Since FG & Lab will lead the next gov, who will be the ministers?

butters.scotch

Thoughts?

Here are my predictions:

[font=&quot]Taoiseach: Enda Kenny (FG)
Finance: Richard Bruton (FG)
Health: Joan Burton (Lab)
Justice: Pat Rabbitte (Lab)
Enterprise: George Lee (FG)
Foreign Affairs: Simon Coveney (FG)
Transport: Jan O Sullivan (Lab)
Environment: Brian Hayes (FG)
Educatioin: Ruairi Quinn (Lab)
Social Welfare: Leo Varadker (FG)
Communications: James Reilly (FG)
Gaeltacht: Michael D Higgins (Lab)
Defence: Willie Penrose (Lab)
Agriculture: Phil Hogan (FG)
Arts and Sport: Olwyn Enright (FG)[/font]

Dalfiatach

Varadkar in social welfare? :eek:

I'd definitely put Howlin in Justice, he was one of the only TDs to stand up and ask questions about the carry-on in Donegal. He knows how rotten the system is and how much reform is needed.

If I was Kenny and I had to drop a few FG people to make way for Labour Ministers, I'd drop young Coveney, he's a lightweight. A few of your others are fine though, although this assumes the Ministries themselves aren't completely reorganised by any new Government!

So, I'd go with something like

Taoiseach: Enda Kenny (FG)
Finance: Richard Bruton (FG)
Health: James Reilly (FG)
Justice: Brendan Howlin (Lab)
Enterprise: George Lee (FG)
Foreign Affairs: Eamon Gilmore (Lab)
Transport: Pat Rabbitte (Lab)
Environment: Brian Hayes (FG)
Education: Ruairi Quinn (Lab)
Social Welfare: Joan Burton (Lab)
Communications: Leo Varadkar (FG)
Gaeltacht: Michael D Higgins (Lab)
Defence: Charles Flanagan (FG)
Agriculture: Phil Hogan (FG)
Arts and Sport: Olwyn Enright (FG)

Not bad, I like the look of it. Definitely an improvement over the freakshow we have in Cabinet right now!!

squonk

I didn't think Michael D would be standing next time? Also, Surely James Reilly is the man for Health? In fairness I couldn't see Joan Burton walking into that one, plus it's not really her area... not that that makes an ounce of difference I know!

I_am_Jebus

Thats the problem (sorry, one of the problems) of politics in this country (and perhaps others too) picking Minister's to lead a portfolio without the relevant knowledge or experience.

Taking Mary Harney for example, as far as I know worked in an education capacity before entering the Dáil. What does she know about health issues. Well, from what I've seen over the past "x" number of years - its feck all.

So, absolutely James Reilly should be the next Minister for Health should Fine Gael be/make up the next Government. But the same goes for all other portfolios.

I also think that Government parties should appoint an assistant to some/all Ministers in order to bring specific skills to a portfolio. For example, appointing a TD that has a proven track record and/or the qualifications in re-organising large organisations etc... could be appointed to assist the Minister of Health in tackling the HSE issue. Presuming, that say for example, James Reilly doesn't have that particular experiene / skill set.

destroyer

Depending on how strong Labour are after the election they may insist on
having the Finance job, (probably J Burton)
J Reilly is a defo for health.

ShooterSF

destroyer wrote: »

Depending on how strong Labour are after the election they may insist on
having the Finance job, (probably J Burton)
J Reilly is a defo for health.

Isn't finance the second highest job in government and secretly the highest. When has the minor side of a coalition ever held that role?

solice

ShooterSF wrote: »

Isn't finance the second highest job in government and secretly the highest. When has the minor side of a coalition ever held that role?

Rurai Quinn was Minister for Finance in the Rainbow Government

brianthebard

Ruiri Quinn was wasn't he?

Damn beaten to it!

destroyer

solice wrote: »

Rurai Quinn was Minister for Finance in the Rainbow Government

He was actually a very good Finance minister imo, the problem with giving this portfolio to Labour though is then how to accommodate R Bruton and George Lee to get the best out of them.

kevmy

As said it depends on the strength of the 2 parties after the election.

If Lab have a very good one and FG only a middling one then Burton will be in Finance and Bruton in E,T&E. If FG have a good election it will be the other way around.

As most people said James Reilly will get Health (Lab won't mind this as both parties hold similar enough views and Health is still a bit of an Angola).

That leaves Gilmore with either Justice or Foreign Affairs as they would be the remaining highest ranking posts.

Micheal D isn't running next time so he's out. I would see Rabbitte and two other Lab Ministers in there as well (Quinn and O'Sullivan probably - is Howlin not tied down by being Leas Ceann Comhairle?)

dave-higgz

I may be changing the conversation here but who's to say that FG/Lab will be the next government?? Nataionalisation of the banks is one contentious issue!

solice

dave-higgz wrote: »

I may be changing the conversation here but who's to say that FG/Lab will be the next government?? Nataionalisation of the banks is one contentious issue!

I view that issue as a positive aspect of a potential FG/Labor governement. They have 2 potential rescue scenarios between them. The FF/Green government have 1.

brettmirl

Taoiseach: Enda Kenny (FG)
Finance: Richard Bruton (FG)
Health: James Reilly (FG)
Justice: Ruairi Quinn (Lab)
Enterprise: Joan Burton (Lab)
Foreign Affairs: Eamon Gilmore (Lab)
Transport: Brian Hayes (FG)
Environment: Pat Rabitte (Lab)
Education: Liz McManus (Lab)
Social Welfare: Jan O'Sullivan (Lab)
Communications: Leo Varadkar (FG)
Gaeltacht: Olywen Enright (FG)
Defence: Simon Coveney (FG)
Agriculture: Sean Sherlock (Lab) or Phil Hogan (FG)
Arts and Sport: Olivia Mitchell (FG)

George Lee is not ready for a full ministerial position yet in my opinion, but would be a Minister of State at Finance or Enterprise.

squonk

Any way we could open a competition on this? We could all post our selections and then see who came closest when the full lineup is annuonced after the election early next year

destroyer

mick_irl wrote: »

George Lee is not ready for a full ministerial position yet in my opinion, but would be a Minister of State at Finance or Enterprise.

Very hard to keep him out, he didnt enter politics to sit on the backbenches, many people have been ministers from their first day in the dail, eg Alan Dukes, Niamh Bhreathnach , I think Lee will want a ministry when the opportunity arises, he might not get another for a long time.

If he gets the same vote as he did last Friday and brings in a running mate (or two) Kenny wont dare leave him out, also FG are very concious of the importance of keeping a strong presence in Dublin where they were nearly wiped out under M Noonan.

squonk

destroyer wrote: »

Very hard to keep him out, he didnt enter politics to sit on the backbenches, many people have been ministers from their first day in the dail, eg Alan Dukes, Niamh Bhreathnach , I think Lee will want a ministry when the opportunity arises, he might not get another for a long time.

If he gets the same vote as he did last Friday and brings in a running mate (or two) Kenny wont dare leave him out, also FG are very concious of the importance of keeping a strong presence in Dublin where they were nearly wiped out under M Noonan.

Yes I agree! I think that's part of the deal with Lee and I think that's what the voters expect also. Even from outside of the constituency it's what I'd expect, and I'd vote for him with that in mind if I was entitled to.

Also, it was said earlier that he hasn't the experience to become a minister just yet, well look at Lenihan at the moment. You couldn't make more of a bags of things than he has, experience or no! The assumption is too that he will be assigned to an area where he's competency in that area will be useful, so I think he's as ready for it as any of the rest of them.

Badabing

James Bannon minister for Communications, Rabbite minister of sport and tourism.

techdiver

mick_irl wrote: »

George Lee is not ready for a full ministerial position yet in my opinion, but would be a Minister of State at Finance or Enterprise.

Why? Because he is highly qualified and we don't do things that way in this cowboy country? My fear is the same old crap will manifest with the new government whenever that happens. Ministers will be picked based on seniority or the fact they are from an "important constituency" rather than qualifications.

Government should be run in the same shrewd way as any private company. Loyalty should mean nothing and the right person for the job should get in regardless of how many feathers it ruffles among "the lads".

Zuiderzee

What would be more interesting would be a Labour / SF / Indie Government

Agent Smith

only about 60 odd TD's Too short atm

listowel1

would jimmy deenihan not be in pole position for minister for sport.received huge vote in last election and I am fairly sure he is currently fg spokesman on sport and tourism

butters.scotch

butters.scotch wrote: »

Thoughts?

Here are my predictions:

[font=&quot]Taoiseach: Enda Kenny (FG)
Finance: Richard Bruton (FG)
Health: Joan Burton (Lab)
Justice: Pat Rabbitte (Lab)
Enterprise: George Lee (FG)
Foreign Affairs: Simon Coveney (FG)
Transport: Jan O Sullivan (Lab)
Environment: Brian Hayes (FG)
Educatioin: Ruairi Quinn (Lab)
Social Welfare: Leo Varadker (FG)
Communications: James Reilly (FG)
Gaeltacht: Michael D Higgins (Lab)
Defence: Willie Penrose (Lab)
Agriculture: Phil Hogan (FG)
Arts and Sport: Olwyn Enright (FG)[/font]

How the hell did I forget Eamon Gilmore!!! I must reorganise my whole cabinet!

Breezer

Zuiderzee wrote: »

What would be more interesting would be a Labour / SF / Indie Government

Not going to happen unless SF do something major in the next few months (other than oppose Lisbon with no MEPs). This was supposed to be a big election from them and instead they lost ground.

FG/Green won't be happening either. Even if the the Greens do salvage some credibility by pulling the plug on this government, which is what I think will eventually happen, they'll take a bit of a battering at the next election regardless.

Labour has ruled out coalition with FF and I can't see Gilmore facing the backlash from the people for going back on that

FG/Labour is looking like the only viable option.

Zuiderzee

Anyway, the premise is that FG would make up part of a Labour Government

Taoiseach: Enda Kenny (FG)
Foreign Affairs: Eamon Gilmore (Lab)
Finance: Joan Burton (Lab)
Health: Leo Varadkar (FG)
Education: Pat Rabbitte (Lab)
Justice: Richard Bruton (FG)
Transport: Fergus O Dowd or Simon Covney (FG)
Environment: Sean Sherlock (Lab)
Social Welfare: Kathleen Lynch (Lab)
Gaeltacht: Michael Ring (FG)
Defence: Simon Coveney (FG) or Padraig McCormack (FG)
Agriculture: Michael Creed (FG)
Arts and Sport: Ivana Bacik (Lab) - subject to TD election or
Olwyn Enright (FG)
Enterprise: George Lee (FG) - as long as I can turn off the TV when he talks

ninty9er

destroyer wrote: »

He was actually a very good Finance minister imo, the problem with giving this portfolio to Labour though is then how to accommodate R Bruton and George Lee to get the best out of them.

George Lee is an economist who has until now worked on the basis of ifs and buts. Economists by definition work on theories. Constraints are rarely to the forefront in economics as they would be for a Minister for Finance. Ruairi Quinn should be re-appointed should Lab/FG form the next govt.

Dalfiatach

ninty9er wrote: »

George Lee is an economist who has until now worked on the basis of ifs and buts. Economists by definition work on theories. Constraints are rarely to the forefront in economics as they would be for a Minister for Finance. Ruairi Quinn should be re-appointed should Lab/FG form the next govt.

Typical FFer, youse haven't a clue about business and economics, all youse know is building houses and selling them at stupid prices.

"Constraints are rarely to the forefront in economics" dear Jesus that's one of the most idiotic, ignorant, illinformed bits of pure spoofing rubbish I've ever read.

Economics is all about constraints you utter numpty. The allocation of scarce resources between competing choices. That is economics, as any leaving cert economics student could tell you. The very first chapter of any economics textbook (not that you would ever have read one, I know FFers don't hold with all that namby-pamby intellectual stuff) generally starts off with the classic "guns or butter" illustration.

Aaaaarrrrrgggghhhhhh, why are most FF posters so bloody-minded with their arrogant stupidity? They don't have a clue but insist on pontificating with great conviction on matters they clearly know nothing about! Does my head in! They seem to believe that as long as you bluster and spoof and shout the other person down, the actual words don't have to actually make sense or have any relationship to the real world. Mickey Martin was doing the same on Q&A on Monday, if you actually listened he was talking pure nonsensical gibberish, disloacated fragments of incoherence, not a bit of it made any sense at all - but said with great verve and sneering bluster. Which sways idiots, apparently, all 25% of them.

brettmirl

techdiver wrote: »

Why? Because he is highly qualified and we don't do things that way in this cowboy country? My fear is the same old crap will manifest with the new government whenever that happens. Ministers will be picked based on seniority or the fact they are from an "important constituency" rather than qualifications.

Government should be run in the same shrewd way as any private company. Loyalty should mean nothing and the right person for the job should get in regardless of how many feathers it ruffles among "the lads".

Why? Because he is a journalist and economist. He is on a very steep learning curve at the moment. Has to figure out the workings of the Dail and of constituency work. He needs to get all that right before he has the added workload of a Minister.

techdiver

mick_irl wrote: »

He is on a very steep learning curve at the moment. Has to figure out the workings of the Dail and of constituency work. He needs to get all that right before he has the added workload of a Minister.

I don't buy this learning curve thing at all. To look at some of the incompetent failures in the Dail derived from this political dynasty system, an outsider is just what the country needs, not someone who's got no concept of how the real world works as they have never lived outside the guise of politics or comfort they are used to.

mick_irl wrote: »

Why? Because he is a journalist and economist.

I suppose he is less qualified than the pair of solicitors that we currently have running our economy at the moment?

brettmirl

Oh don't get me wrong. He can do no worse than the bunch of muppets currently running the show.

He has a HUGE amount to contribute to policy, legislative decisions, etc. but I personally feel that he should get some experience as a politician and how things operate in the Oireachtas before making the big leap to being a Minister.

techdiver

mick_irl wrote: »

Oh don't get me wrong. He can do no worse than the bunch of muppets currently running the show.

He has a HUGE amount to contribute to policy, legislative decisions, etc. but I personally feel that he should get some experience as a politician and how things operate in the Oireachtas before making the big leap to being a Minister.

I understand your point, but I'm a firm believer in the "sink or swim" approach. My problem is, that our current system rewards longevity as opposed to suitability for particular positions in government. We never historically pick the correct person for the job, we just pick the person who is "next in line".

We deserve better than the likes of Lenehin as finance minister, or O'Cuiv as a minister at all. (I don't care that de Valera is you grandfather, it doesn't qualify you for anything!).

brettmirl

techdiver wrote: »

I understand your point, but I'm a firm believer in the "sink or swim" approach. My problem is, that our current system rewards longevity as opposed to suitability for particular positions in government. We never historically pick the correct person for the job, we just pick the person who is "next in line".

We deserve better than the likes of Lenehin as finance minister, or O'Cuiv as a minister at all. (I don't care that de Valera is you grandfather, it doesn't qualify you for anything!).

Agree with you. The "geography balance" is what annoys me most. Pick the best person based on ability, not on where they are from.

destroyer

How about rating each member of your prospective Cabinet out of 10 and comparing it to the present one to see if you believe a change of government would be a good thing?

eg Mary Coughlan ...1 Richard Bruton.......7

Brian Lenihan........2 Richard Bruton.......8 or Joan Burton ...7

Brendan Smith......0 Phil Hogan ........6

Mary Harney.......1 James Reilly .........5

Sh1t we need a new government !

dave-higgz

Ok so assuming it's a FF/Lab government only some things are certain:

Taoiseach Enda Kenny

Tánaiste Eamonn Gilmore (ministry unknown IMO)

Minister for Finance Richard Bruton (possibly George Lee)

• Minister for Health Dr James Riley (Universal Health is the cornerstone of FG's policy and they'll want their man in the job)

• Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment George Lee or Leo Varadkar

Everything else could change and all the other ministries are open to front bench representatives from both parties and from non front bench TD's.

Both George Lee and Leo Varadkar are relatively inexperienced and so I believe either one of them could take the job. What's clear is that the loser will get a junior ministry. George Lee has unemployment at the top of his priority list (he's even considering having his clinics at dole queues!) so he definitely has a shoe in there.

Here are the other people who I believe will have a seat at the cabinet table.

Labour:
Joan Burton
Jan O'Sullivan
Rurai Quinn

FG:
Olivia Mitchell
Simon Coveney
Michael Ring
Brian Hayes

ninty9er

• Minister for Health Dr James Riley (Universal Health is the cornerstone of FG's policy and they'll want their man in the job)

The man who negotiated the "gold-plated" medical card for the IMO, literally raping the state, is not at all the right person to deal with reform of the health service.

A doctor might be the right person the run a health service, but there's too much of a conflict of interest to have him reform it. Universal healthcare may be the cornerstone of FG's "policy", but in power, with a Doctor in the top office at Hawkins House, universal health care is about as likely as this forum becoming mainly pro-FF any time soon.

lostexpectation

arn't ruari quinn and pat rabbitte and howlin a bit old and already been there done that, you guys have not named anyone new from lab bar sean sherlock!

sean sherlock looks me of ff like barry andrews,over eager but inept and wet behind the ears

heres their current 'shadow cabinets'/spokepersons
http://www.labour.ie/peopleandplaces/spokespersons.html
http://www.finegael.ie/representatives/front/index.cfm/pkey/655

wouldn't environment and local government go to joanna tuffy ?

yes re ministerial geography we need one of those underlit tables with a map of ireland, avatars and long pushing sticks,

dave-higgz

ninty9er wrote: »

[/LIST]
The man who negotiated the "gold-plated" medical card for the IMO, literally raping the state, is not at all the right person to deal with reform of the health service.

A doctor might be the right person the run a health service, but there's too much of a conflict of interest to have him reform it. Universal healthcare may be the cornerstone of FG's "policy", but in power, with a Doctor in the top office at Hawkins House, universal health care is about as likely as this forum becoming mainly pro-FF any time soon.

Well sure if FG and Universal Healthcare fails then you'll have your pro-FF forum won't you

Victor

destroyer wrote: »

If he gets the same vote as he did last Friday and brings in a running mate (or two) Kenny wont dare leave him out, also FG are very concious of the importance of keeping a strong presence in Dublin where they were nearly wiped out under M Noonan.

FG currently have 3 TDs in 4-seater Dublin South. Meritorious or not, Lee won't be bringing anyone else unless he moves.

Zuiderzee

Everyone seems to pencil in Richard Bruton for Finance? Joan Burton is better suited IMO.

Leo Varadkar is a Doctor, been through the system in recent times - better for Health.

Sherlock I believe would be good on the environment, real interest in re-developing the sugar beet industry with relation to biofuels/ethanol, lets face it- he cant do any worse than the Greens have.

lostexpectation

is environment really the right minstery for redeveloping sugerbeet, agri surely. or shared junior with agri and eviron

people keep leaving out the local government part

destroyer

Zuiderzee wrote: »

Everyone seems to pencil in Richard Bruton for Finance? Joan Burton is better suited IMO.

It doesn't matter who is best suited, the job will be decided on the relative strengths of the two parties in government, that's just the way it is.

Badabing

Victor wrote: »

FG currently have 3 TDs in 4-seater Dublin South. Meritorious or not, Lee won't be bringing anyone else unless he moves.

I don't been to be bitantic but Dublin South is a 5 seater.

dave-higgz

Victor wrote: »

FG currently have 3 TDs in 4-seater Dublin South. Meritorious or not, Lee won't be bringing anyone else unless he moves.

It's a 5 seater and it'll be very hard to keep all 3 seats next General Election. Dublin South is the only Dublin constituency where FG has 2 seats or more.
In Dublin Central, Dublin Mid-West and Dublin North-West there is no Fine Gael representation in the dail while Fianna Fail has a seat in all 12 Dublin constituencies, with 7 of them having 2 FF seats.

mick_irl

mick_irl wrote: »

George Lee is not ready for a full ministerial position yet in my opinion, but would be a Minister of State at Finance or Enterprise.

Rubbish.
George Lee is more qualified to be Finance Minister than any T.D in the Dáil.
I'd propose him for Finance minister and Bruton for enterprise.

That would be grabbing the Bull by the Horns.

Joan Burton taking on the new role of deputy finance minister which would be a full position in Cabinet with voting rights.
A fully justifiable new position having abolished a few more of the superflous junior ministries.

Teamwork Folks Teamwork.

Zuiderzee

lostexpectation wrote: »

is environment really the right minstery for redeveloping sugerbeet, agri surely. or shared junior with agri and eviron

people keep leaving out the local government part

I think that it should be part of environments remit to find and develop cleaner, indigenous forms of energy, be it wind, wave or water.

The sugarbeet idea is to develop ethanol, creating a supply of cleaner fuel, and it is something that Sherlock has been involved in.
I was impressed by him and his ideas and views on this, its also a way of invigorating a weakening agri sector.