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[Article] Metro North project questioned - report

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  • 10-06-2009 8:16am
    #1
    IIMII
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,366 ✭✭✭


    Metro North project questioned - report

    BRIAN KAVANAGH, Irish Times
    Wed, Jun 10, 2009
    THE CONSTRUCTION of Dublin’s controversial Metro North rail system will not guarantee maximum accessibility to Dublin airport.
    Moreover, it will not ensure the airport’s future as a vital travel hub, a new planning report argues.
    A Spatial Vision for Dublin was published yesterday at the Stephen’s Green Hibernian Club, by members of the Dublin City Business Association, which commissioned the report, and author Hendrik van der Kamp.
    Although Metro North has been touted by the Government as central to Dublin’s economic development, speculation intensified at the beginning of the year that the project would be shelved due to an estimated cost of some €5 billion.
    Fine Gael leader Enda Kenny has proposed deferring the project and prioritising smaller, more labour-intensive construction initiatives.
    The report uses the example of Schiphol airport in Amsterdam, which it says, like Dublin airport, was for a long time poorly served by public transport, relying almost solely on bus connections to Amsterdam and other cities across the Netherlands.
    It found that the deliberate effort to create a working main network railway station in the airport, rather than a mere shuttle rail service to and from the city centre, proved a huge success.
    The report also claims that Dublin should not be satisfied with simply connecting the airport with the city centre, as mainline rail access has proven a model of success across Europe.
    “It may be of benefit to see Belfast, Dublin and Shannon connected together through a single high-speed railway line, which would link up the three major airports in the country,” Mr van der Kamp. said. “It would provide a . . . fast connection to the west of Ireland, and Galway could be connected to this via the Western Rail Corridor.”
    © 2009 The Irish Times
    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0610/1224248536121.html


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    #2
    IIMII
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,366 ✭✭✭IIMII


    IIMII wrote: »
    “It would provide a . . . fast connection to the west of Ireland, and Galway could be connected to this via the Western Rail Corridor.”
    :)


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    #3
    mickoneill30
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,073 ✭✭✭mickoneill30


    Better put it on hold for another 20 years while they start looking at building a bigger train line. :(
    IIMII wrote: »
    Fine Gael leader Enda Kenny has proposed deferring the project and prioritising smaller, more labour-intensive construction initiatives.

    Indeed. Let's have a quick fix that'll get a few votes inexpensively.


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    #4
    godtabh
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 23,207 Mod ✭✭✭✭godtabh


    IIMII wrote: »

    members of the Dublin City Business Association

    People who dont support Metro North write report against Metro North. A bit of a shocker there


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    #5
    Metrobest
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,042 ✭✭✭Metrobest


    IIMII wrote: »
    Metro North project questioned - report

    BRIAN KAVANAGH, Irish Times
    Wed, Jun 10, 2009
    THE CONSTRUCTION of Dublin’s controversial Metro North rail system will not guarantee maximum accessibility to Dublin airport.
    Moreover, it will not ensure the airport’s future as a vital travel hub, a new planning report argues.
    A Spatial Vision for Dublin was published yesterday at the Stephen’s Green Hibernian Club, by members of the Dublin City Business Association, which commissioned the report, and author Hendrik van der Kamp.
    Although Metro North has been touted by the Government as central to Dublin’s economic development, speculation intensified at the beginning of the year that the project would be shelved due to an estimated cost of some €5 billion.
    Fine Gael leader Enda Kenny has proposed deferring the project and prioritising smaller, more labour-intensive construction initiatives.
    The report uses the example of Schiphol airport in Amsterdam, which it says, like Dublin airport, was for a long time poorly served by public transport, relying almost solely on bus connections to Amsterdam and other cities across the Netherlands.
    It found that the deliberate effort to create a working main network railway station in the airport, rather than a mere shuttle rail service to and from the city centre, proved a huge success.
    The report also claims that Dublin should not be satisfied with simply connecting the airport with the city centre, as mainline rail access has proven a model of success across Europe.
    “It may be of benefit to see Belfast, Dublin and Shannon connected together through a single high-speed railway line, which would link up the three major airports in the country,” Mr van der Kamp. said. “It would provide a . . . fast connection to the west of Ireland, and Galway could be connected to this via the Western Rail Corridor.”
    © 2009 The Irish Times
    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0610/1224248536121.html

    More biased reporting from the Irish Times. No surprise there. A bit of fact-checking would have revealed that Schipol is in the Randstand, a region with 10 m people in an area the size of Munster. That's why a connection to the Dutch rail network makes sense.

    And, irony of ironies, there is a plan to connect it to Amsterdam's metro system because people Schipol is "not accessible enough".


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    #6
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Metrobest wrote: »
    And, irony of ironies, there is a plan to connect it to Amsterdam's metro system because people Schipol is "not accessible enough".

    Quite right . It is high time that we

    1. Extended the Heavy Rail Western Rail Corridor under Dublin Airport
    2. Built a lite rail for the Dubs themselves , country people don't want to mix with them on public transport !

    Build the heavy rail first, it benefits more people ( 4m ) than the Metro would ( 0.5m) and let the Southsiders cycle to the airport .

    It had to be said . Fair play to Hendrik Van Der Kamp . :p


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    #7
    bangersandmash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 686 ✭✭✭bangersandmash


    kearnsr wrote: »
    People who dont support Metro North write report against Metro North. A bit of a shocker there
    Indeed. Last month the DCBA was complaining about the effect of the bus gate at College Green which would be which would be implemented during construction of Metro North. No surprise that the report they commissioned came to the conclusion that the Metro North is a bad idea.


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    #8
    Stupido
    Closed Accounts Posts: 164 ✭✭Stupido


    hmmm.....who commissioned the report?

    Them who don't want any digging up of streets!!!


    Agenda anyone?????


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    #9
    Rawr
    Registered Users Posts: 3,782 ✭✭✭Rawr


    IIMII wrote: »
    Metro North project questioned - report

    “It may be of benefit to see Belfast, Dublin and Shannon connected together through a single high-speed railway line.......It would provide a . . . fast connection to the west of Ireland, and Galway could be connected to this via the Western Rail Corridor.”

    Fast Connection? Western Rail Corridor? Dublin Airport to Galway via the Western Rail Corridor? Arg! Brain...melting....:confused:


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    #10
    D.L.R.
    Registered Users Posts: 1,284 ✭✭✭D.L.R.


    The MN route can't be both a local and national line. We have to decide which is the priority and right now Dublin needs dedicated mass transit.

    There's nothing about MN which prevents the possibility of highspeed rail in the future, so lets leave that one for the next generation. Its a totally separate issue.


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    #11
    westtip
    Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    Rawr wrote: »
    Fast Connection? Western Rail Corridor? Dublin Airport to Galway via the Western Rail Corridor? Arg! Brain...melting....:confused:

    Exactly, laughable isn't it. Still at least we wake up everyday knowing there will be another hair brained idea likely to pop up in the media, sure twill be great for people of Gort.


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    #12
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    The Western Rail Corridor , terminating in a large underground station under the Departure Halls of Dublin Airport , makes great sense to me .

    It also deals with the 'dispersed population' argument that dogs the WRC, 20m+ bodies transit Dublin Airport annually and this proposal snatches them and makes them visit the Wesht .

    I can see these hordes standing on the platform in Claremorris ( or Gort ) at 10pm of a friday evening and saying to each other ....."Now What" ????


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    #13
    admiralofthefleet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,515 ✭✭✭✭admiralofthefleet


    IIMII wrote: »

    Fine Gael leader Enda Kenny has proposed deferring the project and prioritising smaller, more labour-intensive construction initiatives.

    fine gael shunning the northside of dublin, whatever next:rolleyes:


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    #14
    Winters
    Registered Users Posts: 14,761 ✭✭✭✭Winters


    http://www.dcba.ie/index.cfm/loc/2-4/articleId/CA741A46-E5D4-A176-F1B708A86D7A2D51.htm

    Not much of a study to be honest.

    If FF were openly talking about stalling Metro North Enda Kenny would be lambasting them for short sightedness etc. and would be declaring that smaller construction projects are a waste of money or something.

    I feel there are a lot of people out there that are not voting FG yet simply because of Enda Kenny.

    I have to say that after using Schiphol, Frankfurt and looking at the plans for Brussels, Berlin Brandenburg et al I have to agree although I feel the location of Dublin Airport doesn't lend itself well to connecting to many inter city routes.


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    #15
    BendiBus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,075 ✭✭✭BendiBus


    a mere shuttle rail service to and from the city centre

    Probably not for the last time

    MN is NOT a F&*#ING Airport Shuttle

    It's a suburban metro with a stop at the airport.


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    #16
    godtabh
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 23,207 Mod ✭✭✭✭godtabh


    BendiBus wrote: »
    Probably not for the last time

    MN is NOT a F&*#ING Airport Shuttle

    It's a suburban metro with a stop at the airport.

    Why use facts when it doesnt support your agenda?


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    #17
    mickoneill30
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,073 ✭✭✭mickoneill30


    BendiBus wrote: »
    It's a suburban metro with a stop at the airport.

    See now, if only you'd told them before they did their report. :D They'll only have to go off and do it again now with new data.


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    #18
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    It is an airport shuttle that allows Northsiders on unlike the Heathrow Express for example .


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    #19
    Slice
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,133 ✭✭✭Slice


    Metro North would never have happened if Dublin Airport didn't need a rail link ...doesn't that kinda make it an airport shuttle?


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    #20
    Zebra3
    Registered Users Posts: 13,859 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    Slice wrote: »
    Metro North would never have happened if Dublin Airport didn't need a rail link ...doesn't that kinda make it an airport shuttle?

    Eh, it hasn't happened. :(


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    #21
    mickoneill30
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,073 ✭✭✭mickoneill30


    Fingal County Council projected the population of Swords to grow to 125000 by 2025. Sure don't worry. They'll just drive into the city.

    Admittedly that estimation is a year old and is probably based on the Metro being built (they didn't know it's just for the airport). I've no idea how the recession has affected those estimations. Hopefully some agency apart from the DCBA are working on those numbers. Probably not. It'll get shelved and the opposition will have something to moan about if walking into the city is quicker than driving or the bus.
    Slice wrote: »
    Metro North would never have happened if Dublin Airport didn't need a rail link ...doesn't that kinda make it an airport shuttle?

    It probably wouldn't have been planned either if the population of North Dublin didn't balloon in recent years. Does that make it a commuter train?


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    #22
    spacetweek
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,974 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    Slice wrote: »
    Metro North would never have happened if Dublin Airport didn't need a rail link ...doesn't that kinda make it an airport shuttle?
    Au contraire, there are so many important destinations located along its alignment that even without the airport, it would still be justifiable.


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    #23
    BendiBus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,075 ✭✭✭BendiBus


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    It is an airport shuttle that allows Northsiders on unlike the Heathrow Express for example .

    So it's like the Piccadilly line then. An airport shuttle that picks up people in West (& East) London.
    I've no idea how the recession has affected those estimations

    A recession might have an affect on timescales but recessions end and demand returns.


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    #24
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    A Piccadilly line that ends in Staines would be the correct analogy :)


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    #25
    BendiBus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,075 ✭✭✭BendiBus


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    A Piccadilly line that ends in Staines would be the correct analogy :)

    I haven't been in Swords in years but it can't be as bad as Staines - the most appropriately named place in England. :)


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    #26
    budhabob
    Registered Users Posts: 4,840 ✭✭✭budhabob


    Winters wrote: »
    http://www.dcba.ie/index.cfm/loc/2-4/articleId/CA741A46-E5D4-A176-F1B708A86D7A2D51.htm
    I feel there are a lot of people out there that are not voting FG yet simply because of Enda Kenny.

    He does have that effect on people doesnt he?


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    #27
    GerardKeating
    Registered Users Posts: 7,549 ✭✭✭GerardKeating


    D.L.R. wrote: »
    The MN route can't be both a local and national line. We have to decide which is the priority and right now Dublin needs dedicated mass transit.

    There's nothing about MN which prevents the possibility of highspeed rail in the future, so lets leave that one for the next generation. Its a totally separate issue.

    Why not? Quad-track the route to the airport and continue it out to meet the northern-line.

    The "Express" tracks can be used for an Express service to the airport, if required and for InterCity Trains.

    They would also free up a lot of slots on the existing Northern DART line, which aint going to be quad-track anytime soon.


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    #28
    D.L.R.
    Registered Users Posts: 1,284 ✭✭✭D.L.R.


    GerardKeating wrote: »
    Why not? Quad-track the route to the airport and continue it out to meet the northern-line.

    The "Express" tracks can be used for an Express service to the airport, if required and for InterCity Trains.

    They would also free up a lot of slots on the existing Northern DART line, which aint going to be quad-track anytime soon.

    Why would you build express tunnels to a bendy metro alignment? Two different animals, thats the whole point.


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    #29
    Metrobest
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,042 ✭✭✭Metrobest


    GerardKeating wrote: »
    Why not? Quad-track the route to the airport and continue it out to meet the northern-line.

    The "Express" tracks can be used for an Express service to the airport, if required and for InterCity Trains.

    They would also free up a lot of slots on the existing Northern DART line, which aint going to be quad-track anytime soon.

    Irish Rail have already said the Northern line can't be quad tracked because it there are too many obstacles in the way.

    Because a tunnel is needed, it's vital to use the fastest, most direct route to the airport while serving a smorgasbord of old and new neighbourhoods along the corridor.


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    #30
    Cool Mo D
    Registered Users Posts: 1,419 ✭✭✭Cool Mo D


    There is a cheap enough way for it to interconnect with the Enterprise. Extend the Metro to Donabate above ground - it's only a couple of miles with no demolition of property needed. Add Donabate as a set-down only stop on the Enterprise, and run a Donabate-Airport shuttle metro to meet each Enterprise. With a bit of intergrated ticketing, this could be a good moneyspinner even - look at premium price rail connections to airports in the UK.


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    #31
    Winters
    Registered Users Posts: 14,761 ✭✭✭✭Winters


    Metrobest wrote: »
    Irish Rail have already said the Northern line can't be quad tracked because it there are too many obstacles in the way.

    I dont recall IE saying that it wasnt possible. Cost prohibitive perhaps but it was looked at as part of the Dublin Integrated rail Plan.

    In engineering everything is possible but not always worth it..


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