell

I could ring them and explain and hope they understand but not sure if Im just overthinking this or not

TJJP

Bit of over thinking perhaps. It can't be that important, I sure can't remember mine other than that it was poor. I'd send it in with a covering phonecall. You couldn't remember, who could really (unless you got 7 A's!). You're human, you can cope in a crisis... turn your stumbling blocks into stepping stones.. impress them with your recovery.

Black Swan

PK2008 wrote: »

I think you're right, so should I just not bother sending it in?

That's what I would do. Omit the document. After all, how many people still have one after 15 years?

jhegarty wrote: »

Lc is insignificant , but lying on the application is very significant.

Everyone fudges on their apps. If not specifically, then to generally place themselves in the best light, emphasizing what will make them a more desirable candidate. Experienced HR people know this, and therefore try to confirm what's important to the job vacancy they are trying to fill. The LC is not important to the professional position the OP is filling, but the degrees and experience are. The OP should supply what's important (degrees and verification of experience), and treat the LC document as if lost after 15 years.

This is not to say that he cannot learn from this experience, in order to avoid these mistakes in the future. But to draw attention to the LC error can be a needless gamebreaker during the economic meltdown.

The solution offered is a practical one, not one to be used in a debate on the integrity of the job applicant. Certainly, integrity is important, and he should learn from this experience, so that it is not repeated in the future.

jhegarty

Blue_Lagoon wrote: »

Everyone fudges on their apps. If not specifically, then to generally place themselves in the best light, emphasizing what will make them a more desirable candidate. Experienced HR people know this, and therefore try to confirm what's important to the job vacancy they are trying to fill. The LC is not important to the professional position the OP is filling, but the degrees and experience are. The OP should supply what's important (degrees and verification of experience), and treat the LC document as if lost after 15 years.

This is not to say that he cannot learn from this experience, in order to avoid these mistakes in the future. But to draw attention to the LC error can be a needless gamebreaker during the economic meltdown.

Sorry , this is not correct.

If someone lies (this is very different to fudging , this is a fact that is wrong) then CV will be in the bin.

PK2008

jhegarty wrote: »

Sorry , this is not correct.

If someone lies (this is very different to fudging , this is a fact that is wrong) then CV will be in the bin.

For the record i absolutely hate lies and have never done anything like this before- what do you think i should do though?

jhegarty

PK2008 wrote: »

For the record i absolutely hate lies and have never done anything like this before- what do you think i should do though?

Sorry , I honestly don't know what to advise.

I see 3 options all with a downside.

1) "Forget" to send in Lc results
Downside is if they notice and request them they will already think something is up , and when they spot the issue assume you lied from the start.

On the other hand if they don't case about lc results you get away with it.

2) Send in Lc results, saying nothing about the issue
If they notice you are screwed , but more chance they will see it as a honest mistake than 1.


3) Send in Lc results with cover note explaining issue
This points out the problem to them , but on the other hand shows you are been honest.


I really see 1 and 2 as your options. Which one is correct really depends on how carefully the company checks everything.

Black Swan

jhegarty wrote: »

Sorry , this is not correct.

Well, boards is full of opinions, and the OP has asked for them. The OP ultimately has to make his own decision, and we cannot be responsible for that decision. It's his, and his alone.

I've had a similar discussion awhile back regarding CV/resume background checking with personal friend who is a Sr VP of HR corporate at a Fortune 50 corporation, where the high school diploma in the States is never checked (equivalent to LC), if they are recruiting for a professional degreed position that is not entry level. Degrees are verified by transcripts sent from the awarding institution, and job experience is checked by conferring with past employers.

PK2008

jhegarty wrote: »

Sorry , I honestly don't know what to advise.

I see 3 options all with a downside.

1) "Forget" to send in Lc results
Downside is if they notice and request them they will already think something is up , and when they spot the issue assume you lied from the start.

On the other hand if they don't case about lc results you get away with it.

2) Send in Lc results, saying nothing about the issue
If they notice you are screwed , but more chance they will see it as a honest mistake than 1.


3) Send in Lc results with cover note explaining issue
This points out the problem to them , but on the other hand shows you are been honest.


I really see 1 and 2 as your options. Which one is correct really depends on how carefully the company checks everything.

I reckon im screwed tbh, I just have that feeling

Live and learn I suppose

Black Swan

Parting comment to the OP... Not only learn from this experience, so that it will not be repeated, but also remember a quote from WWII: "Loose lips sink ships!" Do not share this story with people who know you personally. If you get the job and it somehow gets back to your new employer, you are toast!

PK2008

Blue_Lagoon wrote: »

Parting comment to the OP... Not only learn from this experience, so that it will not be repeated, but also remember a quote from WWII: "Loose lips sink ships!" Do not share this story with people who know you personally. If you get the job and it somehow gets back to your new employer, you are toast!

I always knew that f**king LC would come back to haunt me

Should have listened to me mother!!!

pickarooney

Send a note with the degrees saying you had a look around for your LC results but couldn't find them, they're probably back at your parents' house somewhere but you've not seen them (results, or parents, whichever) in years.

CiaranC

jhegarty wrote: »

Sorry , this is not correct.

If someone lies (this is very different to fudging , this is a fact that is wrong) then CV will be in the bin.

Rubbish, If you dont embellish your CV you are not doing it right

jbrst

On the opposite of all the "don't worry,they won't ask" posts, the same thing happened to me a couple of months ago. I have a BA and MA (and transcripts to prove both) but having done my LC years and years ago and thinking they wouldn't need to see my cert (which I lost years and years ago!) I put 'best guess' grades on the application form. They were a pretty good guess (X amount of Bs, X amount of Cs etc.) but I got them wrong in relation to the subjects. Never gave it a second thought.

I passed the interviews, and then had to come in to fill out all the new starter paperwork, including bringing in my educational certs. Out come the college degrees....great stuff, but where's my LC results? I was gobsmacked, I hadn't been asked for them since I got them in the early 90s! The HR manager said I couldn't start until I have proof of my results. I calmly explained that surely by virtue of having been to college I must have passed my LC satisfactorily and not having the cert was unfortunate but could maybe be overlooked......she would not budge. (I was aware that the grades I'd given probably weren't totally accurate).

So she sent me away to get a copy of my results, which I did for a few quid (they take forever to come by the way, much longer than they state on the website) but luckily for me in the intervening period she called to say they couldn't wait any longer and would make an 'extreme exception' for me not having the results on paper.

So in short, they may well ask - so be prepared for it. They might let you explain it away, they might not. If I were you I'd omit them when you're sending in your college scripts, then worry about it if/when they come back to you

Tom Dunne

Blue_Lagoon wrote: »

Indeed. With your two degrees and experience, LC is insignificant.

Not necessarily.

I recall a while back applying for an academic position and they wanted LC results. I have a BSc. and a 1st class honours MSc. and yet they still looked for the LC results. In the end, I didn't follow through with the application and got a similar position in another insitution.

My point being, depending on the job, it may actually be a reuqirement.

Here's what I would do, PK2008 - send in what you have and tell them you will have to dig out your LC results. They may overlook it.

Black Swan

This thread raises yet another question... The OP is interviewing for a professional position predicated upon experience, bachelor's and master's degrees as essential qualifications? With such advanced requirements, what organisation is going to insist upon LC results, which are obviously not even entry level for the professions? Would you really want to work for such an outfit that fails to recognize what's important when assessing position requirements?

PK2008

Blue_Lagoon wrote: »

This thread raises yet another question... The OP is interviewing for a professional position predicated upon experience, bachelor's and master's degrees as essential qualifications? With such advanced requirements, what organisation is going to insist upon LC results, which are obviously not even entry level for the professions? Would you really want to work for such an outfit that fails to recognize what's important when assessing position requirements?

Plus the interviewing process was no joke either- I had to do 6 hours of testing- psychometric, numeracy etc, which I passed before they would even speak to me.

Black Swan

Most interviewers and organisations don't have the slightest idea what they are doing when interviewing. I always laugh when I hear the interview question, "Where do you see yourself in 5 years if you get the job?" Like Duh! What do they expect you to say? How about this... "Well, I plan to take advantage of your training programme and resources, and after a year of so when your customers get to love me, I'll move to your competitor for better pay, taking your customers with me?" Or how about... "I'm really overqualified for this job, but I need to weather the recession before leaving you for a better job and pay?" You ask a stupid question, you deserve a stupid answer?;)

What are these jokers going to do with your psychometric results? Are they afraid you are a nut case and might go postal on them if they treat you badly? Or are they trying to establish team fit, which in most cases is a bunch of theoretical nonsense that was sold to them by the latest consultant spin or pulp book of the month in business.

gone2themoon

Having read this thread from the start, I really dont know what is the best advice to give in relation to disclosing your results or not, so sorry.

I can say however that currently it is definately an employers market and having received hundreds perhaps thousands of applications for one or a few positions they will be looking for ways to reduce the number of candidates.

If its a case of "you versus another guy" with similar experience (which is possible), they will be forced to look at other ways to differentiate between the two and unfortunately if he/she has LC results to Hand it will show that they are better prepaired for the interview, be their results, better or worse than yours.

Its a tough decission to make, best of luck.

maxwell smart

I have never asked anyone how they did in their leaving in an interview, especially where the job required a degree or qualification. Anyway, the LC is a very poor way to judge someone's competence for a position. It should be on their experience, their references and the interview gut feeling.
I did my LC about (my God just realised) 20 years ago, if someone asked for my results (as I have an MBA) I would get up from the interview and walk out.