tail docking

superfear

Hi all, i have a springer spanial in pup and was enquiring about docking. I was told by the vet that this is a very touchy subject at the moment and to just leave it. I will be keeping at least two of the pups and prob wont dock them at all. But i will sell the rest. If their tails are not docked will i have a problem selling them? And if i need them docked how should i go about it?

Many thanks

foxhunter

superfear wrote: »

Hi all, i have a springer spanial in pup and was enquiring about docking. I was told by the vet that this is a very touchy subject at the moment and to just leave it. I will be keeping at least two of the pups and prob wont dock them at all. But i will sell the rest. If their tails are not docked will i have a problem selling them? And if i need them docked how should i go about it?

Many thanks

I would be inclined to dock them for the simple reason that if they are working dogs and the tails are not docked they are prone to getting blasts of electric fences and damage from hunting in heavy cover.
I think it's more humane to have them docked and I personally wouldn't buy a pup unless it was.
Thats my opinion on it anyway.

superfear

no vet will do it and not sure what way the law lies if it was DIY

Double Barrel

Agree with Foxhunter.

It is inhumane to leave long tails on gundogs (ESS,GWP etc.) that spend most of their working life in the bushes and emerge with bloody stumps at the end of the day. Docking the tail eliminates the risk of injury and infection.

An imformative website on the subject.
www.cdb.org

"Since docking was banned in Sweden in 1989, there has been a massive increase in tail injuries amongst previously docked breeds. Within the 50 undocked Pointer litters registered in that year with the Swedish Kennel Club, 38% of dogs suffered tail injury before they were 18 months old and in 1991, the number of individuals with tail injures had increased to 51% of the group."

Double Barrel

It is NOT a do it yourself procedure.

Find a large animal DVM , in other words a country vet who deals with farmers on a regular basis.

jwshooter

how old are the pups ? i always do mine at a week and do them my self .
i do them in the morning and keep a eye on them all day.

there is very little blood and the pup general will keep feeding when you put it back with the bitch .

foxshooter243

I also agree with foxhunter, only for working dogs that will definitley be used for cover work though, if they are to be sold as pets then its not required imo. I dont agree with ear cropping or any other type of cosmetic work only tail docking for working breeds to save suffering further down the line, and i would and have docked several litters of working springers in my time, .

pullandbang

I've done my own dogs over the years except my last pup. He's a GSP and I left his tail the full length. So far he hasn't had any tail injuries although he has only had one season under his belt. I personally think the pointers look better with the long tail, especially when they set rigid with the tail out straight.
The Spaniels on the other hand should have the tail docked because of the long hair and the danger of cuts going unnoticed and becoming infected.

gentleman jim

the law for docking in the republic is that ONLY working dogs can have tails docked! alot of vets wont do it as it is frowned opon and they say it unethical!

Trojan911

I have a Jack Russell, not my choice but hey whatever keeps the brood happy, and we decided not to dock her tail as a pup as, 1) Wife would'nt have it and, 2) I wouldn't have her as a fulltime hunter out with me.

I will take her out on outing every now and then when she is a bit older for a bit of rabbit hunting etc.

In the meantime I must try to train her to stop chewing my shoes. Bitch is costing me a fortune.

superfear

Thanks for all the info, yes they will all be working dogs and are due today, In the next hour if im not mistaken. My vet is a country vet whom i even hunt with and wont do it. My father has been doing them all his life so might leave them in his trusty hands. its my 1st time breeding and the dog is such a great hunter id rather have a pup off her than buy again.

jwshooter

superfear wrote: »

Thanks for all the info, yes they will all be working dogs and are due today, In the next hour if im not mistaken. My vet is a country vet whom i even hunt with and wont do it. My father has been doing them all his life so might leave them in his trusty hands. its my 1st time breeding and the dog is such a great hunter id rather have a pup off her than buy again.

you never said how old the pups were

superfear

the 1st 3 pups just arrived.

cloudy day

superfear wrote: »

Thanks for all the info, yes they will all be working dogs and are due today, In the next hour if im not mistaken. My vet is a country vet whom i even hunt with and wont do it. My father has been doing them all his life so might leave them in his trusty hands. its my 1st time breeding and the dog is such a great hunter id rather have a pup off her than buy again.

How ya doing. You got better advice here I see, knew ya would.

I've seen pups done at 3 days, no ill effects or side effects from the minute they are done to the rest of their lives.

It's not illegal just vets are morally against in "mutalation" for looks. But now every joe with no clue is gonna do it themselves and what will happen to pup's when it goes wrong.

I know working dog's need to be done.

But can I ask ye, what do ye think on non-workers, boxers and the like. should it be banned, should I change my views.

Having grown up with country ways I find it frustrating to deal with the bunny huggers sometimes.

Vegeta

cloudy day wrote: »

But can I ask ye, what do ye think on non-workers, boxers and the like. should it be banned, should I change my views.
.

Personally I wouldn't touch a dog unless I knew it was going to be a worker, and even then a worker of thick cover. I have had springers and cockers and they've been docked because of the high risk that they will damage the tail continuously over their life time.

I have a setter and a lab at the minute and they both have their tails as there is no reason to dock them and they serve functional purposes too, lab uses it for swimming and setter uses it to indicate a point or set.

If I had a pet dog I would not dock.

cloudy day

I didn't think Lab's and Setter's were ever traditionally docked ? I'm aware Lab uses his for smimming and pointer for pointing. although I do see certain pointers with docked tails?

I personally don't like JRT and Boxer's with long tails. I suppose mostly cos It's about looks. But it does seem certain boxer's sustain injuries. I've not had one, mine are not kept in house, but I've heard it from other's who do.

homerhop

Had a pair of hunting springer's both within a month of each other in age. One was docked the other wasn't. Both were excellent hunting dogs. Not having his tail docked made no difference to his hunting ability in some very heavy cover that some smaller springer's thought hard of going through. I never had any problems with tails bleeding. Hunted them both for the best part of 14 years in conditions from beet to heavy bushes and ditches.
The only thing I ever found funny about it was the looks some "traditional" shooters would give until they seen him flush or retrieve during driven shoots.

superfear

the likes of boxers are a very proud looking dog, and i seen one with a long tail and the poor dog looked out of sorts, if i thought i would get more attention id cut my tail off
no but seriously if it doesnt hurt the dog, do it. some dogs look great with tails, some dogs dont.
thanks for the pointer cloudy day. didnt even reply in the other one. my eyes got sore

cloudy day

superfear wrote: »

the likes of boxers are a very proud looking dog, and i seen one with a long tail and the poor dog looked out of sorts, if i thought i would get more attention id cut my tail off
no but seriously if it doesnt hurt the dog, do it. some dogs look great with tails, some dogs dont.
thanks for the pointer cloudy day. didnt even reply in the other one. my eyes got sore

Oh god, tell me about it. some of the c*** they come out with jsut wrecks my head.

They seem to live just to be bitchy rather than being constructive.

I had to laugh when they put the shooting feral cats one on.

superfear

didn't even see that, as i said my eyes got sore from reading them, have to work sometimes

thelurcher

It is a DIY job - no need to go to a vet - but like anything you do need to be shown how to do it by someone first. Also it's very easy to balls up the length - better too long than too short.

Whatever you do don't cut them off - you don't take a scisors and cut through bone and all :rolleyes:

Have a look at this video -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euVo3idmIl4
Very little distress after the job is done as you can see. I get a friend to do mine still and they only give a squeak or two as you pinch but that's it.

The age you do it at is vital though as well -
Tail-Dock Facts

superfear

that was great info, really appreciate it

Dusty87

Wouldn chance it myself but thats some good info. Thanks.

Mellor

cloudy day wrote: »

I didn't think Lab's and Setter's were ever traditionally docked ? I'm aware Lab uses his for smimming and pointer for pointing. although I do see certain pointers with docked tails?

Some breeds of pointers have natural "docked" tails. The Britany (while its full name is Britany spanial, this was a mis-translation and its not a spanial) is closest imo to the Setter family. Some are born with docked tails, it has no effect on the ability to point or set. That said, I would never dock one of them either.

kokeeffe35

superfear wrote: »

Hi all, i have a springer spanial in pup and was enquiring about docking. I was told by the vet that this is a very touchy subject at the moment and to just leave it. I will be keeping at least two of the pups and prob wont dock them at all. But i will sell the rest. If their tails are not docked will i have a problem selling them? And if i need them docked how should i go about it?

Many thanks

docking was a silly fashion in the past. leave it in the past.

cavan shooter

Docking for fashion yes, I agree,

But having worked both un docked and docked springers, Damage to the tail can occurr and has occurred (with a dog of mine) in heavy cover, Briars in particular.

My sister has a springer that doesnt work and her tail (as in the dogs tail, not my sisters) isnt docked.

Springers are bulldozers in a ditch...when you see them work you can understand why people say dock the tail.

EPointer=Birdss

pullandbang wrote: »

I personally think the pointers look better with the long tail, especially when they set rigid with the tail out straight.
The Spaniels on the other hand should have the tail docked because of the long hair and the danger of cuts going unnoticed and becoming infected.

Couldn't agree more.

Have seen someone use the blue rubber bands for lamb tails on a litter of springers. Worked perfectly.
Tail just drops off as no blood gets too it. Sounds mean but they didn't seem distressed at all.

EPointer=Birdss

Trojan911 wrote: »

Bitch is costing me a fortune.

We still talking about the Jack Russel here! :D
Only kidding!