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Problems with Dublin City Council Valuations

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  • 09-06-2009 1:03pm
    #1
    superflyninja
    Registered Users Posts: 1,859 ✭✭✭


    I cant post the entire story yet but has anybody had any trouble with Dublin City council affordable housing valuations?


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    #2
    mathie
    Registered Users Posts: 5,102 ✭✭✭mathie


    Define 'trouble'


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    #3
    superflyninja
    Registered Users Posts: 1,859 ✭✭✭superflyninja


    mathie wrote: »
    Define 'trouble'
    well i kept it vague for the moment. but trouble with incorrect valuations.


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    #4
    stereo_steve
    Registered Users Posts: 1,226 ✭✭✭stereo_steve


    Elaborate further!

    I got offered AH apartments last week. I am not going to accept however as I feel they are a bad deal. 20% / 30% off the asking price of overpriced apartments != a good deal in my opinion


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    #5
    superflyninja
    Registered Users Posts: 1,859 ✭✭✭superflyninja


    stereo_steve wrote: »
    Elaborate further!

    I got offered AH apartments last week. I am not going to accept however as I feel they are a bad deal. 20% / 30% off the asking price of overpriced apartments != a good deal in my opinion

    but did you get the apartment valued independently?


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    #6
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,280 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    superflyninja wrote: »
    well i kept it vague for the moment. but trouble with incorrect valuations.

    What do you mean by 'incorrect valuations'?
    Values that are above the open market selling price of the units (if the OMSP is known)?
    As per above- have you had an independent valuation done?


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    #7
    superflyninja
    Registered Users Posts: 1,859 ✭✭✭superflyninja


    smccarrick wrote: »
    What do you mean by 'incorrect valuations'?
    Values that are above the open market selling price of the units (if the OMSP is known)?
    As per above- have you had an independent valuation done?

    ok long story short basically we were offered an affordable home. but it looks like the valuation the council had on the form we signed is based on an out of date valuation. The council are unwilling to drop the price to match the current market and so this is not 15-20% below OMSP which in turn disqualifiees us from an affordable mortgage.wondering if others had the same issue.


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    #8
    ntlbell
    Registered Users Posts: 16,288 ✭✭✭✭ntlbell


    superflyninja wrote: »
    ok long story short basically we were offered an affordable home. but it looks like the valuation the council had on the form we signed is based on an out of date valuation. The council are unwilling to drop the price to match the current market and so this is not 15-20% below OMSP which in turn disqualifiees us from an affordable mortgage.wondering if others had the same issue.

    I've heard of the situation and it's becoming common place.

    I think I heard someone mention on pat kenny one morning that it's due to be looked at.

    but if the house/apartment is cheaper on the open market, would it not make a hell of a lot more sense to go to the open market to buy it as it's more affordable than the affordable housing scheme?


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    #9
    superflyninja
    Registered Users Posts: 1,859 ✭✭✭superflyninja


    ntlbell wrote: »
    I've heard of the situation and it's becoming common place.

    I think I heard someone mention on pat kenny one morning that it's due to be looked at.

    but if the house/apartment is cheaper on the open market, would it not make a hell of a lot more sense to go to the open market to buy it as it's more affordable than the affordable housing scheme?
    nope.the place is cheaper on affordable however we cant get the affordable mortgage because its not cheap enough.to buy on the open market we would need a far greater deposit.which we dont have right now.


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    #10
    ntlbell
    Registered Users Posts: 16,288 ✭✭✭✭ntlbell


    superflyninja wrote: »
    nope.the place is cheaper on affordable however we cant get the affordable mortgage because its not cheap enough.to buy on the open market we would need a far greater deposit.which we dont have right now.

    you mean the asking price is less on affordable?

    that doesn't make it cheaper, what are similar properties _selling_ for in the area?

    prices are continuing to fall at a crazy rate the longer it goes on the smaller deposit you will require maybe find somewhere cheaper to rent or negotiate a rent reduction with your current land lord and hang on for a year or so

    blessing in disguise i'd say.


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    #11
    superflyninja
    Registered Users Posts: 1,859 ✭✭✭superflyninja


    ntlbell wrote: »
    you mean the asking price is less on affordable?

    that doesn't make it cheaper, what are similar properties _selling_ for in the area?

    prices are continuing to fall at a crazy rate the longer it goes on the smaller deposit you will require maybe find somewhere cheaper to rent or negotiate a rent reduction with your current land lord and hang on for a year or so

    blessing in disguise i'd say.
    why doesnt a smaller asking price by the council make a property cheaper? it seems the banks are dropping the lending rates also which still means you have to make up a hefty deposit


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    #12
    ntlbell
    Registered Users Posts: 16,288 ✭✭✭✭ntlbell


    superflyninja wrote: »
    why doesnt a smaller asking price by the council make a property cheaper? it seems the banks are dropping the lending rates also which still means you have to make up a hefty deposit

    because the asking price of a similar house doesn't mean it will be more expensive to buy it, you need to compare the _selling_ price against it.

    you can bargain down the private sale and get it up to 40% cheaper than the asking price

    you can't do that with the council, there's no movement on it.

    they're still giving out 92% so your 8% is dropping all the time as home's are dropping does that not make sense?

    much cheaper home = much smaller deposit and your not tied into the council

    i don't know why i bother getting into this sometimes..


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    #13
    superflyninja
    Registered Users Posts: 1,859 ✭✭✭superflyninja


    ntlbell wrote: »
    because the asking price of a similar house doesn't mean it will be more expensive to buy it, you need to compare the _selling_ price against it.

    you can bargain down the private sale and get it up to 40% cheaper than the asking price

    you can't do that with the council, there's no movement on it.

    they're still giving out 92% so your 8% is dropping all the time as home's are dropping does that not make sense?

    much cheaper home = much smaller deposit and your not tied into the council

    i don't know why i bother getting into this sometimes..
    aaaaaaaahhhhhh i got ya!!!!!! wow 40%??


    BTW im here to get some information.I dont know that perhaps 40% of the value of a house could be bargained off.


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    #14
    ntlbell
    Registered Users Posts: 16,288 ✭✭✭✭ntlbell


    superflyninja wrote: »
    aaaaaaaahhhhhh i got ya!!!!!! wow 40%??


    BTW im here to get some information.I dont know that perhaps 40% of the value of a house could be bargained off.

    well you don't know what % can be bargained of a particular house untill you get involved in it

    the point been you don't know what's cheaper at the moment because you don't know what similar is selling for so you're assuming it's affordable based on over inflated asking prices.

    the drops are getting bigger all the time it's not slowing up or "stablising" in anyway every mont you rent you're saving thousands

    go to a bank ask them for some figures based on your income.

    find some houses you like and start firing in some low ball offers and see what comes back

    you have nothing to loose really.


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    #15
    superflyninja
    Registered Users Posts: 1,859 ✭✭✭superflyninja


    ntlbell wrote: »
    well you don't know what % can be bargained of a particular house untill you get involved in it

    the point been you don't know what's cheaper at the moment because you don't know what similar is selling for so you're assuming it's affordable based on over inflated asking prices.

    the drops are getting bigger all the time it's not slowing up or "stablising" in anyway every mont you rent you're saving thousands

    go to a bank ask them for some figures based on your income.

    find some houses you like and start firing in some low ball offers and see what comes back

    you have nothing to loose really.
    The point of the thread was to find out about other offers of affordable housing the council has made to people. Thanks for the advice on buying privately but that is largely irrelevant in this context at least.


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    #16
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,297 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    superflyninja wrote: »
    The point of the thread was to find out about other offers of affordable housing the council has made to people. Thanks for the advice on buying privately but that is largely irrelevant in this context at least.
    It's pretty much a case of finding out how much the banks will give you now, for the deposit you have now, and see what houses you can get.


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    #17
    ntlbell
    Registered Users Posts: 16,288 ✭✭✭✭ntlbell


    superflyninja wrote: »
    The point of the thread was to find out about other offers of affordable housing the council has made to people. Thanks for the advice on buying privately but that is largely irrelevant in this context at least.


    And my point was you're about to get yourself into a life of heartache and pain when there's simply no need.

    I'll refrain from giving you anymore advise.


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    #18
    superflyninja
    Registered Users Posts: 1,859 ✭✭✭superflyninja


    ntlbell wrote: »
    And my point was you're about to get yourself into a life of heartache and pain when there's simply no need.

    I'll refrain from giving you anymore advise.

    I think you misunderstand. I said in an earlier post that i cannot get mortgage approval for affordable housing based on the price the council has set. So your advice is irrelevant in this context as it isnt actually buying advice I was looking for, I was looking for others having a similar experience with the affordable housing that I had.


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    #19
    ntlbell
    Registered Users Posts: 16,288 ✭✭✭✭ntlbell


    superflyninja wrote: »
    I think you misunderstand. I said in an earlier post that i cannot get mortgage approval for affordable housing based on the price the council has set. So your advice is irrelevant in this context as it isnt actually buying advice I was looking for, I was looking for others having a similar experience with the affordable housing that I had.

    No it's not.

    you WILL get mortgage approval to buy A HOME you can afford.

    as the open market continues to fall the deposit REQUIRED will keep getting SMALLER.

    so if you wait, rent and save you will build up a deposit and the bank will give you a mortgage based on getting a good deal on a house in the open market because it WILL be a lot cheaper than the affordable home...

    where's that head off the wall smiley..


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    #20
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,280 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Ok- guys- calm down.

    superflyninja- there is a big problem- the various councils bought most of the stock they currently have from developers 2-3 years ago (in many cases off the plans) and the prices they are quoting for them as 'affordable houses' bear very little cognisance of the carnage that has happened (and is continuing to happen) in the housing market. This means that they are sitting on vast stocks of vacant property- that they are unwilling to write down in value.

    People on the affordable housing lists/schemes- quite simply aren't purchasing- why would they- when they purchase on the open market, without the strings of the AH scheme- for less money. In addition- the market sentiment is that prices are going to continue to fall- in the cases of apartments/townhouses/properties in managed estates/properties in non-mature areas- by significant amounts.

    It is inevitable that at some stage the councils are going to have to take their heads out of the sand- and accept that if they genuinely wish to sell their AH properties- that they are going to have to revalue them (significantly).

    There have been numerous articles written lately on this (the business post are normally good on this one)


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    #21
    superflyninja
    Registered Users Posts: 1,859 ✭✭✭superflyninja


    ntlbell wrote: »
    No it's not.

    you WILL get mortgage approval to buy A HOME you can afford.

    as the open market continues to fall the deposit REQUIRED will keep getting SMALLER.

    so if you wait, rent and save you will build up a deposit and the bank will give you a mortgage based on getting a good deal on a house in the open market because it WILL be a lot cheaper than the affordable home...

    where's that head off the wall smiley..

    *removed*


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    #22
    superflyninja
    Registered Users Posts: 1,859 ✭✭✭superflyninja


    smccarrick wrote: »
    Ok- guys- calm down.

    superflyninja- there is a big problem- the various councils bought most of the stock they currently have from developers 2-3 years ago (in many cases off the plans) and the prices they are quoting for them as 'affordable houses' bear very little cognisance of the carnage that has happened (and is continuing to happen) in the housing market. This means that they are sitting on vast stocks of vacant property- that they are unwilling to write down in value.

    People on the affordable housing lists/schemes- quite simply aren't purchasing- why would they- when they purchase on the open market, without the strings of the AH scheme- for less money. In addition- the market sentiment is that prices are going to continue to fall- in the cases of apartments/townhouses/properties in managed estates/properties in non-mature areas- by significant amounts.

    It is inevitable that at some stage the councils are going to have to take their heads out of the sand- and accept that if they genuinely wish to sell their AH properties- that they are going to have to revalue them (significantly).

    There have been numerous articles written lately on this (the business post are normally good on this one)
    Cheers for this. Ill keep my eye on the business post in future. I had heard also that unsold affordable homes can be given to social housing?


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    #23
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,280 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    superflyninja wrote: »
    Cheers for this. Ill keep my eye on the business post in future. I had heard also that unsold affordable homes can be given to social housing?

    Not necessarily- there are agreements that percentages in developments wouldn't be above certain levels for AH units, Social Housing- and they may or may not be interchangeable (it depends on when the purchase went through- the rules have been revised several times).


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