IT Letter re bus wing mirrors

stopped_clock

Thought this might be of interest (Two wheels, no helmet?). Anyone here ever been clipped by a bus wing mirror?

Also, is "breaking" becoming accepted spelling?

Mods - not trying to start another helmet debate, please delete/lock if that happens...

Jawgap

What's the world coming to when the Irish Times publishes mis-spellings like that?????

Now everyone will think cyclists can't spell because they keep getting clocked on the head by bus wing mirrors!!!!

I've never seen it / never experienced it, but it's a timely reminder to (a) wear a helmet and (b) don't bunny hop when there's a bus nearby:)

As for "shaving" - I'm not too keen on being shaved by a bus, but I especially hate it when they "surf" on your shoulder - the drivers of 27s and 41s seem to particularly enjoy doing that to cyclists.

Limestone1

stopped_clock wrote: »

Also, is "breaking" becoming accepted spelling?

No - it totally undermines his argument ...

ps what is his argument anyway ?- that buses shouldn't have wing mirrors ?

Chips Lovell

I think his point is that the wing mirrors on buses are poorly positioned.

I hit a bus wing mirror once. It taught me not to cycle so close to buses. But if it's the bus coming from behind you, there's not much you can do about it.

Jawgap

Limestone1 wrote: »

No - it totally undermines his argument ...

ps what is his argument anyway ?- that buses shouldn't have wing mirrors ?

It's that anyone over 1.8m (about 5' 10") should not be allowed to cycle or should be forced to use a recumbent?

either that or buses wing mirrors should be made of rubber

or

if you hear a bus coming up behind you (which you won't if you're irresponsibly wearing headphones:)) then don't forget to duck!:)

blorg

I think his point is more that bus drivers overtake dangerously with mirrors that are positioned to they could indeed give someone a whack. If a bus overtakes you in such a way that he could whack you with his wing mirror that is overtaking much too close.

Secondary point is that the problem cited by the original letter writer is bus driver behaviour not failure to wear helmets.

The_Conductor

They also on occasion knock down innocent pedestrians minding their own business walking on the footpath..... (there was a case from Pearse Street in the courts earlier this year- alleging a driver swiped a pedestrian with his mirror, dislocating his shoulder in the process).

DirkVoodoo

I've never yet been hit y a bus wing mirror, never even thought about it. Good to know now. Only incidents I have had with buses have involved idiot driver performing dangerous overtake only to pull up at the bus stop immediately after.

For the most part I have found bus drivers pretty good from personal experience, at least they use their wing mirrors (for looking, not hitting).

Jawgap

Time for a few sweeping generalisations:

I've found most Dublin Bus drivers to be quite good around cyclists (except the aforementioned 27 and 41s)

Bus Eireann, Aircoach and JJ Kavanagh's are a bit more "assertive" in their driving. I assume because they are trying to keep to a timetable that's linked to their bonuses.

Highway_To_Hell

I think this letter is in response to a previous letter that referred to the "JCDecaux bike-rental" scheme and was commenting on the safety around renting a bike and not a helmet and use the example of who would pay for the injuries/damages to a cyclist that rented a bike if they were hit by a mirror of a bus. .

irishmotorist

I think the writer is saying that buses should overtake fully out-of-lane when passing another vehicle (cyclist on his bike) rather than slinking by. Personally, I'll always advocate an assertive position that requires a driver to think, observe and overtake properly instead of just squeezing by.

As an aside, I mailed Dublin Bus a while back thanking them for the general behaviour of drivers towards cyclists and got a nice mail back from them thanking me for taking the time and saying that my comments would be passed onto the depot managers for distribution to the drivers.

rottenhat

Jawgap wrote: »

Bus Eireann, Aircoach and JJ Kavanagh's are a bit more "assertive" in their driving. I assume because they are trying to keep to a timetable that's linked to their bonuses.

JJ Kavanagh's are the worst I've encountered. I've been meaning to write them a sharply-worded letter for a while.

tomasrojo

stopped_clock wrote: »

Thought this might be of interest (Two wheels, no helmet?). Anyone here ever been clipped by a bus wing mirror?

Also, is "breaking" becoming accepted spelling?

Mods - not trying to start another helmet debate, please delete/lock if that happens...

Maybe they need a new letters-page editor. I notice that correspondence went under the title "Two wheels, no helmut?" until they corrected it today. They also printed 'peddled' instead of 'pedalled' in the last installment of this correspondence.

Blowfish

Jawgap wrote: »

Time for a few sweeping generalisations:

I've found most Dublin Bus drivers to be quite good around cyclists (except the aforementioned 27 and 41s)

Bus Eireann, Aircoach and JJ Kavanagh's are a bit more "assertive" in their driving. I assume because they are trying to keep to a timetable that's linked to their bonuses.

Indeed, I've found the same. Dublin Bus drivers are usually at least aware of cyclists being around bus lanes and will quite often wait to let you overtake if they are stopped. Taxi drivers in bus lanes can be lethal though.

unionman

I've sent a reply, but doubt it'll be published. We'll see.;)

Nietzschean

Blowfish wrote: »

Indeed, I've found the same. Dublin Bus drivers are usually at least aware of cyclists being around bus lanes and will quite often wait to let you overtake if they are stopped. Taxi drivers in bus lanes can be lethal though.

+1, taxi drivers seem much more inclined to overtake under any circumstance. Dublin Bus i've never had any trouble with really, nearly been hit with wing mirrors a few times by them when walking on a foot path but not cycling...

stuf

The letter seems to be in response to this crass one:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/letters/2009/0602/1224247881674.html

Madam, – In Colm Fahy’s (May 29th) struggle to figure out who would be liable for his getting a whack on the back of the head from a bus wing-mirror, while riding a public bike, has it not occurred to him that maybe he might be responsible himself?

Every child who learns to ride a bike is (or should be) taught to pay attention to what’s around them and to make every effort to not put themselves in harm’s way.

Why is it always someone else’s fault? . – Yours, etc,

RONAN FOX,

Maywood Crescent,

Raheny,

Dublin 5.

which seems to suggest that it's possible for a cyclist to be responsible for being hit on the back of the head by a bus's wing mirror.

The original letter which started it all is here:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/letters/2009/0529/1224247665152.html

A chara, – I’ve noticed the installation of the pay-as-you-go public bicycle system is underway around the streets of Dublin.

If I were a tourist, peddling on my merry touristic way through the traffic jammed streets of our city and have the misfortune to get a whack on the back of my bare unhelmeted head by the wing mirror of the 46A, who is liable? The driver of the 46A and/ or Dublin City Council which provided me with the bike, indeed encouraged me to take to two wheels without safety gear.

Perhaps the bikes come with helmets. I am sure the council has thought of this, hasn’t it? – Is mise, etc,

COLM FAHY,

Arnott Street,

Dublin 8.

cosmic

Jawgap wrote: »

Time for a few sweeping generalisations:

I've found most Dublin Bus drivers to be quite good around cyclists (except the aforementioned 27 and 41s)

Bus Eireann, Aircoach and JJ Kavanagh's are a bit more "assertive" in their driving. I assume because they are trying to keep to a timetable that's linked to their bonuses.

And another: Aircoach drives are the worst to cyclists. Had about 4 years commuting along the same route with them, then moved home and then job so a lovely long long break where I forgot all about it, but then a year ago got a new job which has me back on their route again. They are lethal to cycle within any distance of!

blorg

I am not quite sure whether Ronan Fox is being serious there. I certainly hope not.

Traditionally if you drive into someone else with your vehicle you are at fault, not the person driven into.

Presuming of course the person driven into had lights

Ryaner

I've come close to being hit a few years back. Avoided in by ducking as moving out of the way wasn't an option. I was on foot waiting for the bus and it came up right against the curb. The path was small enough that the wing mirror was a few inches from the wall on the inside.

I do know someone who has been hit by a mirror too although that one is put down to his own stupidity for stepping out of his car without looking into the path of an oncoming bus.

Jawgap

Blowfish wrote: »

Indeed, I've found the same. Dublin Bus drivers are usually at least aware of cyclists being around bus lanes and will quite often wait to let you overtake if they are stopped. Taxi drivers in bus lanes can be lethal though.

Speaking as someone who has three taxi drivers as close relatives - I object to this statement. Taxi drivers are actually the road equivalent of carrion scavnegers .

They are lethal to other road users, not just cyclists. My own personal favourite is when they swing hard across you when someone scratches their nose and they think they are getting a fare, or pull out to do a quick u-ey having either seen a fare on the other side or they did to head off with a fare in the opposite direction to run up the meter a bit!

Oink

smccarrick wrote: »

They also on occasion knock down innocent pedestrians minding their own business walking on the footpath..... (there was a case from Pearse Street in the courts earlier this year- alleging a driver swiped a pedestrian with his mirror, dislocating his shoulder in the process).

I always tell the missus that if she doesn't hear from me, she should come and collect my remains from the corner of Dame st and Parliament st. And not to forget my to scoop up my head, which is at the same height as the mirrors.
She used to think I was joking, until the day "someone" pushed my arm from behind while we were walking on the pavement. thought I was behind mugged, but I was in fact having a close encounter of the Dublin Bus kind. At the corner of Parliament st and Dame st, like I said.

Mickb

Nietzschean wrote: »

+1, taxi drivers seem much more inclined to overtake under any circumstance. Dublin Bus i've never had any trouble with really, nearly been hit with wing mirrors a few times by them when walking on a foot path but not cycling...

Cycling out to work this morning. N4 road, stopped at the traffic lights at Palmerstown junction (Bus lane up-to traffic lights). Taxi stops right at my back wheel. So I ride off slowly & defensively. (Stopping that close unsure what taxi was going to do.) After the traffic lights the bus lane disappears after 200 or so meters, and become filter lane for traffic going onto the M50. So taxi pulls out by me into the flow of traffic, then back into the bus lane, possibly another 50 - 100 meters until the bus lane ends then back into the flow of traffic, he was staying on the N4.

On the other hand both driving and cycling I've found Dublin Bus drivers to be very good. Nearly any time you hold back and to let them pull out, they will acknowledge, either hand wave or flash of lights.

MiCk B. :-)

Jawgap

I always give the Dublin Bus drivers a cheery wave when I do something stupid and they let me away with it.

Generally as a group of drivers, they drive courteously.

Although this person may have a different view.....