MTB Trail Building

BryanL

Just wondering if any one has built Trails on Coilte land or similar. What permissions they had to get etc.
It seems to me that it should be easy enough to open up more forestry to mountain biking. All that has to be done is join up existing fireroads by opening up single track by knocking back low level branches and dead wood.
The Ballyhoura trail in Cork is great but it gets a bit boring week in week out, beside Tracton which is very short not much else seems to be on offer in Munster.
Bryan

thebouldwhacker

Trails such as ballyhoura are designed by experenced pro's.
Yes they are the same trails each time but sometimes its not where but how you ride.
Any time someone says trails are simple I compare them to golf courses, a start point, some long & short grass, maybe a bit of sand and water and a cup size hole multiplied by 18... what could be simplier?????

I'd love to build a trail too though:D


There are plenty of off road trails around munster, check a few mtb sites loads of DH which if your careful and selective you'll enjoy without killing yourself, gives you a look into how crazy those guys are at full speed, check here and others, plenty of fourms out there... happy hunting

rob1891

Best bet would be to chat with MBCC as they will probably have had contact with the land manager of the various forests that they cycle in, or have on going projects. Depending on the individual manager you my get a warm of frosty reception.

http://mbcc.ie/
& http://mbcc.ie/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2450

Where I build (not Cork), we have a good relationship with the land manager, but that does not go as far as official recognition of the trails or official permission to build. We sometimes get asked not to build and sometimes we get asked to remove things. Ultimately we have dialogue and end up with very nice trails to ride.

Undertaking the construction of a trail is a lot of work, it may seem simple enough to cut through trees, but then you encounter boggy soil, drainage, wind fall, horses/mx bikes and damage from mtbs as well. Try and find an ongoing effort and pitch in. Anyone who rides a volunteer built trail should at some stage pitch in to construction or maintence, unfortunately it doesn't often happen like this. Fair play for being interested in giving back!

doctor evil

Wouldn't be bad if there are obstacles that horses can go over as well.

thebouldwhacker

Rob1891, what part of the country do you build them? any chance of a link or list to your trails, (I'd have no bother pitching in when repairs are needed)

kona

em dont, there is enough **** going on with MTB and coillte, another poorly built trail isnt needed.
There are a few people giving up their spare time,who are getting places with coillte RE:Official trails

So please dont just go building anywhere.

kona

kona wrote: »

em dont, there is enough **** going on with MTB and coillte, another poorly built trail isnt needed.
There are a few people giving up their spare time,who are getting places with coillte RE:Official trails

So please dont just go building anywhere.

I'd have to disagree with this completely,I'll take "poorly built trails" over the official pathways coillte have built any day.Ballyhouras/Ballinastoe could never give me the same thrill as riding the trails in Killaloe,Djouce,3 Rock,Cratloe,Torc etc. Go and ride these trails some time and tell me they were not worth building,according to you mountain bikers should stop building trails like these, just so we can wait for more of these pedestrian pathways? Mountain biking is supposed to be a challenge, if we stop building trails and just ride those pathways,mountain biking would be a joke in this country.

So BryanL go on,read up on trail building and build to your hearts content.The more unofficial trails out there the better.

WicklowRacer

kona wrote: »

em dont, there is enough **** going on with MTB and coillte, another poorly built trail isnt needed.
There are a few people giving up their spare time,who are getting places with coillte RE:Official trails

So please dont just go building anywhere.

*sigh*. Complete nonsense (again).

There are many many kms of singletrack around Wicklow which have been built by highly experienced MTB riders. Some of it is natural and has been enhanced so that it all joins together, some of it is more manufactured. MAD MTB have just put together a superb loop around 3 Rock and there are equally fine loops around Djouce, Glen of the Downs/Kindlestown. EPIC MTB have built a superb race loop in the Leadmines. These are in no sense official Coillte trails (and do disappear occasionally due to felling etc).

The best trails are not the manufactured ones of Houra and B'stoe IMHO - the lack all the best characteristics of the more natural ones.

rob1891

thebouldwhacker wrote: »

Rob1891, what part of the country do you build them? any chance of a link or list to your trails, (I'd have no bother pitching in when repairs are needed)

Sorry, I don't have any links or list. There might be gps tracks scattered about the place but in my experience these are more or less useless when trying to discover trails (spend more time looking at the screen than anything else). You are better off heading out on a spin with people who know the trails or attending an event hosted by a club on trails they built. MAX-XC showcased a lot of the work my club (MAD) has done on 3 Rock, Djouce Trail Challenge was a similar event that did the same for the fine work done in Djouce.

Not sure if there are future challenge style events this year, but there are the NPS races (one on 3 Rock in a weeks time almost) and the Blast and the National Champs. Only reason I race is to see different trails around the country!

As for helping out, again, my opinion is that it is best done through a club. They are more likely to have contact with people working with Coillte and with other groups that are building or using the forest. They would know what is sensitive, what not to be doing and what needs doing.

Rob

BryanL

Just to say i think ballyhoura is a fantastic development, well run ,clean and great for everyone.

But............it's easy, yeah 2 laps on the 50km hurts the legs, but there are no drops, nothing too technical. Which of course is great to get more people involved.

Thanks for the mbcc link i'll get on that and see what's about. Dr Evil, we'd clear the trail to about 6 foot high, but your on your own after that!
Bryan

kona

Deleted User wrote: »

I'd have to disagree with this completely,I'll take "poorly built trails" over the official pathways coillte have built any day.Ballyhouras/Ballinastoe could never give me the same thrill as riding the trails in Killaloe,Djouce,3 Rock,Cratloe,Torc etc. Go and ride these trails some time and tell me they were not worth building,according to you mountain bikers should stop building trails like these, just so we can wait for more of these pedestrian pathways? Mountain biking is supposed to be a challenge, if we stop building trails and just ride those pathways,mountain biking would be a joke in this country.

So BryanL go on,read up on trail building and build to your hearts content.The more unofficial trails out there the better.

There are people looking to get existing trails made official, just dont go ****ing up the hard work some people put into the sport and putting them back to square one.

If you insist:
Dont build the jumps out of rubbish and sharp metal scraps.

Keep far away from walkers(some get very anal)

DONT under any circumstance cut down trees.

Ciaran500

doctor evil wrote: »

Wouldn't be bad if there are obstacles that horses can go over as well.

I assume you're saying they should be designed so horses can go on them aswell?

Horses absolutely destroy trails, cover it in horse shit that ends up sprayed all over us and can be a dangerous for everyone if mtb riders encounter a horse at speed and it gets spooked.

joemc99

yeah, go ahead! We started in 1991 and Robin is still at it. Great to see the ghetto trails out there. While the 'official' trails are good, they are not the real thing.

Get the right tools, trim the branches, rake it off, dig out the lumps, rock the base and hardocre the berms, and you are away. Spending 3 hours on 1 corner was very satisfying.

kona

WicklowRacer wrote: »

*sigh*. Complete nonsense (again).

There are many many kms of singletrack around Wicklow which have been built by highly experienced MTB riders. Some of it is natural and has been enhanced so that it all joins together, some of it is more manufactured. MAD MTB have just put together a superb loop around 3 Rock and there are equally fine loops around Djouce, Glen of the Downs/Kindlestown. EPIC MTB have built a superb race loop in the Leadmines. These are in no sense official Coillte trails (and do disappear occasionally due to felling etc).

The best trails are not the manufactured ones of Houra and B'stoe IMHO - the lack all the best characteristics of the more natural ones.

*sigh* complete and utter rubbish......:rolleyes:

whats wrong with the trails that are there instead of telling inexperienced people to go and wreck the place?

Nothing wrong with existing loops, but AFAIK the consensus amongst clubs is that to make progress and get recognition the The sport needs, the building of random ****ty trils, usually in the most inconsiderate places needs to be stopped.

OP you be better off joing a club and lending a hand.

joemc99

kona wrote: »

*sigh* complete and utter rubbish......:rolleyes:

whats wrong with the trails that are there instead of telling inexperienced people to go and wreck the place?

Nothing wrong with existing loops, but AFAIK the consensus amongst clubs is that to make progress and get recognition the The sport needs, the building of random ****ty trils, usually in the most inconsiderate places needs to be stopped.

OP you be better off joing a club and lending a hand.

Eh, the existing loops are all ghetto trails, thats the point......at one stage all the trails we had were fireroads and peat....all the ST you ride on now is ghetto. Get out and build, even if it is crap. The OP will get the hang of it. Obey the ghetto rules and he'll be fine.

kona

joemc99 wrote: »

Eh, the existing loops are all ghetto trails, thats the point......at one stage all the trails we had were fireroads and peat....all the ST you ride on now is ghetto. Get out and build, even if it is crap. The OP will get the hang of it. Obey the ghetto rules and he'll be fine.

Do you think Im making this up just for the craic? I did build trails a few years ago, but got pissed off with people riding them and ****ing them up and not fixing them.
Im just passing on what has been said to me on numerous times by people in certain clubs that are mentioned here. I cant stop you Im just saying that its not a good Idea to keep building "ghetto trails" all over the shop,
As a novice do you think the OP will know of all the different users of the mountains that will be affectd and usually extremely pissed off with a random amature trail popping up on their favorite walking trail?

Its the same as walkers just walking all over your hard work building a trail.

Im just giving him advice, advice that I got from a source that id listen to.

BryanL

Just to say i've seen a few trails, all over the south of england, Wales and California.
It's a bit easier for guys aroiund Wicklow to say stick with what you have, when you have loads of trails there. It's not the same story all over the country.
The www.mbcc link is great though and i will meet up with those guys and see what the story is.
thanks,B

doctor evil

Ciaran500 wrote: »

I assume you're saying they should be designed so horses can go on them aswell?

Horses absolutely destroy trails, cover it in horse shit that ends up sprayed all over us and can be a dangerous for everyone if mtb riders encounter a horse at speed and it gets spooked.

Horse poo is the most harmless poo in the world, all it is is recycled grass. If you can't handle that I'm surprised you go into the mountains with all the deer (and bears) about.

Whats the problem with multi-use trails? Obviously not going over everything of course but whether a forestry user is a walker/cyclist/rider no one likes sticking to the mundane.

TinyExplosions

doctor evil wrote: »

Whats the problem with multi-use trails? Obviously not going over everything of course but whether a forestry user is a walker/cyclist/rider no one likes sticking to the mundane.

Because all non-cyclists are evil!

kona

doctor evil wrote: »

Whats the problem with multi-use trails? Obviously not going over everything of course but whether a forestry user is a walker/cyclist/rider no one likes sticking to the mundane.

Walkers are a bunch of ---- territorial

---

who think the own the mountain. They feel the need to put rocks and logs at the end of trails so of MTBer will hit them at 30 or 40KMPH and do a endo and destroy themselves

----.

Thats why you cant have mixed trails because you cant have bikes flying by people at highspeed coming from behind.


You also cant have walkers intentionally causing harm to cyclists, eg..retarded example above.

Thats why the more "ghetto" trails that are built ignorantly onto walkers trails, the more pissed off walkers get and the more complaints coillte hgets about MTB. Then coillte dont like MTB and we stop getting allowed run NPS on coillte property.

A brief reason why.

Gavin

kona wrote: »

Thats why the more "ghetto" trails that are built ignorantly onto walkers trails, the more pissed off walkers get and the more complaints coillte hgets about MTB. Then coillte dont like MTB and we stop getting allowed run NPS on coillte property.

A brief reason why.

Interesting. What's your experience of running an NPS?

kona

Gavin wrote: »

Interesting. What's your experience of running an NPS?

None, but my point of view is influenced by people who would be heavily involved.

Go onto epic and post about building a random Ghetto trail in cloon gwan;)

whats yours?

doctor evil

kona wrote: »

Walkers are a bunch of ignorant territorial pricks who think the own the mountain. They feel the need to put rocks and logs at the end of trails so of MTBer will hit them at 30 or 40KMPH and do a endo and destroy themselves

Bunch of arseholes.

Thats why you cant have mixed trails because you cant have bikes flying by people at highspeed coming from behind.


You also cant have walkers intentionally causing harm to cyclists, eg..retarded example above.

Thats why the more "ghetto" trails that are built ignorantly onto walkers trails, the more pissed off walkers get and the more complaints coillte hgets about MTB. Then coillte dont like MTB and we stop getting allowed run NPS on coillte property.

A brief reason why.

No offence but do you not check the track before going at high speed? I mean when I'm riding and I'm doing some jumping (similar in way to MB and obstacles) I check both sides and the approach before and after.

It's like driving, you got to keep an eye and ear out for the other eejits:)

TinyExplosions

kona wrote: »

None, but my point of view is influenced by people who would be heavily involved.

Go onto epic and post about building a random Ghetto trail in cloon gwan;)

whats yours?

I don't think he implied that he had any, whereas when you say "we stop getting allowed run NPS on coillte property" it seems like you've had some experience

kona

doctor evil wrote: »

No offence but do you not check the track before going at high speed? I mean when I'm riding and I'm doing some jumping (similar in way to MB and obstacles) I check both sides and the approach before and after.

It's like driving, you got to keep an eye and ear out for the other eejits:)

Do you go out on trails. You could be riding a 5min track all day, plenty of time for a gob****e walker to decide to leave a present 3 mins down the track, usually at a jump or at the start of a berm.

kona

TinyExplosions wrote: »

I don't think he implied that he had any, whereas when you say "we stop getting allowed run NPS on coillte property" it seems like you've had some experience

I did say it was a brief description of the chain of events, twas quite loose too.

We or I the fact remains thats what happens.

kona

Robbing from another thread:

http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1797566

Now imagine getting halfway down, flying at full tilt coming up do a 2nd double and bang, you hit a log put there by a walker:eek:

Yes it does happen.

rob1891

Walkers are a bunch of ignorant territorial pricks

Bunch of arseholes.

kona, I think these kinds of statements do a disservice to the mountain biking community. I know of the kind of behaviour you're on about, and I am sure you know as well as I do who is doing it, at least on 3 Rock. It is a mad local, not a walker by any estimation. Why bother making him out to be? Why make broad and generalising statments that would only divide people with a common interest in using the mountains and state forests for leisure?

I rarely come across anyone on trail who I have a negative interaction with. Walkers, horse riders, motocross riders and mtbers included (yes even MXers are friendly when you actually chat to them!). We can get along. We have to, if mtbers want any official recognition or legitimisation.

kona

rob1891 wrote: »

kona, I think these kinds of statements do a disservice to the mountain biking community. I know of the kind of behaviour you're on about, and I am sure you know as well as I do who is doing it, at least on 3 Rock. It is a mad local, not a walker by any estimation. Why bother making him out to be? Why make broad and generalising statments that would only divide people with a common interest in using the mountains and state forests for leisure?

I rarely come across anyone on trail who I have a negative interaction with. Walkers, horse riders, motocross riders and mtbers included (yes even MXers are friendly when you actually chat to them!). We can get along. We have to, if mtbers want any official recognition or legitimisation.

Totally I will always say hello to everybody on the trail, Ill always slow for walkers etc.
In fairness, when i was younger and didnt know the ins and outs I didnt alknowledge anybody on the trail, just flew past. Untill it was explained to me why its important by a much more experienced and better rider. Now I do it all the time. I think its somthing that should be put out there.

Ive seen walkers place obsticles on jumps etc, although in fairness I havnt seen it in wicklow, but I presume its the same everywhere. maybe Im wrong. But It does happen elsewhere.

RE: The comments, I think thoses descriptions are apt for people who decide to try and inflict serious injury. Although it is tar and brush.

blorg

Reminds me of this scandal from last year - the deliberate creating of obstacles to injure cyclists really does happen, but suggesting all walkers are **** and involved is hardly constructive. What about that cyclist who shot someone last year?

kona

blorg wrote: »

Reminds me of this scandal from last year - the deliberate creating of obstacles to injure cyclists really does happen, but suggesting all walkers are **** and involved is hardly constructive. What about that cyclist who shot someone last year?

Ah that was okay, the one in east wall was a filthy drug pusher AFAIK. did us a favour IMO.

But Point taken calling them **** isnt going to help the situation.

Some walkers are **** and most cyclists are sound;)

thebouldwhacker

:eek:
deleted

blorg

thebouldwhacker wrote: »

:eek:
That was printed in the Times?!?

Unbelievable stuff, but true. What is even worse is that the very thing Parris "jokingly" suggested (wire across lanes/paths at neck height) is actually done and has caused serious injuries.

Someone took Parris's piece and replaced "cyclist" with "homosexual" (Parris is gay) - didn't read too good then.

Traumadoc

Interestingly I had a patient last year who this happened to. He was on a quad bike though.

blorg

Traumadoc wrote: »

Interestingly I had a patient last year who this happened to. He was on a quad bike though.

Were the injuries serious?

Traumadoc

yea, nearly died, severe laryngeal oedema, airway obstruction needing emergency needle cricothyroidotomy and subsequent tracheostomy.

TinyExplosions

Traumadoc wrote: »

yea, nearly died, severe laryngeal oedema, airway obstruction needing emergency needle cricothyroidotomy and subsequent tracheostomy.

I was with you up until "... nearly died," -then it got a bit too technical!

Glad he was ok in the end though, it's a nasty thing alright

Gavin

Traumadoc wrote: »

yea, nearly died, severe laryngeal oedema, airway obstruction needing emergency needle cricothyroidotomy and subsequent tracheostomy.

You stuck a tube into his throat?

Traumadoc

Technically, yes.

kona

Traumadoc wrote: »

Tecnically, yes.

****ing ****.:mad:

Did he make a full recovery?

doctor evil

The fishing line across tracks gets aimed at horese too, mainly in the UK I think. It's pretty sick thing to do, you never know if its low to injure the horse or high to get the rider.

thebouldwhacker

OK.... I've read enough, theres enough s*** that freaks me when out on a spin, I dont need this running through my head when belting down the trax tomorrow. So I'm gonna delete my ref above incase anyone in Ireland takes up that twats suggestion. The last thing I want is some fool telling his buddies before going out boozing in the woods 'well I was on boards and I saw this joke you can play on cyclists........':mad: