*Gait Analysis* - Get it Done!!

kennyb3

To all new runners or anybody who has not had this done, make sure you go and get it done! i was running for 3/4 months with no problems - thought all is great until i developed an achilles problem from wearing runners that had too soft cushioning in them. im slowly recovering but it has really set me back. I went to runways on sat and got fitted with nike air zoom elite 4+. managed my first pain free run yesterday and unusually woke up with no pain in my achilles.

the value of having the right runners cannot be underestimated. please go get it done you ll be glad you did. just because you ve no problems now doesnt mean one wont develop. prevention over cure!!

Brian

runningman1980

kennyb3 wrote: »

To all new runners or anybody who has not had this done, make sure you go and get it done! i was running for 3/4 months with no problems - thought all is great until i developed an achilles problem from wearing runners that had too soft cushioning in them. im slowly recovering but it has really set me back. I went to runways on sat and got fitted with nike air zoom elite 4+. managed my first pain free run yesterday and unusually woke up with no pain in my achilles.

the value of having the right runners cannot be underestimated. please go get it done you ll be glad you did. just because you ve no problems now doesnt mean one wont develop. prevention over cure!!

Brian

Hi, will check it out, where is runways and how much did it cost?

kennyb3

runningman1980 wrote: »

Hi, will check it out, where is runways and how much did it cost?

parnell street. doesnt cost a thing.

DublinDilbert

kennyb3 wrote: »

parnell street. doesnt cost a thing.

where on parnell street? Are they open on Saturdays?

hunnymonster

Parnell street isn't that long! Come out the back of the Ilac centre and it's about 11 o'clock from the door (beside the cycle store). Open on saturday but I guess like most shops, they are busiest at weekends so if you want someone to spend a bit more time with you, easier to get that time during the week.

ntlbell

is there any sort of obligation to buy from them if you get it done there?

i noticed a couple of threads one recently where someone got it done and they were advised on two shoes and both were totally different shoes which didn't make much sense to me

Racing Flat

ntlbell wrote: »

is there any sort of obligation to buy from them if you get it done there?

No.

Racing Flat

ntlbell wrote: »

i noticed a couple of threads one recently where someone got it done and they were advised on two shoes and both were totally different shoes which didn't make much sense to me

You could do a little experiment...go to Champion Sports in the Jervis Centre and get it done, then go to runways - if they both recommend the same type of shoe, then buy where you wish, if they conflict, go to Elvery's on Suffolk Street, or wherever else do it and keep going until you get a consensus, or make your own mind up that gait analysis isn't all that.

kennyb3

Racing Flat wrote: »

You could do a little experiment...go to Champion Sports in the Jervis Centre and get it done, then go to runways - if they both recommend the same type of shoe, then buy where you wish, if they conflict, go to Elvery's on Suffolk Street, or wherever else do it and keep going until you get a consensus, or make your own mind up that gait analysis isn't all that.

this is what i done. i am bow legged and an underpronator. ie i land on the outside of my foot and roll all the way in . by the way thanks to yourself and mrak for your help.

kennyb3

runningman1980 wrote: »

Hi, will check it out, where is runways and how much did it cost?

i actually regret replying to you having read your idiotic comments on other threads. this is a friendly community and until you start acting like a sane and rational human being i dont think anybody will take you seriously, welcome you or give you advice

PS sorry for going off subject here

tunney

Devils advocate.

I've had gait analysis done multiple times in multiple shops. In the end none of the runners recommended worked for me, some were shocking, some close but just not right.
I ended up spending time researching foot type, shoe type and then settling on what I felt matched my foot, my gait and my style. That worked. At the end of the day no one knows youy body more than you.

hunnymonster

true tunney but you've a lot of experience. For a newbie, who doesn't know their biomechnaics yet, a specialist shop is almost guaranteed to get it better than the new runner will.

kennyb3

tunney wrote: »

Devils advocate.

I've had gait analysis done multiple times in multiple shops. In the end none of the runners recommended worked for me, some were shocking, some close but just not right.
I ended up spending time researching foot type, shoe type and then settling on what I felt matched my foot, my gait and my style. That worked. At the end of the day no one knows youy body more than you.

Did the research take much work? did you adjust your running form in any way?

Stupid_Private

kennyb3 wrote: »

the value of having the right runners cannot be underestimated. please go get it done you ll be glad you did. just because you ve no problems now doesnt mean one wont develop. prevention over cure!!

I'd say if you've no problems don't get it done. I'd no problems at all, went to a place and they suggested a different type of shoe to me - they showed me everything on the video as to why this new shoe would work better for me. All seemed to make sense. Within two months my achilles was in bits. Changed back to the old shoe type and the problem was resolved in just over a week. If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

RacoonQueen

is this medical advice?

Like Tunney I do it for my self, I know I'm a supinator and if I hadn't known looking at photos of myself from races and lookng at my old shoes would have told me the same. Nimbus work great for me, when my last pair were done. Reseached for a pair of brooks and mizunos to try something different, mizunos took a bit of gettng used to but they were great. I mght go for a gait analysis though just to see what they say.

TheRoadRunner

Racing Flat wrote: »

or make your own mind up that gait analysis isn't all that.

Hey RF, what's your take on gait analysis ? I've never felt the need to get it done myself so can't comment. Different people seem to have very different opinions on it's potential benefits.

tunney

hunnymonster wrote: »

true tunney but you've a lot of experience. For a newbie, who doesn't know their biomechnaics yet, a specialist shop is almost guaranteed to get it better than the new runner will.

As I said - just playing devils advocate. I still tell people to get gait analysis done - but the cavaet would be if it doesn't feel right then listen to yourself

Bambaata

i got a gait analysis done late last year in runways. i was told there were no issues with my right foot but i needed them for the left. i tried a few different pairs until i settled on them. I did however get slight niggles in my right calf and foot so i decided id try somewhere else to check his evaluation.

i went to amphibian king on Saturday. Turns out he also recommended the same type but he did say i needed a size bigger. I use to get a sharp shooting pain in the longest toe on my right foot after id have done about 15km so it must have been that my foot was swelling a bit and combined with shoes being too small i was getting the pain. now that i've been recommended the same pair twice I'll be buying online in future.

kennyb3

Stupid_Private wrote: »

I'd say if you've no problems don't get it done. I'd no problems at all, went to a place and they suggested a different type of shoe to me - they showed me everything on the video as to why this new shoe would work better for me. All seemed to make sense. Within two months my achilles was in bits. Changed back to the old shoe type and the problem was resolved in just over a week. If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

just out of curiosity what was the place? what do you wear and what did they recommend. i guess what im getting at is that the right pair of runners makes a big difference, as it did for you. i was wearing adiwear runners which have very soft cushioning however i need much more

thirstywork

kennyb3 wrote: »

this is what i done. i am bow legged and an underpronator. ie i land on the outside of my foot and roll all the way in . by the way thanks to yourself and mrak for your help.

what you just said doesn't make sense,was this the advise you where given?
You say you land on the outside of the foot and roll all the way in,if this is the case you are an overpronator,first inital contact will be on the outside,its what happens after this.

Stupid_Private

kennyb3 wrote: »

just out of curiosity what was the place? what do you wear and what did they recommend. i guess what im getting at is that the right pair of runners makes a big difference, as it did for you. i was wearing adiwear runners which have very soft cushioning however i need much more

I was running in Kayanos and went to a Nimbus - ie structured to neutral. As I said the running style looked fine with the Nimbus but they just didn't work out. I wouldn't hold the shop to blame for it - it's really a case of if everything is working out for you then there's no need to change. At the moment I want to get out of the Kayanos for the simple reason being that they seem to be the most bloody expensive runners out there!

kennyb3

thirstywork wrote: »

what you just said doesn't make sense,was this the advise you where given?
You say you land on the outside of the foot and roll all the way in,if this is the case you are an overpronator,first inital contact will be on the outside,its what happens after this.

you are right, overpronator!! sorry for the confusion

ManFromAtlantis

when new to running last year i bought kayano14 (€150) didnt know anything about over or under pronating etc and never asked / never advised. anyways did gait analysis recently and saw that i was fairly neutral but a bit of a turn/roll of the foot inwards nothing too serious. i was recommended nike zoom and so far seem fine. no shin splints with these but this might not be the reason for this?. anyways moral of the story..........esp if your a newbie then the most expensive shoe may not be the best.!!

ManFromAtlantis

kennyb3 wrote: »

To all new runners or anybody who has not had this done, make sure you go and get it done! i was running for 3/4 months with no problems - thought all is great until i developed an achilles problem from wearing runners that had too soft cushioning in them. im slowly recovering but it has really set me back. I went to runways on sat and got fitted with nike air zoom elite 4+. managed my first pain free run yesterday and unusually woke up with no pain in my achilles.

the value of having the right runners cannot be underestimated. please go get it done you ll be glad you did. just because you ve no problems now doesnt mean one wont develop. prevention over cure!!

Brian

sounds like your not leaving us completely for the bike so !;)

kennyb3

ManFromAtlantis wrote: »

sounds like your not leaving us completely for the bike so !;)

nah i ll try be a duathlete instead

kennyb3

ManFromAtlantis wrote: »

i was recommended nike zoom and so far seem fine. no shin splints with these but this might not be the reason for this?. quote]

i presume from this you previously had shin problems?

griffin100

I've had gait analysis done multiple times in multiple shops. In the end none of the runners recommended worked for me, some were shocking, some close but just not right.
I ended up spending time researching foot type, shoe type and then settling on what I felt matched my foot, my gait and my style. That worked. At the end of the day no one knows youy body more than you.

I had gait analysis done in Amphibian King last december. Diagnosed as a slight pronator. After I started to wear my new runners my right knee began to suffer some serious pain (this was the side with the pronation). Went to physio who diagnosed cartlidge probems. He assumed that as I had gait analysis done that my footwear was ok. Long story short, it was the new runners that were causing me the problems. Back to neutral runners now and since the day I went back to them I haven't had a single probkem. Makes me a bit dubious about the gait analysis thing.

ManFromAtlantis

ya have gotten pains in shins but always just about kept at bay by easing up. but always there in the background esp after a heavy week.

Racing Flat

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

Hey RF, what's your take on gait analysis ? I've never felt the need to get it done myself so can't comment. Different people seem to have very different opinions on it's potential benefits.

1) it's over-prescribed/utilised (my opinion here may be more relevant to orthotics)
2) the people doing the analysis may not always have adequate training/expertise
3) the tools used for the analysis may not be too reliable, valid etc.

1) if you had a bad back and were bent over and went to see someone and they said 'use this stick against your chest to force you upright' you'd probably turn on your heels and get out the door. yet when people go to see someone with a lower llimb injury and the person says, 'you need orthotics' they seem to say 'ok, where can I sign the cheque'.

Fair enough if you have a structural foot problem, orthotics may be the solution. But for a lot of poeple they have a dynamic flat foot, i.e. when standing up, weight-bearing, they are flat footed/fallen arches but when they are lying down, their arches are fine (if it is a structural problem, i.e. born with your feet in that position, pes planus, it will be the same whteher you are standing or lying). In the dynamic case it is often a lower limb biomechanics problem as opposed to a local foot biomechanics problem, often weak hip muscles which lead to slight rotation of the thigh bones and in turn shin bones and ultimately the arches of the feet appear fallen. As an experiment, if you stand up and look at your arches in the mirror. Now, keep looking at your arched as you squeeze your buttocks (gluteal muscles). You may well see your arches rise. What you have done is worked your gluteals which willl externally rotate your femurs, the knock on effect being that your arches rise up. So in this case, issuing orthotics, or prescibing a motion control shoe may only treat the effect rather than the cause - addressing the weak gluteal muscles would be a better long term solution. Also some muscles around the lower leg/foot e.g. tibialis posterior, function to keep a good arch - if these are weak, the arch may fall, so strengthening this muscle can restore arch height.

Also, I think any problem should be signifiant before it needs to be 'corrected'. All of us will have slight over or under pronation - we'll all lie somewhere on the continuum. So unless if it is something quite obvious to the naked eye, I wouldn't worry too much about it. If you can't work out whether the person is over or underpronating just by jogging behind them and watching, then any problem is not big enough to warrant fixing, IMO.

So in summary, I think that all foot problems tend to get umbrella'd under the structural type, while the majority are probably dynamic and so identifying the cause (rather than treating the effect) may be more appropriate. ss43 alluded to this recently.

2) It's good if the person has a knowledge of gait analysis but also endurance running. Many people in the shops doing the analysis may not undertsan the needs of a runner too well. From that point of view, thristywork knows his stuff.

3) Some of the scanning equipment they use, well I wonder if it's a bit gimicky, but I don't know a lot about it.

Finally, I think runners themselves overanalyse these things. They often worry excessively about running on road too much, whether they're wearing the right shoe etc. If they are comfortable and you are not getting injured, then don't go changing, IMHO.

I was inside in runways one day and there was a fellow getting advice from the assistant there. The assistant as giving him great advice, but the runner was so stressed about whether the shoe would be right for him or not, he kept going on and on and on with 'but my coach said I run like this, my friend said I need to do this, haile Geb wears this shoe...', and the assistant was so patient, I imagine it happens a lot.

The very last word! Seems to be an obsession with kayanos among a lot of runners I know, typically marathon runners. They seem to have this reputation of being a major protective shoe - spend the extra money, bear the extra weight and you'll have less chance of getting injured...

And an obsession with orthotics. Most people who have these possibly don't need them IMO.

Similarly, everyone seems to think they are overpronators, many are supinators and need cushioned shoes rather than motion control. There was an experiment done before the Dublin marathon at the expo a few years ago, where people's foot type was measured. Now wait for the shock horror results, 25% had lower arches than normal, 50% were normal and 25% had higher arches than normal!!! From a random sample of 60.

RR - sorry for asking now?

TheRoadRunner

Racing Flat wrote: »

1) it's over-prescribed/utilised (my opinion here may be more relevant to orthotics)

Agreed, not so sure about gait analysis as I've never had it done but orthotics do seem to be over prescribed. In my opinion and experience they are the soft option/answer for sports injury professionals.

I recently went to a very good physio and I was quite happy with his treatment until he suggested I get fitted for orthotics. He never seen me run and hadn't investigated my stride pattern or the manner in which my foot hit the ground etc. I told him I had been running for 31 years and if I didn't need them before there was a good chance I didn't need them now. He himself had told me my injury was down to repetitive strain.

Racing Flat wrote: »

2) the people doing the analysis may not always have adequate training/expertise

This is my biggest reservation about gait analysis ! If I was getting it done I would want the tester to be extremely competent, well trained and preferably a runner although I'm sure non-runners could also give excellent advice with the correct training.

And no I'm glad I asked. I have similar reservations as yourself but couldn't articulate them as well as you

ss43

kennyb3 wrote: »

To all new runners or anybody who has not had this done, make sure you go and get it done! i was running for 3/4 months with no problems - thought all is great until i developed an achilles problem from wearing runners that had too soft cushioning in them. im slowly recovering but it has really set me back. I went to runways on sat and got fitted with nike air zoom elite 4+. managed my first pain free run yesterday and unusually woke up with no pain in my achilles.

the value of having the right runners cannot be underestimated. please go get it done you ll be glad you did. just because you ve no problems now doesnt mean one wont develop. prevention over cure!!

Brian

I disagree. Getting a gait analysis leads to being prescribed the wrong runners. The extra cushioning and built up heel in the typical running shoe (whether it be for neutral, over or under pronators) inhibit the movement of the foot and let weaknesses develop. It's especially bad for people who train in big shoes and then race in spikes.

A built up heel keeps your calf in a shortened state. The calf will then lose flexibility and your foot will lose its ability to utilise a stretch shorten cycle to generate power. The athlete who then goes to race in spikes or racing flats puts a lot of pressure on the calf and achilles tendon through eccentric contractions that he/she is not prepared for. The risk of injury is increased as a result. Instead of saying spikes increase injury risk, I'd consider inadequate preparation increases injury risk much more in this case.

Apparently, more cushioning gives the body a flase sense of security so the foot pounds down a lot harder (enough to negate the shock absorption of the cushioning) than if it were barefoot.

That's my unprofessional but someway informed opinion.

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

I recently went to a very good physio and I was quite happy with his treatment until he suggested I get fitted for orthotics. He never seen me run and hadn't investigated my stride pattern or the manner in which my foot hit the ground etc. I told him I had been running for 31 years and if I didn't need them before there was a good chance I didn't need them now. He himself had told me my injury was down to repetitive strain.

Surely a good physio would have asked to see you run before making such a wild suggestion.

TheRoadRunner

ss43 wrote: »

Surely a good physio would have asked to see you run before making such a wild suggestion.

That's what I thought. Apart from that he is an excellent physio though and I would have no problem recommending him.

McConkey

Bought Asics 1140s in Jan without any knowledge of the ins and outs of running. When I ended up with plantar faciitis a few weeks later I blamed the runners. Physio initially recommended getting orthotics fitted but later said we'd adopt a wait and see approach which I was happy with.

After all the reading I did at the time I decided it was imperative I get gait analysis done and went to a place in Edinburgh a few months ago. They recommended a pair of Nike zoom triax which I bought and found crap tbh. My knees were in bits all three times I wore them....even though the runs would only have been 4-6 miles. I was hardly able to walk and getting around for work etc required max dose of nurofen each day.

Went back to my old runners after a couple of weeks without running and had no problems since. Was recommended Asics nimbus after a second round of analysis in Elverys but haven't managed to try any in my size as they don't have them in stock. So since I've not really had any problems with the first pair of Asics I bought I think I'll probably just go and but those runners again....

So as mentioned before.....even when you get advice it's also good to listen to your own body and be aware of how you are yourself

thirstywork

What did we ever do before gait analysis came along in Ireland?
answer:went to arnotts and bought asics at half price at christmas.

Since gait analysis(correct me if im worng)was introduced down south by amphibian king.Alot more brands have started to be introduced to the market ie BROOKS,MIZUNO,SAUCONY,NIKE(better quality nike),PEARL IZUMI and a few others.

Runways in Parnell Street then came along and was the forst in Dublin.
Soon after Elverys introduced Gait analysis in Suffolx street,Blanch and Dundrum.
I think gait analysis is a fantastic idea if used by someone who understands the body and why something is happening.
Alot of issues come about from weak or inbalanced muscles.

I disagree with ss43 when he says ecentric contractions come about when running in racing spikes,the muscle elongates while under tension due to an opposing force being greater than the force generated by the muscle.This usually happens when i run downhill but not on the track.

For an under pronator i agree they need a soft and flexible shoe in order to help promote or help the foot back into a neutral position.

over view-gait analysis is a good tool when done by someone experienced.

TheRoadRunner

thirstywork wrote: »

Since gait analysis(correct me if im worng)was introduced down south by amphibian king.Alot more brands have started to be introduced to the market ie BROOKS,MIZUNO,SAUCONY,NIKE(better quality nike),PEARL IZUMI and a few others.

You may be wrong. All those brands, bar Pearl Izumi (and I think they may be a newish brand) were in Ireland before gait analysis was ever introduced. I use to wear brooks in my teens and went through a mizuno phase in my early twenties !

I don't think you can equate the introduction of gait analysis to an increase in market share for particular brands. I'd say the percentage of runners on this board who have undergone gait analysis is quite low an the percentage in the general population is probably much lower, so I don't think there is any correlation between the two.

thirstywork wrote: »

over view-gait analysis is a good tool when done by someone experienced.

I'd probably agree with you here although as I've said I've never undergone gait analysis myself.

thirstywork

ok my first pair of runners where mizuno but they would have been entry level ie the crap you buy in jjb,champion ect.
Ok im talking the last 5-10 years,where in ireland could you buy a good range of Saucony,Mizuno and brooks?
Im talking more than 2 models.
I know for a fact Mizuno's share in the irish market has increased alot.
Gait analysis wasn't introduced to do this but i think stores providing this service realised Asics was number 1 by a long way and in order to offer something differn't then other brands had to be brought in.
Look at the Uk market or the US.

TheRoadRunner

thirstywork wrote: »

I know for a fact Mizuno's share in the irish market has increased alot.
Gait analysis wasn't introduced to do this but i think stores providing this service realised Asics was number 1 by a long way and in order to offer something differn't then other brands had to be brought in.
Look at the Uk market or the US.

Sound. I'm sure you're right as you have more contact with brand representatives and runners buying shoes etc.

I must admit. I'm one of those guys who heads into Arnotts to buy half price Kayanos I have been wearing them for 8 years now though, so I follow the "if it's not broke, don't fix it" rule

shels4ever

I found the analysis told me what i already knew but was handy way of getting to run for a while in a couple of pairs of runners to try them out.

thirstywork

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

Sound. I'm sure you're right as you have more contact with brand representatives and runners buying shoes etc.

I must admit. I'm one of those guys who heads into Arnotts to buy half price Kayanos I have been wearing them for 8 years now though, so I follow the "if it's not broke, don't fix it" rule

i agree with you ''if it's not broke then don't fix it''
ps arnotts won't be having half price sales from now on as Asics ireland is no longer-now Asics UK having been sold out...

runningman1980

kennyb3 wrote: »

i actually regret replying to you having read your idiotic comments on other threads. this is a friendly community and until you start acting like a sane and rational human being i dont think anybody will take you seriously, welcome you or give you advice

PS sorry for going off subject here

If I had known you were a bitch, i would have never asked you in the first place.

PS sorry for going off subject, but I wont accept a lecture from the likes of yourself

scottreynolds

Seems to me here that people are getting a gait analysis done for the wrong reason by the wrong people. I went to Irishfit and got a one on one appointment with a physio who specialized in gait analysis. The outcome of this analysis was a discussion on my running style, foot shape, a list of recommendations for shoes and finally a list of 8 stretches to help my hips and IT band.

Running shops, by their nature, are always going to sell you shoe and a free gait analysis is just a sales toy. Its like financial advice you'll pay for independent advice but get free advice from someone trying to sell you their products.