Town vets and country vets....

sorella

Last evening saw a need to get the help of a vet. Something we do as little as possible for many reasons. We are in a very rural area, and finding a vet who is knowledgeable about cats or even dogs is very hard.. One example. A few years ago, cat went missing for three days. When he finally reappeared, it was clear he had been stuck somewhere, ? rabbit hole? and had only got free when the weight dropped off him. In that time, something had attacked him and bitten his jaw. He was in pain and could not eat or drink. It was Saturday afteroon and the only vet with out of hour's service was some 40 + miles away. when we got there, he was with a dog and his attitude to it was imprsessive; he was watching it walk in the corridor. However, it was clear he did not like cats. I tried to explain what had happened; he hauled cat out of cage by the scruff. Gentle cat. Did not listen and told me it was clear cat had leukaemia, as he was "haggard and thin" and thought the jaw wound was swollen glands. Said he would not live; would certainly not eat...to bring him back for blood tests, sigh.. The good part was the antibiotics and painkillers as a few hours later, cat was full of food and water and very happy again. So I was not impressed. Did not go back either...

Last evening, rescued collie freaked out. She does this with thunderstorms, as many collies do, but this time there was no trigger. Terror, panting, severe fear. I called our own expert; then a vet. Then two vets. Neither was interested and neither would come. I am disabled and alone here and cannot get dog into our small car. Their attitude was disinterested and patronising. Had there been blood flowing maybe! But I doubt it. And the clinics are between 30 and 40 miles away. I finally, with advice, gave dog antihistamines and have just had to repeat that. Our expert - 50 yrs experience - has spoken with her own vet and the concern is that this may be some neurological problem; which the vets here will not help with. The attitude was much as some GPs attitude to "nerves" . I fairly told that vet off and hung up on him. This is a dog who suffered extreme abuse for many years; it may be the beginning of the end for her and that breaks my heart. I called our friend of the pet rescue place and he is as appalled as we are at the vets. He will try to get help for us tomorrow.

It should not be who you know like this. Using "influence".

NB rescue man - English and retired - he was talking to me on the phone with his own dog on his feet; she had been locked in a cage for three years when he got her two years ago; God reward him.

Meanwhile I am searching online as I have done many times for our dogs and cats. It may be a severe form of separation anxiety that has surfaced because she is safe now; the only thing that calms her at all is me with her and that is not practicable 24/7 of course. I mean with her as in hands on:) Paws on too...This is new, which is why we wonder re something bad going on in her head.
But this is rural Ireland sadly; where dogs get abused so much and where there is little help to be had.
So we will TELL any vet now what we need for dog. Because medication will help her.
And if I ever see the family who did this to this beautiful dog... She has not an aggressive bone in her body to me, even when in terror. A fine dog; locked every night of her life in a dark shed with no windows, and worse. Then to a 56 lb weight. Never even wormed.

Now dog is asleep, I can sleep too.

Thankfully she has settled again now.

Thank you for caring as you do for cats and dogs.... Maybe some day Ireland will stop these things happening. Meanwhile all any of us can do is rescue and try to put dogs back together. Whether we can save this one remains to be seen. We have had her two years now. The thought of losing her is not a happy one.

teckster

For the anxiety & fear rescue remedy might help. You put a few drops in a glass of water and give a few drops or a spoonful of the mix to the dog. Repeat as often as neccessary. One can also put some on the dog's paw and the dog will lick it off. It is amazing how well it works

I have given up on vets and use only homeopathy, it is a difficult subject and requires years of learning.

All the best

sorella

Thanks for this; we have been giving her chamomile tea. I will try that also; we were getting some ??cherry bark?? One of the ingredients of rescue remedy.Cherry plum; that was it.

This morning, madam dog is bright-eyed and full of life; she has slept after all. No one else has.
Bouncing around as if she had not a care in the world.

I have a suspicion that she will be wilful now as she was not able to be a puppy.

A joy to see her racing about; but when I tried to close the outside door, she was off again getting agitated.

All her old fears surfacing once more?

Today we will wear her out.

and now I know the piriton works at need it is easier maybe.

Blessings and thanks; and thank you also re vets; fine re spaying etc but not otherwise. I feel much the same re drs also

teckster wrote: »

For the anxiety & fear rescue remedy might help. You put a few drops in a glass of water and give a few drops or a spoonful of the mix to the dog. Repeat as often as neccessary. One can also put some on the dog's paw and the dog will lick it off. It is amazing how well it works

I have given up on vets and use only homeopathy, it is a difficult subject and requires years of learning.

All the best

teckster

Doctors and vets, iatrogenic diseases ... no thanks.

You might find some interesting reading in this book http://books.google.com/books?id=rIi80nFqN7UC&printsec=frontcover&hl=de&rview=1#PPP1,M1 and google onwards from there.

PinkTulips

you have my sympathy... we have similar probs with the vets here.. and on top of that all the local vets are in the pay of connaught gold and the co-op and will see to a cow with a sore hoof over a dying cat, dog or horse :mad:

my friend has lost 2 foals (thoroughbred) as the vets simply refused to come, my cat has ended up with yet more kittens needing homes as they refused to neuter her while she was nursing (and i've just had to argue with another vet and basically insist he do her as he was arguing against it as well), someone i know has been told by her vet to keep letting her epileptic dog have pups as her epilepsy is better when preg .... the list goes on and on.

when my parents moved to the country the local vet told them he didn't vaccinate cats fgs!

i hope you find an answer for your dog... yesterday was very muggy and high pressure, is it possible the thunderstorm behaviour is more to do with unpleasat feelings of atmosphereic pressure than the noise of the storm and she was responding to those same feelings of pressure yesterday? (don't laugh, my mother and i get blinding headaches in high pressure weather!)

Red_Marauder

sorella wrote: »

he hauled cat out of cage by the scruff. Gentle cat. Did not listen and told me it was clear cat had leukaemia, as he was "haggard and thin" and thought the jaw wound was swollen glands. Said he would not live; would certainly not eat...to bring him back for blood tests, sigh.. The good part was the antibiotics and painkillers as a few hours later, cat was full of food and water and very happy again. So I was not impressed. Did not go back either...

Wait, so he did actually prescribe the antibiotics to cure the cat?

If someone presented me with a cat who had wandered off alone and appeared as you had described, I would be thinking along the lines of leukaemia as well. This is a problem faced by many vets - cats cannot communicate - and we do not have prior knowledge of their personalities!

For what it's worth, we were taught in university to remove a cat from his cage by the scruff, and shown how to do this correctly and how it can be done badly. We were also taught that some owners perceive this as cruelty and to explain the situation to the owner first. I feel not doing that was your vets only mistake there.

I fear I am going to be slated for saying this but owners often present with animals and expect an immediate consultation, diagnosis and cure - and it is often just not realistic.

Vets go through rigorous training - and five years of 8am lectures, late nght library, Summer 'seing practice' and clincial grillings, orals, exams, blood sweat and practicals do not make us psychics.
Veterinary Medicine is very different to human medicine, don't expect a consultation to run as smoothly as your GP visits where you can descrive at length your symptoms, site of pain, its origins, and so on. Your cat cannot do that and you cannot fully do it on his behalf - your vet has to take that into account.
Often we have to be happy just to be able to treat symptoms if that is all we can do without resorting to tarot cards.

Our expert - 50 yrs experience - has spoken with her own vet and the concern is that this may be some neurological problem; which the vets here will not help with.

Maybe you should consider sending the dog to a specialist? To get back to the issue of education and taining, vets are not experts in every aspect of medicine throughout the domestic species. That expectation would be highly unrealistic. If you had a severe neurological problem you would probably have to attend a clinic in either Cork or Dublin. Maybe you ought to consider going beyond your local vet for your dogs health.

I would be very concerned at people saying things lke they don't bother with vets, and instead rely on homeopathy now. If you really care for your animal and want to preserve and improve his or her health, then turnng your back on science and medicine is doing that animal a great dis-service.

My name is URL

Red_Marauder wrote: »

turnng your back on science and medicine is doing that animal a great dis-service.

What about the Vets that refuse to call out and treat animals? As per the OP's issue last night..

No dis-service there?

teckster

Red_Marauder wrote: »

I would be very concerned at people saying things lke they don't bother with vets, and instead rely on homeopathy now. .

Of course you would be concerned, as you are (or are going to be) a vet. Your livelyhood depends on forever sick cats and dogs, you don't cure! Veterinary medicine covers symptoms, keeps them in check for a couple of weeks or maybe even months, usually while weekening the immune system at the same time until the owners come back (for more cortison and the like).

Red_Marauder wrote: »

If you really care for your animal and want to preserve and improve his or her health, then turnng your back on science and medicine is doing that animal a great dis-service

Two years ago my dog was allergic to all grasses, several types of mites, pollen of various native trees - now he isn't. That is not dis-service, that is cure.

Madame Razz

People,

I really think the problem lies in the Vets you are attending.

You really can't tar all vets with the one brush.

I have taken my animals(dogs and cats) to both a town vet and a country vet and the service in both has been fantastic. They have always treated my animals and my family's animals well and cured their ailments, and had the utmost respect for the animal in question and for me, even when I have been there with a aggressive dog who posed a considerable threat to them.

In fact the country vet was heartbreakingly sweet to my Granny when she had to have her corgi(who had cancer) put to sleep. The whole situation was truly touching and we appreciated it greatly at the time.

I am sorry to hear of your bad experiences, but in truth I don't think it's fair to generalise on this. You are doing a great disservice to the good vets(both town and country) out there, and I am sure plenty on here will agree.

MR.

Red_Marauder

My name is URL wrote: »

What about the Vets that refuse to call out and treat animals? As per the OP's issue last night..
No dis-service there?

The vet made an individual choice on his own behalf not to make a house call. I don't see how any of us can say that was correct or not without being fully aware of the dogs condition.
I'm sure we all know dogs who experience severe terror and fear during thunderstorms, it's extremely rare to have any medical intervention.
If you got such a call, to drive up to forty miles for this, at which point the thunder would probably have ended, I wonder if you would react any differently.

I know that in my last job, which was largely equine based, there was a general reluctency about cases where there were only one or two horses in the owners care.
The reason for this is that such owners sometimes (and perfectly understandably) over-state problems, or have a worse perception of a situation than may be necessary. I was called to an "emergency" on one such farm last summer, where an old broodmare with a foal at foot had given herself a rather unremarkable scratch on the head. The owner nearly had the poor colt fostered out and the mare buried!
Don't get me wrong, it's great to have cases that straightforward, but when cases are presented as emergencies when, rather, they are very routine it gets frustrating because it means other clients are getting delayed or you could be endangering an animal who actually deserved a higher priority than the "emergency".

Of course you would be concerned, as you are (or are going to be) a vet. Your livelyhood depends on forever sick cats and dogs, you don't cure!

Vets wouldn't last very long in their careers if they didn't alleviate pain and help cure animals, or at least preserve their quality of life.
I freely put my hand up and say that I have mesed up on cases - bigtime, sometimes - and have always ackowledged that. However I don't want to get into a debate about homeopathy because from experience, they tend to just go around and around like a huge carousel, except less fun.

I do think that abandoning valid veterinary care for an animal when drug therapy or surgery are required, in favour of non-established or unproven methods, is tantamount to cruelty.

I just want to make a distinction between homeopathy and other forms of so called 'natural medicine'. Natural medicine is a very broad term has many valuable and proven aspects to it. I myself make lavendar tea having been hooked on it thanks to a colleague, for times of increased stress. But things like this are based on biochemical properties within these herbs (just like the drugs we put into vaccines and tabs) that cause these effects and that is quite well established.

Homeopathy, on the other hand is a very different story, is completely unproven as an idea. Whatever (albeit negligible) success that might be ascribed to it is undoubtedly down to the Infinite Monkey Theorom - which says "If you put an infinite number of monkeys at typewriters, eventually one will bash out the script for Hamlet." That sums homeopathy up quite well imo.

My name is URL

Red_Marauder wrote: »

The vet made an individual choice on his own behalf not to make a house call. I don't see how any of us can say that was correct or not without being fully aware of the dogs condition.
I'm sure we all know dogs who experience severe terror and fear during thunderstorms, it's extremely rare to have any medical intervention.
If you got such a call, to drive up to forty miles for this, at which point the thunder would probably have ended, I wonder if you would react any differently.

Of course, I didn't mean to imply that all vets are the same Though in my own view, if an owner is distressed enough to call a vet about an issue with an animal, that's reason enough to attend.

I'm not a Vet though and I'm sure that if I was I'd probably have a different opinion.

doctor evil

Rural vets are generally practice with large animals and so will not have the same amount of contact as they would with a mixed practice. Things are beginning to change. If you live in the bog end of nowhere it is a cross that has to be borne.

doctor evil

teckster wrote: »

For the anxiety & fear rescue remedy might help.

There is alcohol in Rescue Remedy.

bushy...

sorella wrote: »

Last evening, rescued collie freaked out. She does this with thunderstorms, as many collies do, but this time there was no trigger. Terror, panting, severe fear.

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>

I finally, with advice, gave dog antihistamines and have just had to repeat that.

Anaphylatic (spell?) type of thing maybe ?

( lots of flying biting insects around ? , plug-in airfreshner ? )

Maybe she heard something you didn't/couldn't and mistook it for thunder ?

( had a dog who didn't like office staplers because they sound like opening a shotgun )

Something like an large empty trailer towed behind a tractor.?
Blasting in a quarry or somewhere similar nearby ?

Whispered

Red_Marauder wrote: »

. However I don't want to get into a debate about homeopathy because from experience, they tend to just go around and around like a huge carousel, except less fun.

I do think that abandoning valid veterinary care for an animal when drug therapy or surgery are required, in favour of non-established or unproven methods, is tantamount to cruelty.....I just want to make a distinction between homeopathy and other forms of so called 'natural medicine'. Natural medicine is a very broad term has many valuable and proven aspects to it........Homeopathy, on the other hand is a very different story, is completely unproven as an idea. Whatever (albeit negligible) success that might be ascribed to it is undoubtedly down to the Infinite Monkey Theorom - which says "If you put an infinite number of monkeys at typewriters, eventually one will bash out the script for Hamlet." That sums homeopathy up quite well imo.

I'm not involved in homeopathy at all, however I am involved in another complementary therapy. The first thing I learned was "If a doctor is needed you MUST insist your client sees one and continues treatment as prescribed". I don't agree with the above monkey therom, Animals in particular seem to respond well to my own branch of complementary therapy, leading me to believe that there is a lot more in than that. I do however 100% agree that to deny your pet proper medical care when needed is very silly and at times cruel. Yes homeopathy and other complimentary therapies can undoubtedly (IMO) help in most cases, you also have to get relevant professional help.

pukeymcpukerson

well said red marauder..:) its the truth, i worked for a time with vets and its amazing how many ppl consider scruffing cruel when in all effects it has a calming effect and allows control of the cat... in all fairness a owner can come in and say oh he/ she is a lovely cat.... to them, but not when they are in a strange place, getting uncomfortable procedures done....they only realise that the cat aint so happy when YOU have you hand scratched to bits... so safety first is always a given!
he maybe should have done further tests but he didnt treat the cat with any malice at all.. country vets deal primarily with large animals and they do sometimes forget how to handle the small ones and they may not be as good at diagnosing sa problems. but would you give out to a human cardiologist when they dont pick up a hearing or sight problem?? no... so if your not happy with that vet simply complain,and go somewhere else, that way you can get the treatment you want for your cat and he can get back to his large animal...

cloudy day

Would it be anything to do with the full moon, and the hot weather. My guy's starting howling early in the morning's for no reason. Totally out of caracture.

There are now some Homeopathic ( spelling?) vets about.

It does sound like this dog has deep seated issues. Maybe now she has freedom she is afraid of being boxed in and panics.

shu

Sounds like the vet in question did absolutely nothing wrong. For out of hours calls, the vet judges for him/herself through asking questions and whatnot if an immediate visit is necessary or if it is safe to be put off till the next clinic. TBH if the vet had agreed to go on a house visit to see this dog, there is very little that he could have done bar giving a sedative and if he had done so you would probably be complaining about the call out fee and the fact that he did nothing. So to be honest you should be thanking the vet for not wasting your money.

looserock

Madame Razz wrote: »

People,

I really think the problem lies in the Vets you are attending.

You really can't tar all vets with the one brush.

I have taken my animals(dogs and cats) to both a town vet and a country vet and the service in both has been fantastic. They have always treated my animals and my family's animals well and cured their ailments, and had the utmost respect for the animal in question and for me, even when I have been there with a aggressive dog who posed a considerable threat to them.

In fact the country vet was heartbreakingly sweet to my Granny when she had to have her corgi(who had cancer) put to sleep. The whole situation was truly touching and we appreciated it greatly at the time.

I am sorry to hear of your bad experiences, but in truth I don't think it's fair to generalise on this. You are doing a great disservice to the good vets(both town and country) out there, and I am sure plenty on here will agree.

MR.

+1 on that.

reality

pukeymcpukerson wrote: »

so safety first is always a given!

+1 (//attempts to count scars on my arms inflicted by other peoples darling sweethearts, lol)

i work in a rural vets, and i feel we give the best care we can to every animal we are presented with whatever the species; if an unusual case arises, we research, we consult ans we act in the animals best interests - if a case occurs that we don't feel competent to treat, we refer to a specialist.

i agree with shu, a house call forty miles away to sedate a dog would've landed you with with a bill in excess of 80 euro - and no cure. sorella, you seem to forget that even if the panic attack had been caused by something more sinister than nerves, a vet cannot bring the entire practice in his jeep, he could not perform blood tests or take x-rays in the comfort of your home! if i had been you, and my dog (having a history of nervous episodes) freaked out, i would not have assumed there was no trigger, i would have placed her in a warm, dimly lit room with which she is totally familiar and provided her with some of her favourite things to act as a distraction - if this failed to calm her, i would have taken her for a long, long walk away from the house to tire her out and calm her down. perhaps you should seek an animal behaviour specialist rather than a batchelor of veterinary medicine - though from the tone of your post, i think you wouldn't be satisfied with anything less than a bona fide miracle worker... anyone have an email address for st francis of assisi? :P

i understand that it is incredibly difficult to witness your beloved dog in distress, but when we adopt rescue dogs, it's rarely a case of "a dog: exactly what it says on the tin". unfortunately some of us spend years trying to undo the psychological damage inflicted (in as little as minutes) upon dogs by less caring or downright cruel individuals.

anyhows, regardless of how helpless she feels, or how frustrated she was with her vet, i am both saddened and angered by sorelli's uninformed portrayel of the rural attidtude towards animals. things are not perfect here, but saying "this is rural Ireland sadly; where dogs get abused so much and where there is little help to be had" is ridiculous - it just degrades and discounts the hard and too often unheeded work that is being done by me, my colleagues and every other dedicated animal worker in all rural irish communities.