Camper van conversion, few vrt questions

Timmaay

Hi, I picked up a '98 fiat ducato (mwb, high roof) for going away to motorbike events. I'm considering converting it to a campervan, but am not sure of wheather its worth it or not, so have a few questions for all of ya!

The van weights about 1500kg, and has a gvw of 3200, so I'm guessing its going to be way too much effort to try get it up to the 3ton mark. I know the vrt is 12.5% OMSP on all campers under 3ton, can anyone tell me how the OMSP is worked out, is it based on a realistic valuation of the camper or what? A '98 fiat ducato is worth max 1000euros, and I'm not really planning on spending a great deal converting it, I wont be sleeping in it more than 2nights at a time (so I'm thinking 2 berth, sink/2 ring hob etc, enough for it to be classified as a camper). I'll say I'll get away with 1000quid doing the conversion myself. But will the vrt inspecter put a much higher value on the campervan and leave me with a large amount of vrt to pay?

If I keep it a van, insurance is going to work out about 700/800quid a year for me, and 280tax a year, against 420 for tax and insurance as a camper, so there is definate savings once the initial cost of the vrt inspection/engineers report and vrt on it isnt too high.

OuterBombie

Howdy,

This is what I know about it. A decent search of the forum would probably yield more information and/or some of the more experienced users will chime in.

The tax office look at the OMSP of the camper not of the original van so even though a 98 ducato is worth about the same as a choc ice, a 98 ducato camper is worth considerably more. If you take a look at some of the second hand sites you'll see converted Masters/Transits and the like from the same year or even older for sale at up to 15 grand, the revenue see this and charge you the VRT rate on that value.

However it seems that its not often that bad (although it can be), mainly the tax office inspect the van and price it somewhat realistic so if its a basic conversion, then they'll won't price it as high. Some places don't price it at all!

The dilemma (as I see it) is that you won't know till you go and its probably better to be prepared for them to price it at a value thats way above what you think its worth.

Insure as camper vs privately, probably best to sit down and do the sums for 5 years use, assuming you'll get that out of the van.

Ray.

Billy Bunting

I'm currently looking into clearing my citreon relay conversion, my problem is that i think i made to nice a job and am worried they will hammer me for doing so. I popped into the local revenue office for a little advice, they tell me that all they will do is take pictures of inside and out, note the milage, then send all off to their "section" that puts the price on it.
My conversion was a straight forward insertion of an old Autosleeper interior taken from an old Talbot Express, when i asked the nice revenue man if they would deduct my expense in purchasing the donor vehicle and my 3 months work, he hinted that he thought i maybe wise to keep these cost to a minimum as these expenses will actually increase the end value of the camper, and as such increase my VRT payment, i'm now concerned weather the nice man was hinting correctly, if i put a low value on my expenses and it was wrong info and they do actually deduct these expenses then i'm buggered as i can't exactly change my story.
Anyone out there with any knowledge on this ??

merc camper

I did not pay any VRT on my camper conversion.
I brought it to the tax office in Clondalkin and they inspected it to see if it was a camper. They just changed the log book to make it a camper and charged me I think €85 for the tax for the year.
I know other people who converted vans they did not pay any VRT just went straight to the tax office no problems

Billy Bunting

Interesting!! Did they not take pictures and put a value on it and check it met the spec for campervan ?

merc camper

They had a quick look at it they took no photos. They were not interested in its value. They are a tax office they are only interested in if it meets the campervan criteria so they can tax it and change the status of it from a van to camper van

Billy Bunting

i think we are talking about 2 different things, you road tax, me VRT, looking back over your posts i note your van is over the 3000kg weight limit where you have the VRT applies rule, my van is under 3000kg and as such VRT is payable, my post is looking for advise on how to keep my VRT to a minimum and do i claim the full cost of doing the conversion ?.

merc camper

I was never asked the weight of my van just went to the tax office and they had a quick look at it and changed the log book. I did not go to the VRT office as my van is already registered in Ireland. VRT only applies when importing a camper van. U are just looking for a change on the log book

smythx

Hi all
On a similar note i'm looking into doing something similar to timmay like buying a sprinter and using it to transfer the motorbikes to race events and sleep in the van the night before. however i'm not to clear on how the insurace works cause when i rang FBD and told them that i was going using the van to transport motorbikes they refused to qoute me!! they said horses,surfing,bicycling..etc were fine but once they heard motorsport they practically slammed the phone down!!:mad:.
I'm wondering can you get the vans insured as regular vans and then taxed as campers?or do the insurance company ask for tax documents? Ive tried asking people at race events but i cant get a straight answer out of any of them so id say most are probably chancing there leg and not actually insured.
any advice would be greatly appriaciated

Timmaay

Hmm, I might just do a basic conversion and try the Clondalkin tax office so, worst case the vrt will be silly, I'll still have to tax it as a van and wont have spent too much converting it.

Smythx, I don't know what motorbike events you go to but any of the lads at mx events with a converted campervan definately have it properly insured as a camper and certainly aren't chancing their leg? An insurance cert isn't worth the paper its printed on if you lie to the insurance company and will leave ya in some mess if you have an accident!

smythx

yea but there are only two companies in the country that insure campers and if you look at there terms and conditions they say that the camper must only be used for the purpose of a holiday camper and not a mode of transport for sporting activites like horses or bikes etc. so thats what confusing me cause once you put a bike into the camper you are making your insurance void. so there must be some loop hole around this and its driving me nuts that i cant find it!!

coldsurfer

lads, I'm going to the vro in tallaght tomorrow to get the low-down on all of this. will let you know how I get on.

smythx

legend hopefully you can clear up some of these questions

dowtchaboy

Billy Bunting wrote: »

when i asked the nice revenue man if they would deduct my expense in purchasing the donor vehicle and my 3 months work, he hinted that he thought i maybe wise to keep these cost to a minimum as these expenses will actually increase the end value of the camper, and as such increase my VRT payment, i'm now concerned weather the nice man was hinting correctly, if i put a low value on my expenses and it was wrong info and they do actually deduct these expenses.

I think your Revenue guy was being very helpful to you. Forget about logic - the VRT system is daft - but it's the law and the Revenue apply the law as it stands. The Vehicle REGISTRATION Tax you will have to pay is calculated on the OMSP - which is the Open Market Selling Price - ie what an Irish registered similar camper would be sell for in Ireland. They don't care what you paid for the base vehicle, what your expenses were in importing or modifying it, though they might ask you these questions to help them make up their minds as to its sale value. In other words any costs that you incurred do not reduce the tax you pay - they may increase it! If you do a super-duper job in converting which raises the value of the van then yes you will pay more VRT! Crazy situation isn't it? Having said that, home conversions have LOW resale value - have a look at the ads - a home conversion job in matter how well done would sell for half to a third (my guess) what a similar age and spec genuine "coachbuilt" camper.

coldsurfer

coldsurfer wrote: »

lads, I'm going to the vro in tallaght tomorrow to get the low-down on all of this. will let you know how I get on.

sorry guys, didn't make it in there last week. I rang on friday but it just seemed like the chap I was talking to was unsure of what I was asking him so I agreed to drop all questions in a mail to them. Will report back asap.

coldsurfer

Donnchadh1

Hey,

BE AWARE. We imported a UK campervan there a couple of weeks ago my Dad brought it into VRO office to have it registered.

Before it was weighed the VR Officer made him take out the generator, spare leisure battery and then emptied the water tank.

We had enquired in another VRO as to the process and were told that it was not going to cost us anything to have it weighed. The local office where he brought it charged us €25. When he mentioned that he would take it to the other place the officer would not allow him to do this. The supervisor then came out and assured my dad that he would either have to go through with the process that day or re export the campervan.

When it was weighed it came in at 2980kg. He approached the officer who was dealing with the case and said that we are going to make other adjustments that would certainly bring it over the threshold i.e night heater, air conditiong and some more berth. He was told that it was the weight it was and that was it. There was no talking this person and from what I understand was unhelpful and unfriendly. We are now waiting for the Rosslare to put the market value on it and then are subject to 13% for vrt.

Depending what it is market value we may have to consider putting it up for sale and exporting as my dad has just retired and we are on a budget.
I think it may be a good idea to drop into a VRO before hand and discuss your options and find some reasonable VR officer.

coldsurfer

coldsurfer wrote: »

sorry guys, didn't make it in there last week. I rang on friday but it just seemed like the chap I was talking to was unsure of what I was asking him so I agreed to drop all questions in a mail to them. Will report back asap.

coldsurfer

Here's the reply from Dublin South County VRO

[font=&quot]Dear X[/font]

[font=&quot]Thank you for your e-mail.[/font]

[font=&quot](A) Camper vans more than 3 tonnes unladen weight when weighed at an approved weighbridge, under customs supervision, will qualify for VRT at a flat rate of €50.00. A full tank of petrol/ diesel is allowed at time of weighing.[/font]
[font=&quot](B) For campers under 3 tonne, they may qualify for the 13.3% VRT rate if they meet the following requirments:[/font]
[font=&quot](1) The FLOOR to CEILING height must EXCEED 1.8 metres (70.87 inchs) at its lowest height.[/font]
[font=&quot](2) The camper must have a cooker with at LEAST 2 cooking rings.[/font]
[font=&quot](3) A sink unit must also be in the vehicle.[/font]
[font=&quot](C) If the camper is under 3 tonnes and does NOT meet the criteria set out at "B" above then the FULL rates of VRT will apply.[/font]
[font=&quot]These are as follows: [/font]
[font=&quot]The following is a broad outline of the regulations regarding the importing of NEW & USED vehicles into the State from another EU State:[/font]
[font=&quot]VRT is payable by BANK DRAFT, CHEQUE or LASER CARD (limit of €1500.00) made payable to the REVENUE COMMISSIONERS. If payment is made by Cheque the cheque presented must be in the name of the owner of the vehicle. Driving Licence or Passport must be presented as I.D.[/font]
[font=&quot]Vehicle Registration Tax is payable at the following rates: Up to 1400cc the rate is 22.5% of the Irish open market selling price. From 1401cc to 1900 cc incl the rate is 25% of the Irish open market selling price. Over 1901 cc the rate is 30% of the Irish open market selling price. [/font]
[font=&quot]In the cases of Category A ( cars) and Category B (small carvans) vehicles the chargeable value for calculation of VRT is based on the open market selling price (OMSP) of the vehicle at the time of charging the tax.[/font]
[font=&quot]The OMSP of a NEW vehicle is the price of the vehicle declared to the Revenue Commissioners by a manufactuer or sole distributor which is inclusive of all taxes and duties which that model, including any enhancements or accessories, and which in the declarant`s opinion might reasonably be expected to fetch on a first arm`s length sale thereof in the open market in the State by retail.[/font]
[font=&quot]The OMSP of a USED vehicle is the price which in the opinion of the Commissioners the vehicle might reasonably be expected to fetch on a first arm`s length sale in the State. The tax is payable at the time of registration of the vehicle. For used vehicles age, condition, mileage and fitted extras will be taken into consideration. The OMSP will be calculated by the VRO on the basis of information provided and by physical examination of the vehicle.[/font]
[font=&quot]The actual amount of VRT payable will be determined at the time of registration in the State following an inspection of the vehicle. The amount of VRT may be increased to take account of accessories or optional extras not mentioned in your enquiry. [/font]
[font=&quot]You are strongly advised to recheck the VRT payable on any vehicle that you intend to bring into the State before doing so, as the Open Market Selling Price (OMSP) may be changed over time and consequently the amount of VRT payable. [/font]
[font=&quot]VAT ON "NEW" VEHICLES ACQUIRED WITHIN THE EU:[/font]
[font=&quot]Motor vehicles which have less than 6000 kms or are less than 6 months old on the date of registration in the State are liable to 21% VAT. VAT is payable in the State, whether or not the VAT was paid in the country of exportation. If VAT was paid in the country of exportation, then a refund can be sought from the VAT authorities in that country. Irish VAT is charged on the invoice price, less the VAT paid in the country of export (if VAT was paid) converted into Euro at the Customs monthly exchange rate in operation for the calandar month in which the vehicle is produced for re-registration. Vehicles with MORE than 6000kms AND are OVER 6 months old there is NO VAT payable if ACQUIRED WITHIN the EU. VAT is payable on NEW and USED cars IMPORTED from OUTSIDE the EU.[/font]
[font=&quot]The above VRT regulations apply to both NEW and USED vehicles brought into the State. Private individuals importing cars are required by law to produce the vehicle(s) at a VRO and pay the appropriate VRT & VAT ( if due) WITHIN 24 hours or by the end of the next working day.[/font]

[font=&quot]VRO`s IN THE DUBLIN AREA:[/font]
[font=&quot](1) Furry Park Industrial Estate, Santry, Dublin 9 Tel: 8579800.[/font]
[font=&quot](2) St. John`s House, High St, Tallaght, Dublin 24, Tel 4149700[/font]
[font=&quot]The VRT & VAT is payable at these centres.[/font]
[font=&quot]You will have to supply me with the following information on the commercial vehicle and the cost of converting the van to a camper:[/font]
[font=&quot](a) reg year of van (reg no if Irish registered)[/font]
[font=&quot](b) Make and model of van[/font]
[font=&quot](c) No of doors[/font]
[font=&quot](d) Engine cc[/font]
[font=&quot](e) Petrol or Diesel[/font]
[font=&quot](f) Value of van as of [/font]
[font=&quot](g) Cost of the conversion to a camper including VAT[/font]
[font=&quot]I will then forward this information to Rosslare CVO to get a VRT amount payable on the vehicle as a camper. [/font]
[font=&quot]
[/font]
[font=&quot]X[/font]
[font=&quot]Dublin South County Customer Services.[/font]

coldsurfer

Though one Donnchadh1. I was advised when building my 311 to ensure I was well over the 3000kg i.e. at least 100kg. I weighted it on a certified weightbridge, gave the cert to VRO who forwarded it and all other documents to Rosslare who gave it their blessing - no supervised weight-in!

coldsurfer

btw, if anyone is looking for the VRO VRT guidelines and has an hour of your life to waste sometime you can find all manuals here:
http://www.revenue.ie/en/about/foi/s16/vehicle-registration-tax/index.html

SoulRock

i know this is an old thread but am just wondering what the situation is now with height requirements to register a van as a camper, ive been looking at a van that has a professional campervan conversion inside and was wondering if it could be registered as a camper.. think i heard that the 1.8 meter thing does not apply anymore.. can anyone confirm

moodrater

SoulRock wrote: »

i know this is an old thread but am just wondering what the situation is now with height requirements to register a van as a camper, ive been looking at a van that has a professional campervan conversion inside and was wondering if it could be registered as a camper.. think i heard that the 1.8 meter thing does not apply anymore.. can anyone confirm

1.8 meter requirement is gone wrt VRT

SoulRock

moodrater wrote: »

1.8 meter requirement is gone wrt VRT

Cool nice one

Laurenrafferty

I'm thinking of putting extra seats into my van. I have a 2007 nissan primastar highroof and i'm wondering how much the vechicle regerstration and is there any other hidden costs.

paddyp

Laurenrafferty wrote: »

I'm thinking of putting extra seats into my van. I have a 2007 nissan primastar highroof and i'm wondering how much the vechicle regerstration and is there any other hidden costs.

Is it commercial? Cheapest way to put seats in a commercial is to crewcab it 50% of the floor area has to be load space seperated by a bulkhead, be aware that legally you're only allowed to carry passengers in relation to your business so if you get stopped with the kids in the back you'll be in trouble.