[Article] Metro North project questioned - report

IIMII

Metro North project questioned - report

BRIAN KAVANAGH, Irish Times
Wed, Jun 10, 2009
THE CONSTRUCTION of Dublin’s controversial Metro North rail system will not guarantee maximum accessibility to Dublin airport.
Moreover, it will not ensure the airport’s future as a vital travel hub, a new planning report argues.
A Spatial Vision for Dublin was published yesterday at the Stephen’s Green Hibernian Club, by members of the Dublin City Business Association, which commissioned the report, and author Hendrik van der Kamp.
Although Metro North has been touted by the Government as central to Dublin’s economic development, speculation intensified at the beginning of the year that the project would be shelved due to an estimated cost of some €5 billion.
Fine Gael leader Enda Kenny has proposed deferring the project and prioritising smaller, more labour-intensive construction initiatives.
The report uses the example of Schiphol airport in Amsterdam, which it says, like Dublin airport, was for a long time poorly served by public transport, relying almost solely on bus connections to Amsterdam and other cities across the Netherlands.
It found that the deliberate effort to create a working main network railway station in the airport, rather than a mere shuttle rail service to and from the city centre, proved a huge success.
The report also claims that Dublin should not be satisfied with simply connecting the airport with the city centre, as mainline rail access has proven a model of success across Europe.
“It may be of benefit to see Belfast, Dublin and Shannon connected together through a single high-speed railway line, which would link up the three major airports in the country,” Mr van der Kamp. said. “It would provide a . . . fast connection to the west of Ireland, and Galway could be connected to this via the Western Rail Corridor.”
© 2009 The Irish Times
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0610/1224248536121.html

IIMII

IIMII wrote: »

“It would provide a . . . fast connection to the west of Ireland, and Galway could be connected to this via the Western Rail Corridor.”

mickoneill30

Better put it on hold for another 20 years while they start looking at building a bigger train line.

IIMII wrote: »

Fine Gael leader Enda Kenny has proposed deferring the project and prioritising smaller, more labour-intensive construction initiatives.

Indeed. Let's have a quick fix that'll get a few votes inexpensively.

godtabh

IIMII wrote: »

members of the Dublin City Business Association

People who dont support Metro North write report against Metro North. A bit of a shocker there

Metrobest

IIMII wrote: »

Metro North project questioned - report

BRIAN KAVANAGH, Irish Times
Wed, Jun 10, 2009
THE CONSTRUCTION of Dublin’s controversial Metro North rail system will not guarantee maximum accessibility to Dublin airport.
Moreover, it will not ensure the airport’s future as a vital travel hub, a new planning report argues.
A Spatial Vision for Dublin was published yesterday at the Stephen’s Green Hibernian Club, by members of the Dublin City Business Association, which commissioned the report, and author Hendrik van der Kamp.
Although Metro North has been touted by the Government as central to Dublin’s economic development, speculation intensified at the beginning of the year that the project would be shelved due to an estimated cost of some €5 billion.
Fine Gael leader Enda Kenny has proposed deferring the project and prioritising smaller, more labour-intensive construction initiatives.
The report uses the example of Schiphol airport in Amsterdam, which it says, like Dublin airport, was for a long time poorly served by public transport, relying almost solely on bus connections to Amsterdam and other cities across the Netherlands.
It found that the deliberate effort to create a working main network railway station in the airport, rather than a mere shuttle rail service to and from the city centre, proved a huge success.
The report also claims that Dublin should not be satisfied with simply connecting the airport with the city centre, as mainline rail access has proven a model of success across Europe.
“It may be of benefit to see Belfast, Dublin and Shannon connected together through a single high-speed railway line, which would link up the three major airports in the country,” Mr van der Kamp. said. “It would provide a . . . fast connection to the west of Ireland, and Galway could be connected to this via the Western Rail Corridor.”
© 2009 The Irish Times
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0610/1224248536121.html

More biased reporting from the Irish Times. No surprise there. A bit of fact-checking would have revealed that Schipol is in the Randstand, a region with 10 m people in an area the size of Munster. That's why a connection to the Dutch rail network makes sense.

And, irony of ironies, there is a plan to connect it to Amsterdam's metro system because people Schipol is "not accessible enough".

Sponge Bob

Metrobest wrote: »

And, irony of ironies, there is a plan to connect it to Amsterdam's metro system because people Schipol is "not accessible enough".

Quite right . It is high time that we

1. Extended the Heavy Rail Western Rail Corridor under Dublin Airport
2. Built a lite rail for the Dubs themselves , country people don't want to mix with them on public transport !

Build the heavy rail first, it benefits more people ( 4m ) than the Metro would ( 0.5m) and let the Southsiders cycle to the airport .

It had to be said . Fair play to Hendrik Van Der Kamp .

bangersandmash

kearnsr wrote: »

People who dont support Metro North write report against Metro North. A bit of a shocker there

Indeed. Last month the DCBA was complaining about the effect of the bus gate at College Green which would be which would be implemented during construction of Metro North. No surprise that the report they commissioned came to the conclusion that the Metro North is a bad idea.

Stupido

hmmm.....who commissioned the report?

Them who don't want any digging up of streets!!!


Agenda anyone?????

Rawr

IIMII wrote: »

Metro North project questioned - report

“It may be of benefit to see Belfast, Dublin and Shannon connected together through a single high-speed railway line.......It would provide a . . . fast connection to the west of Ireland, and Galway could be connected to this via the Western Rail Corridor.”

Fast Connection? Western Rail Corridor? Dublin Airport to Galway via the Western Rail Corridor? Arg! Brain...melting....

D.L.R.

The MN route can't be both a local and national line. We have to decide which is the priority and right now Dublin needs dedicated mass transit.

There's nothing about MN which prevents the possibility of highspeed rail in the future, so lets leave that one for the next generation. Its a totally separate issue.

westtip

Rawr wrote: »

Fast Connection? Western Rail Corridor? Dublin Airport to Galway via the Western Rail Corridor? Arg! Brain...melting....

Exactly, laughable isn't it. Still at least we wake up everyday knowing there will be another hair brained idea likely to pop up in the media, sure twill be great for people of Gort.

Sponge Bob

The Western Rail Corridor , terminating in a large underground station under the Departure Halls of Dublin Airport , makes great sense to me .

It also deals with the 'dispersed population' argument that dogs the WRC, 20m+ bodies transit Dublin Airport annually and this proposal snatches them and makes them visit the Wesht .

I can see these hordes standing on the platform in Claremorris ( or Gort ) at 10pm of a friday evening and saying to each other ....."Now What" ????

admiralofthefleet

IIMII wrote: »

Fine Gael leader Enda Kenny has proposed deferring the project and prioritising smaller, more labour-intensive construction initiatives.

fine gael shunning the northside of dublin, whatever next:rolleyes:

Winters

http://www.dcba.ie/index.cfm/loc/2-4/articleId/CA741A46-E5D4-A176-F1B708A86D7A2D51.htm

Not much of a study to be honest.

If FF were openly talking about stalling Metro North Enda Kenny would be lambasting them for short sightedness etc. and would be declaring that smaller construction projects are a waste of money or something.

I feel there are a lot of people out there that are not voting FG yet simply because of Enda Kenny.

I have to say that after using Schiphol, Frankfurt and looking at the plans for Brussels, Berlin Brandenburg et al I have to agree although I feel the location of Dublin Airport doesn't lend itself well to connecting to many inter city routes.

BendiBus

a mere shuttle rail service to and from the city centre

Probably not for the last time

MN is NOT a F&*#ING Airport Shuttle

It's a suburban metro with a stop at the airport.

godtabh

BendiBus wrote: »

Probably not for the last time

MN is NOT a F&*#ING Airport Shuttle

It's a suburban metro with a stop at the airport.

Why use facts when it doesnt support your agenda?

mickoneill30

BendiBus wrote: »

It's a suburban metro with a stop at the airport.

See now, if only you'd told them before they did their report. They'll only have to go off and do it again now with new data.

Sponge Bob

It is an airport shuttle that allows Northsiders on unlike the Heathrow Express for example .

Slice

Metro North would never have happened if Dublin Airport didn't need a rail link ...doesn't that kinda make it an airport shuttle?

Zebra3

Slice wrote: »

Metro North would never have happened if Dublin Airport didn't need a rail link ...doesn't that kinda make it an airport shuttle?

Eh, it hasn't happened.

mickoneill30

Fingal County Council projected the population of Swords to grow to 125000 by 2025. Sure don't worry. They'll just drive into the city.

Admittedly that estimation is a year old and is probably based on the Metro being built (they didn't know it's just for the airport). I've no idea how the recession has affected those estimations. Hopefully some agency apart from the DCBA are working on those numbers. Probably not. It'll get shelved and the opposition will have something to moan about if walking into the city is quicker than driving or the bus.

Slice wrote: »

Metro North would never have happened if Dublin Airport didn't need a rail link ...doesn't that kinda make it an airport shuttle?

It probably wouldn't have been planned either if the population of North Dublin didn't balloon in recent years. Does that make it a commuter train?

spacetweek

Slice wrote: »

Metro North would never have happened if Dublin Airport didn't need a rail link ...doesn't that kinda make it an airport shuttle?

Au contraire, there are so many important destinations located along its alignment that even without the airport, it would still be justifiable.

BendiBus

Sponge Bob wrote: »

It is an airport shuttle that allows Northsiders on unlike the Heathrow Express for example .

So it's like the Piccadilly line then. An airport shuttle that picks up people in West (& East) London.

I've no idea how the recession has affected those estimations

A recession might have an affect on timescales but recessions end and demand returns.

Sponge Bob

A Piccadilly line that ends in Staines would be the correct analogy

BendiBus

Sponge Bob wrote: »

A Piccadilly line that ends in Staines would be the correct analogy

I haven't been in Swords in years but it can't be as bad as Staines - the most appropriately named place in England.

budhabob

Winters wrote: »

http://www.dcba.ie/index.cfm/loc/2-4/articleId/CA741A46-E5D4-A176-F1B708A86D7A2D51.htm
I feel there are a lot of people out there that are not voting FG yet simply because of Enda Kenny.

He does have that effect on people doesnt he?

GerardKeating

D.L.R. wrote: »

The MN route can't be both a local and national line. We have to decide which is the priority and right now Dublin needs dedicated mass transit.

There's nothing about MN which prevents the possibility of highspeed rail in the future, so lets leave that one for the next generation. Its a totally separate issue.

Why not? Quad-track the route to the airport and continue it out to meet the northern-line.

The "Express" tracks can be used for an Express service to the airport, if required and for InterCity Trains.

They would also free up a lot of slots on the existing Northern DART line, which aint going to be quad-track anytime soon.

D.L.R.

GerardKeating wrote: »

Why not? Quad-track the route to the airport and continue it out to meet the northern-line.

The "Express" tracks can be used for an Express service to the airport, if required and for InterCity Trains.

They would also free up a lot of slots on the existing Northern DART line, which aint going to be quad-track anytime soon.

Why would you build express tunnels to a bendy metro alignment? Two different animals, thats the whole point.

Metrobest

GerardKeating wrote: »

Why not? Quad-track the route to the airport and continue it out to meet the northern-line.

The "Express" tracks can be used for an Express service to the airport, if required and for InterCity Trains.

They would also free up a lot of slots on the existing Northern DART line, which aint going to be quad-track anytime soon.

Irish Rail have already said the Northern line can't be quad tracked because it there are too many obstacles in the way.

Because a tunnel is needed, it's vital to use the fastest, most direct route to the airport while serving a smorgasbord of old and new neighbourhoods along the corridor.

Cool Mo D

There is a cheap enough way for it to interconnect with the Enterprise. Extend the Metro to Donabate above ground - it's only a couple of miles with no demolition of property needed. Add Donabate as a set-down only stop on the Enterprise, and run a Donabate-Airport shuttle metro to meet each Enterprise. With a bit of intergrated ticketing, this could be a good moneyspinner even - look at premium price rail connections to airports in the UK.

Winters

Metrobest wrote: »

Irish Rail have already said the Northern line can't be quad tracked because it there are too many obstacles in the way.

I dont recall IE saying that it wasnt possible. Cost prohibitive perhaps but it was looked at as part of the Dublin Integrated rail Plan.

In engineering everything is possible but not always worth it..

spacetweek

Winters wrote: »

I dont recall IE saying that it wasnt possible. Cost prohibitive perhaps but it was looked at as part of the Dublin Integrated rail Plan.

In engineering everything is possible but not always worth it..

Yes. Quad tracking would be prohibitively expensive due to the lack of land. Triple tracking would be possible but would be a very poor substitute for the Metro. It wouldn't allow the level of service quadding would and Ballymun/DCU/Drumcondra would get nothing. It's a long way around and if you sped it up to get people into town faster, then there can't be intermediate stops so the only new possible journey you get is Airport-Connolly. A network should facilitate as many possible journeys as it can. In any case express services shouldn't be needed as the journey time from Aiport-Stephen's Green will be only 17 mins.

dowlingm

Shoving the airport link through the Northern line does nothing for DCU and nothing for Ballymun, both substantial trip generators on a daily basis. Having a Maynooth-MN connection in Drumcondra makes for a shorter journey and empties some seats for local traffic that would otherwise have to change at Pearse post-Interconnector. That's before we count the tens of thousands Metro West will bring in.

Remember also that the Howth Junction area is already complex before you add airport conflicts.

The alternative is a separate JFK Airtrain type light rail/monorail connector to Howth Junction or Portmarnock, but then that's a change right there in places not really destinations in their own right (although an enterprising individual with land could build a long-stay car park I suppose).

Expanding the Northern line to Drogheda will likely be necessary to properly service improved Enterprise and Northern suburban before adding airport service to the mix.

My preference though would be a fast grade separated alignment for Enterprise/express suburban north of the Donabate metro connection to just short of Drogheda rather than adding tracks all the way round the coast, with consequent bridge widening and disruption to existing services.

dowlingm

One other point re: Metro North - having Metro and DART in parallel is important in changing the structure of road transport from An Larism to perpendicular feeders. Making Dublin's a more human-friendly downtown is not just about getting rid of cars and trucks but quays packed with DB diesel burners too.