Ethical question.

Hagar

Reading this article about a British woman, Samanata Orabator,who was sentenced to death for drug related offences but it seems will escape the penalty because she is pregnant.

The question popped up in my mind, if she is pregnant but within parameters for a legal abortion, she is not actually carrying a child, just a feotus, should the leniency be discounted and should she be executed as if she were not pregnant?

What say ye?

994

No, this is a Schrodinger's Foetus situation - it's a human being if the mother says it is.

Biggins

Very heavy question for Ah and a tought one.
Not a clear yes/no answer to this one. Fuerther thought on it is needed by this old fool.

biko

Didn't Schrodinger mean that you can't tell if it's dead until you open the box?

HarryPalmer

Why not let her drop the sprog, and then send her to the drop?

ferrigan101

Magnus wrote: »

Didn't Schrodinger mean that you can't tell if it's dead until you open the box?

Think he meant that the cat was both alive and dead until you opened the box.

Back on topic, why don't they wait 'til she has the baby and then impose the death penalty?

Wait, DEATH PENALTY FOR SMUGGLING DRUGS!!!!???? WTF????



God damn you Harry Palmer.;)

Robbo

Magnus wrote: »

Didn't Schrodinger mean that you can't tell if it's dead until you open the box?

Yes but only Heisenberg is allowed to look inside.

TheZohanS

Hagar wrote: »

What say ye?

I agree.

Let her have the baby and then execute her if that is the law of the land.


The bigger question here is how did she get pregnant in prison and what the hell was she thinking getting pregnant when she knew that there was a chance that she would be executed for her crime.

Sharpshooter

That's a tough one, I wonder if she was raped in prison or deliberately got pregnant to avoid a death sentence.
Either way she won't be executed now.
I don't know the ins and outs of how she came to be carrying the drugs so I can't say whether she'd have deserved to die for it.

Captain-America

I didn't think Laois was this backwards.

CianRyan

The death penalty should be done away with world wide imo.

galwayrush

Probably a silly question from me, slightly off topic, but why the **** do people get involved in drugs when they know what happens to drug smugglers in those countries.

HarryPalmer

galwayrush wrote: »

Probably a silly question from me, slightly off topic, but why the **** do people get involved in drugs when they know what happens to drug smugglers in those countries.

Because they're f'ing stupid, which is a great argument for getting rid of them...

CianRyan

galwayrush wrote: »

Probably a silly question from me, slightly off topic, but why the **** do people get involved in drugs when they know what happens to drug smugglers in those countries.

A lot of time people don't even know they are doing it.
They get conned/hustled into taking innocent items such as teddy bears and the likes onto plane, completely unaware that there's drugs inside the bear.

Captain-America

HarryPalmer wrote: »

Because they're f'ing stupid, which is a great argument for getting rid of them...

Or desperate. They must have a had a good reason.

Lab_Mouse

ferrigan101 wrote: »

Wait, DEATH PENALTY FOR SMUGGLING DRUGS!!!!???? WTF????

Anyone close to you strung out on gear?Lose any friends to it?I have and would gladly shoot the scumbag myself(after said scumbag has had her baby)

Ross_Mahon

I think the death sentence is a bit harsh for what she did, Maybe a good few years in the cells to learn her lesson, Let foster parents take the child and sentence her.

Eoin

Sharpshooter wrote: »

That's a tough one, I wonder if she was raped in prison or deliberately got pregnant to avoid a death sentence.
Either way she won't be executed now.

This story says that it is a female only prison, and officials "think she may have managed to artificially inseminate herself". You never know, they might be saying that to cover up a warden raping her or something.

Sharpshooter

eoin wrote: »

This story says that it is a female only prison, and officials "think she may have managed to artificially inseminate herself". You never know, they might be saying that to cover up a warden raping her or something.

A woman only prison, would that include the guards as well?
If so then someone must have smuggled in what she needed to impregnate herself.
I wonder will we hear anymore about it now?

ferrigan101

Lab_Mouse wrote: »

Anyone close to you strung out on gear?Lose any friends to it?I have and would gladly shoot the scumbag myself(after said scumbag has had her baby)

Yes and yes I'm afraid, but still wouldn't make me want any person dead, who lets face it, was probably doing it for a number of reasons we can't even fathom. The desperate need for money can make people crazy, lets not forget that.

Anyway, artificially inseminated herself you say....?
"Where did you get the sperm?"
"Erm, well i found this sock your honour......"

dubsgirl

Lab_Mouse wrote: »

Anyone close to you strung out on gear?Lose any friends to it?I have and would gladly shoot the scumbag myself(after said scumbag has had her baby)

More than likely that a lot of the people who get done for drugs are addicted themselves..

If it was one of your friends that you lost who was done for drugs offences I'm sure you wouldn't be pulling the trigger. Majority of on the street dealers are dealing for their own hit and not being paid cash.

Helix

Hagar wrote: »

Reading this article about a British woman, Samanata Orabator,who was sentenced to death for drug related offences but it seems will escape the penalty because she is pregnant.

why cant they just shoot her when she has the baby?

Eoin

Sharpshooter wrote: »

A woman only prison, would that include the guards as well?
If so then someone must have smuggled in what she needed to impregnate herself.

Good question actually, I wonder how that worked.

Sharpshooter wrote: »

I wonder will we hear anymore about it now?

Doubt it, she has gotten a life sentence today, so the biggest part of the story isn't there now.

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

Lab_Mouse

dubsgirl wrote: »

If it was one of your friends that you lost who was done for drugs offences I'm sure you wouldn't be pulling the trigger. Majority of on the street dealers are dealing for their own hit and not being paid cash.

She was done for smuggling not selling on a street corner to feed her habit.
Also there's no mention that she herself is an addict,and until I read otherwise I will still stand up and pull the trigger.

most junkies I know are petty thieves.
I have very little sympathy for addicts,christ knows they have eyes that can see the zombies that are walking around on it,but its the people,not addicted to the poison,hoping to make a quick buck that i fcuking detest

[/rant]

am i on the right forum?thought this was after hours?

Joey the lips

I think it would depend on her religion. If she does not believe in abortion and she is aborted would that not be religious persecution afik???

Helix

Joey the lips wrote: »

I think it would depend on her religion. If she does not believe in abortion and she is aborted would that not be religious persecution afik???

sure in that case she can just say she doesnt believe in serving jail time for trafficking drugs

she'll surely be set free

TheZohanS

Joey the lips wrote: »

I think it would depend on her religion. If she does not believe in abortion and she is aborted would that not be religious persecution afik???

She didn't give a fùck about her religion when she agreed to transport drugs that could have ruined the lives of others.

Religion is not "a la cart".

Earthhorse

If I agreed with the death penalty, and I don't, I'd say that she should be allowed carry the child to term and then carry out her sentence, whatever it may be.

CianRyan wrote: »

A lot of time people don't even know they are doing it.
They get conned/hustled into taking innocent items such as teddy bears and the likes onto plane, completely unaware that there's drugs inside the bear.

Think that's a bit of a myth to be honest.

ejmaztec

If most of the posters on this thread were at the birth, the baby would come out with its hands up.

netwhizkid

Let have the child, then execute her. Seems fair to me, drug dealers should be hung in this country too. It would soon reduce drug rates alot!

Nervous Wreck

Hagar wrote: »

Reading this article about a British woman, Samanata Orabator,who was sentenced to death for drug related offences but it seems will escape the penalty because she is pregnant.

The question popped up in my mind, if she is pregnant but within parameters for a legal abortion, she is not actually carrying a child, just a feotus, should the leniency be discounted and should she be executed as if she were not pregnant?

What say ye?

Should the 'ethical question' not be about sentencing someone to death in the first place? Especially for a silly drug offense....?

Eoin

netwhizkid wrote: »

Let have the child, then execute her.!

She got a life sentence today, she's not being executed.

AckwelFoley

Let her have the child then fry her, and give the baby to madonna.

win win

tony1kenobi

She will be transferred to an English prison in the next 10 months along with her child....she will be released and go on the talkshow circuit. Then she'll get a job as a social worker with Haringay council. Then she will be implicated in the death of Baby Q,R,S or T......

....shoot the horrible bastard and her ugly unborn now.......I might change my mind, but it's unlikely.

HarryPalmer

ejmaztec wrote: »

If most of the posters on this thread were at the birth, the baby would come out with its hands up.

As it should. Damned kids today... no respect for their elders.

Joey the lips

Hagar wrote: »

Reading this article about a British woman, Samanata Orabator,who was sentenced to death for drug related offences but it seems will escape the penalty because she is pregnant.

The question popped up in my mind, if she is pregnant but within parameters for a legal abortion, she is not actually carrying a child, just a feotus, should the leniency be discounted and should she be executed as if she were not pregnant?

What say ye?[/quote]

Please look at the question!

Joey the lips wrote: »

I think it would depend on her religion. If she does not believe in abortion and she is aborted would that not be religious persecution afik???

No look at my possible answer above

TheZohan wrote: »

She didn't give a fùck about her religion when she agreed to transport drugs that could have ruined the lives of others.

Religion is not "a la cart".

I am just giving an example of something she can use I am not suggesting she use it! I was asked what i thought! Rather than bareating me why dont you give an imput!

Helix wrote: »

sure in that case she can just say she doesnt believe in serving jail time for trafficking drugs

she'll surely be set free

Dont be so stupid! religions percution is an internationaly reconised reason for many things, yours is not!

Capt'n Midnight

it's a long tradition

many of the old pirates used the same trick , get knocked up so you don't get strung up

admit it, if faced with the noose you'd consider it too

MIN2511

No criminal deserves the death penalty.

Sharpshooter

MIN2511 wrote: »

No criminal deserves the death penalty.

I'd have no qualms about seeing a murdering sex offender put to death tbh, do you not think that is the right thing to do with them?
Given the probability that they would re offend if they got the chance.
Bear in mind that life seldom means life when they are sentenced.

Capt'n Midnight

Won't someone think of the children :mad:

LD 50

CianRyan wrote: »

A lot of time people don't even know they are doing it.
They get conned/hustled into taking innocent items such as teddy bears and the likes onto plane, completely unaware that there's drugs inside the bear.

Maybe they stuffed the baby full of drugs, then stuffed it back inside her. She smuggles the drugs, and if she gets caught, doesnt go see her maker.

Bet they'll start seeing more pregnant women trying to smuggle drugs now.

Dragan

galwayrush wrote: »

Probably a silly question from me, slightly off topic, but why the **** do people get involved in drugs when they know what happens to drug smugglers in those countries.

Because some people are sheep and some people are sharks. Sharks don't look backwards, because they don't have necks. Necks are for sheep.

Lab_Mouse

Lab_Mouse wrote: »

Anyone close to you strung out on gear?Lose any friends to it?I have and would gladly shoot the scumbag myself(after said scumbag has had her baby)

By that logic - They knew what they were getting involved in with heroin, just as much as she did by smuggling it. Should all people strung out be shot too?


Also, she was raped in prison. I read near the beginning of this thread someone saying she got pregnant on purpose? What the ****.. Seriously.

netwhizkid

snyper wrote: »

Let her have the child then fry her, and give the baby to madonna.

win win

Why punish the child aswell?

dsmythy

When does a foetus become a baby anyway?

MIN2511

Sharpshooter wrote: »

I'd have no qualms about seeing a murdering sex offender put to death tbh, do you not think that is the right thing to do with them?
Given the probability that they would re offend if they got the chance.
Bear in mind that life seldom means life when they are sentenced.

That's a tough one to call tbh

Butterfly baby

The foetus will become a child, to kill her will be to excute the child too. No matter what she did the child didn't have any part in it so should not be subject to her punishment. Eventually this will turn into a thread about abortion but I think you already knew that and found a round about way to argue a point but the fact is the child did nothing wrong so should not die. Most parents will agree that a "foetus" is just another name for "You're going to be a parent". It has life, just because you chose to see it as a bunch of distructable cells doesn't make it any less alive. It exists, it grows, it evolves, it becomes... where's the ethical question in killing him/her? if anything your question is unethical. Would you be so free to end a life if the child was yours? I very much doubt you would but imparciality always gives people the joy of distance from events doesn't it?

Capt'n Midnight

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

By that logic - They knew what they were getting involved in with heroin, just as much as she did by smuggling it. Should all people strung out be shot too?


Also, she was raped in prison. I read near the beginning of this thread someone saying she got pregnant on purpose? What the ****.. Seriously.

Seriously,

http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/index.php/britain/call_to_bring_home_pregnant_prisoner

The father of Ms Orabator's child remains a mystery. Initial speculation that she may have been subject to sexual assault in jail appears groundless as her mother said earlier this week that her daughter had not been raped and the father-to-be was not a Lao prison official.

World wide problem
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4261934.stm

Foreign women make up 18% of the female prison population and about 60% of them are held on drugs offences.

http://www.andrew-drummond.com/tag/anna-morris/

This story is not going to have the same wheels as the one 16 or so years ago when two British girls Karyn Smith, 17, and Patricia Cahill, 19, were arrested at Don Muang airport with a staggering 27 kilos of heroin.

(They got sent home on a Royal Pardon after 3 years. Abhisit Vejjajiva, then Government spokesman for Chuan Leekpai, broke the news to me by phone when the decision was made).

johnny_knoxvile

994 wrote: »

No, this is a Schrodinger's Foetus situation - it's a human being if the mother says it is.

so its not Schindler's foetus?
And it's not Terry's chocolate orange? I'm confused.