Clamped on Private Property by DCC Parking Services, How to Get Land Registry Map?

blobert

Hello Folks,

Not sure if this is the correct forum but I thought I'd try here.

There is an apartment complex and offices building opposite where I live.

There is a very wide path in front of this development.

As far as I am aware the area in front of the complex is private property (it is tarmac covered), there are signs up to this effect while the path is grey stone and DCC owned.

Part of this (the space in front of the apartments) has spaces marked out and is patrolled by a private parking company. This would seem to confirm my belief.

The larger area, in front of the offices, is not marked, though it has signs up denoting private property.

I, along with many other residents of the street, have been parking in this area.

This morning DCC clamped all the cars. Now as far as I am aware DCC do not have jurisdiction to clamp cars parked on private land, only a privately appointed firm by the land owner could do so?

What I want to know is how I can prove the land is privately owned? Ideally I'd like to find a map of the street that shows the boundaries of the various properties. I believe the Land Registry service have a LandDirect.ie service which seems to probably be what I am looking for but it costs €125 to access and seems to be available to solicitors only.

Is there a way I can access such information for free, I'd imagine in pre-internet days there was probably an office one could go to to look at maps?

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance

Our man in Havana

It will probably mean a trip to Waterford to get the maps. Or else ask a solicitor that you know.

It would be no harm to check the bye laws that apply in that area also to see exactly what DCC have control over.

blobert

Thanks for the reply.

DCC have clamped the cars saying that they are parked on the footpath but I don't believe this is the case.

I don't think anybody has the land owners permission to be parked there, but as I believe it is private land I don't think DCC are allowed to clamp me on it? As is my knowledge of this, if it is private land the owner is allowed to employ a private clamping firm and put signs up to this effect.

There are signs up saying "Private Property, No Parking" that look like they have been there for many years, but no mention of a private clamping firm in the part where everybody parks. I'd imagine whoever clamped all the vehicles just assumed that as they seem to be on the path it is legitimate for them (DCC) to do so.

I had a look here

http://www.dublincity.ie/LocationPublisher/Layout1.aspx

Hard to tell what the boundaries of the buildings are but it seems as though the areas marked as roads probably include the footpath.

There seems to be a strip of land in front of the buildings themselves that is included in the development so I'm guessing it is private property. Certainly the bit of path that is marked out by the private parking company and designated as private property seems to be classified the same as the area other people have been parking which is what I thought would be the case.

I wonder will a print out of this, coupled with some photos to illustrate it be enough to appeal the decision.

My concern is not as much with overturning this clamping incident but rather with preventing them from clamping myself and other residents of the street again in the immediate future.

Any further advice would be much appreciated.

Thanks

Our man in Havana

They have no business clamping on private land. You will need a land registry map to prove your case as the council will simply claim it was parked on a footpath.

I would be looking for a solictor to do you a search and get a copy of the maps.

Could you take some pictures so we can see the situation?

blobert

Thanks for the reply.

Would I have to go to Waterford for the Land Registry maps? There is an office in Dublin, do they not store the maps there.

Will take some pics when I get home to help prove my case, I don't think posting them here is wise though.

Have sent DCC parking services an email to try and explain the situation, will pay the fee now and move the car elsewhere while I appeal it.

Any further advice would be appreciated.

Our man in Havana

Try the Dublin office and see if they have those maps. If they don't they will advise where they are.
Actuallly keep the pics to yourself for now. I would use them together with the maps as your appeal. Until you get a decision I would not park there.

Typhoon.

Dublin maps can ordered from the dublin office.... the land reg have digital maps now for some counties so you can call in and view them there

it'l cost you 25e to order the map

blobert

Thanks for the replies guys. I emailed the land registry office there, will call in at lunch to view the maps if available.

Spoke to the clampers when they were unclamping me, they agreed it looked very much as though the place everyone was parked looked like private property, they said they had been told to start clamping on the street in question. They were not sure of the reason, thought that maybe someone on the street had complained about it. They suggested I appeal it.

Any further advice would be much appreciated. Thanks

Our man in Havana

Ah the "I was only following orders" aka the Nuremberg defence. They should know the difference in private property and public footpath. If they are not sure they should seek clarification.
Did you take a pic of the car in situ.

blobert

Rather foolishly I forgot to take a pic of my car before getting it removed, but there are other cars in front of and behind in the same area that were clamped also which will demonstrate the area.

DCC emailed me to say "We checked this area out and found that it was ceded to Dublin Corporation (as it was then) some time ago. "

I’m not entirely sure what they mean by this? Is it that the owner of the land gave them permission to patrol and clamp on it?

I took a trip at lunch to the Land Registry Office, there are several stips of land adjacent to the path, owned by several different companies.

The property that I was parked on was bought in 2007, I think it unlikely that the new owner they give permission for them to patrol their property since then?

I've asked DCC to tell me which pieces of private property they believe they have the right to clamp people upon and which you don’t for they are all private property and thus, I would have thought, not under DCC Parking’s jurisdiction.

I'll let you know what they say. The people in the Land Registry office were very helpful incidentally. They printed me up a map for free (the official ones cost €25). It's hard to make out boundaries but I'm confident that the land I was parked on is private, I even know the name of the chap who owns it now:)

Thanks for the continued help

Our man in Havana

The next step would be to find out if the owner did give DCC permission to clamp.

DCC emailed me to say "We checked this area out and found that it was ceded to Dublin Corporation (as it was then) some time ago. "

That would mean that DCC now own it. Your map says otherwise. They either own it or they don't.
Check with the landowner first and see what they say.

Carawaystick

Bond-007 wrote: »

The next step would be to find out if the owner did give DCC permission to clamp.

I presume DCC would have to tell you truthfully if they have permission, the landowner can always lie to you.
If DCC say they have permission, ask them how much they charge to provide the clamping service for the private individual.

Our man in Havana

I doubt that the landowner can even give such permission in the first place.

johnfás

It isn't unheard of, I know a lad who owns a georgian house in Dublin and has title to about 5 feet in front of his building (which looks like the footpath, but is actually his property) and has had this issue on several occasions with Dublin City Council.

blobert

johnfás wrote: »

It isn't unheard of, I know a lad who owns a georgian house in Dublin and has title to about 5 feet in front of his building (which looks like the footpath, but is actually his property) and has had this issue on several occasions with Dublin City Council.

Do you mean issue with DCC clamping on his land?

I still have not got a reply to my last email asking them to clarify what they mean.

blobert

I received another reply from DCC, they say:

"The area in question was taken in charge by Dublin Corporation by Managers Order dated 9th November 1995. Therefore we can enforce on the area in question."

They don't seem to like giving detailed replies.

Can anyone interpret this for me?

Our man in Havana

They say they have an order to enforce.

The next step is to FOI DCC for a copy of that order.

blobert

I've replied and asked for this, the chap in question really has not been very helpful thus far, it shouldn't be that difficult for him to tell me where he thinks they can clamp and where they can't

There are a few houses on the street that look like they might have been built in 1995, so it could well be that the land outside them was ceded at this date (I believe it is done often at the planning stage).

But the unused office block where the majority of the cars are parked outside dates from the early 80's so it's unlikely that such an agreement would have come into place in 1995.

Perhaps they have rights to the land outside the houses, but have mistakenly thought this extends to the adjacent site?

I've written back to ask for clarification as to what areas exactly they believe they have rights to.

Thanks again

johnfás

blobert wrote: »

Do you mean issue with DCC clamping on his land?

I still have not got a reply to my last email asking them to clarify what they mean.

Yes, he parks outside his building (which to a layman would look like it is on the pavement, but actually it is behind the pavement and private property, though there is no clear distinguishing line) and DCC come along and clamp him. Everytime it has happened he has had the clamp removed and the fine revoked but it is an awful hassle and he now actually keeps a photocopy of the boundary in his office so he can show them if it happens again!

blobert

I got a call from DCC and spoke to the person I had been emailing, he was very helpful. He's going to send my out a copy of the order from 1995, seemingly DCC have the rights to a stretch of 70 metres of the road.

Some residents (presumably the ones with private parking) had complained about the cars on the street, this was the only reason they looked into it, and then found the order.

The guy said the same situation occurred in a few other parts of the city also, he said I could certainly appeal my clamping.

So in theory there is still a patch of the street that is private property and can be parked on but I'd imagine competition would be fierce for the few spaces.

I'll let you know if the order from 1995 reveals anything, and thanks again for all your help with this.