Disrespect for nature and wildlife

Irish Guitarist

I take a walk to the Barrow here in Carlow pretty much every day. I've noticed that as the weather has been getting hotter there's been more and more teenagers and children around the river harassing the swans. The other day I saw about five young girls run into the park and terrify the swans. The swans had been standing in the park and the girls frightened them so much they ran back into the river. The girls then started throwing something (I couldn't make out what as I was at the other side of the river) at the swans. What really sickened me about this is that the father was watching the girls do this. He had his arms folded and was casually leaning against some railings watching his girls do this.

Yesterday I saw something even worse. Two girls who appeared to be in their late teens were trying to get the swans to come over to them. The girls asked me for bread but I ignored them as I knew they were up to no good. These girls then walked a little further up and started kicking empty cans into the river at the swans.

These are just two of the latest incidents. This is pretty much a daily occurrence in Carlow. If you stand at the river for any period of time you're sure to see someone harass the swans. It baffles me that anyone can act like this. Why do Irish kids have so little compassion towards nature and wildlife?

cowzerp

the girls where probably throwing bread to the swans, and if they where small children they would not realise that they where scaring the birds and where prob just excited to be going to see them, the other girls probably kicked the cans at the swans to annoy you as you seem to have judged them badly for no reason, they probably just wanted to feed and see the swans..

Irish Guitarist

cowzerp wrote: »

the girls where probably throwing bread to the swans, and if they where small children they would not realise that they where scaring the birds and where prob just excited to be going to see them, the other girls probably kicked the cans at the swans to annoy you as you seem to have judged them badly for no reason, they probably just wanted to feed and see the swans..

The young girls I saw thought it was hilarious that they had frightened the swans. Whatever they threw it wasn't to the swans but at them, and quite forcefully.
The older girls had been shouting at the swans and trying to grab them. That's why I knew they were up to no good.

sorella

They need teaching, is all, and you are in a wonderful position to do that.

Clearly their father is not going to teach them.

Gently show them how to feed the swans; don't be aggressive or angry.

Take some bread and start feeding the swans.....

What a difference you can make here!! Wonderful opportunity

And yes, we have done this very successfully.

Irish Guitarist wrote: »

The young girls I saw thought it was hilarious that they had frightened the swans. Whatever they threw it wasn't to the swans but at them, and quite forcefully.
The older girls had been shouting at the swans and trying to grab them. That's why I knew they were up to no good.

Jim Martin

Why do Irish kids have so little compassion towards nature and wildlife? - Blame the parents, they're the ones directly responsible for their kid's actions. More education of parents needed, I feel the schools are trying to do their bit for the kids, the IWT can do their bit for the parents, but only so much!

sorella

Because the parents were not taught.

And they have passed that on.

And more now live in urban areas.

I was feeding a female blackbird near our market stall one weekend and the kids were fascinated.

So were the adults although they clearly thought I was a bit odd..:)

Jim Martin wrote: »

Why do Irish kids have so little compassion towards nature and wildlife? - Blame the parents, they're the ones directly responsible for their kid's actions. More education of parents needed, I feel the schools are trying to do their bit for the kids, the IWT can do their bit for the parents, but only so much!

doctor evil

Bread is not good for ducks/swans as it swells in their stomachs.

If you want to give them something give them lettuce or slugs.

sorella

????

Have you proof of that please?

doctor evil wrote: »

Bread is not good for ducks/swans as it swells in their stomachs.

If you want to give them something give them lettuce or slugs.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

I don't agree that Irish children have any more disrespect for Nature than was ever the case. In fact, I think they are much more aware and interested than most were when I was young. We all have a responsibility to enlighten them and rather that brand then all immediately we should use our knowledge and respect to teach them. A visit to the sea shore, park, pond etc is a great opportunity to explain about nature to children who may otherwise not be aware of what is around them or what affect their actions may have. I find have a pair of binoculars with me usually invites questions from children of all ages and can lead to a nice nature watching session.

Risarow

sorella wrote: »

????

Have you proof of that please?

Extracts from avianweb site

In general, it is not a good idea to feed wild birds as it will increase their dependence on us for survival - and the food humans frequently feed them (such as bread and chips) is utterly unsuitable for them and can cause multiple health problems for them down the line.
When feeding water fowl, it is best to stay as close to their natural diet as possible ....

Their natural diet consists of ...

• Swans: In summer, the diet of swans consists mainly of aquatic vegetation, eaten while swimming, such as underwater plants and algae (Note: as algae eaters, they can be valuable in shallow bay areas, in rivers and ponds)
  • Grasses found along the banks.
  • They are also insectivores and will eat small insects
  • At other times of year, they also eat cultivated grains in open fields

What NOT to feed:

• Anything that is NOT healthy for us: sugary, starchy, fatty foods, junk food, fast food
• Bread, chips, cakes, cookies, and cereal, etc - as these foods can cause digestive and serious other health problems
• Cooked and processed foods
• Foods not safe for birds - Click here for info

Hope this helps

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Risarow wrote: »

Extracts from avianweb site

In general, it is not a good idea to feed wild birds as it will increase their dependence on us for survival - and the food humans frequently feed them (such as bread and chips) is utterly unsuitable for them and can cause multiple health problems for them down the line.
When feeding water fowl, it is best to stay as close to their natural diet as possible ....

Aah Risarow! Give us a break! Firstly I wouldn't put any store by that American Pet website. It's advice is not only rarely relevant to Ireland but often (while well meant) inaccurate. While I'm all for not poisoning our waterfowl and believe in educating kids about wildlife, I draw the line at forbidding the feeding of bread to Ducks and Swans. This is often the first connection between children and wildlife. Likewise putting bread out in the garden for birds. This often leads to more interest in birds and for some a lifetime of helping birds and wildlife. Let the children have their bit of fun!!

As for the "it is not a good idea to feed wild birds as it will increase their dependence on us for survival"; you are contradicting every Bird Group and Wildlife Conservation Group not only in this country but worldwide. Don't feed the garden birds? We now not only recommend feeding in Winter but all year round. You need to get with the programme, mate!

sorella

RSPB said something some years ago re bread going mouldy in wild birds crops; but if I remember right, they withdrew it later.

I think they found the bread had been mouldy to start with.

It is after all basically flour and water. Cake can be even better; we used to make a special "bird cake" also.

There are few things more soothing than feeding the birds and ducks.
Their zeal is amazing. I used to live near Lough Key and so many would take their dogs there and also feed the ducks. And swans. For many it was their real link with wild life as you so rightly say.

Pablo Poor Helmet wrote: »

Aah Risarow! Give us a break! Firstly I wouldn't put any store by that American Pet website. It's advice is not only rarely relevant to Ireland but often (while well meant) inaccurate. While I'm all for not poisoning our waterfowl and believe in educating kids about wildlife, I draw the line at forbidding the feeding of bread to Ducks and Swans. This is often the first connection between children and wildlife. Likewise putting bread out in the garden for birds. This often leads to more interest in birds and for some a lifetime of helping birds and wildlife. Let the children have their bit of fun!!

As for the "it is not a good idea to feed wild birds as it will increase their dependence on us for survival"; you are contradicting every Bird Group and Wildlife Conservation Group not only in this country but worldwide. Don't feed the garden birds? We now not only recommend feeding in Winter but all year round. You need to get with the programme, mate!

Risarow

Pablo Poor Helmet wrote: »

Aah Risarow! Give us a break! Firstly I wouldn't put any store by that American Pet website. It's advice is not only rarely relevant to Ireland but often (while well meant) inaccurate. While I'm all for not poisoning our waterfowl and believe in educating kids about wildlife, I draw the line at forbidding the feeding of bread to Ducks and Swans. This is often the first connection between children and wildlife. Likewise putting bread out in the garden for birds. This often leads to more interest in birds and for some a lifetime of helping birds and wildlife. Let the children have their bit of fun!!

As for the "it is not a good idea to feed wild birds as it will increase their dependence on us for survival"; you are contradicting every Bird Group and Wildlife Conservation Group not only in this country but worldwide. Don't feed the garden birds? We now not only recommend feeding in Winter but all year round. You need to get with the programme, mate!

Pablo Poor Helmet, I apologise, I didn't realise that educating children incorrectly was acceptable.
Ah sure let the kids give the ducks bread even if it's bad for the ducks, sure won't the kids have a great time

I also didn't know that the Americans were "inaccurate" when they mentioned that wild fowl should eat a well balanced diet. Perhaps on this side of the Atlantic a well balanced diet consists of refined foods ?

The extract regarding "it's not a good idea to feed wild birds" was cut from a complete article and the "wild birds" referred to were swans and ducks, again my apologies if you misunderstood.

With regard to contradicting every "bird group and wildlife conservation group" I would love to see where any of them recommend giving garden birds refined foods completley at odds with their natural diet. Maybe, just maybe they would suggest something like.........seeds ? (readily available from thousands of outlets)

I'm trying to "get with the programme" but it's difficult when people like you keep offering ridiculous advice and comments.

Finally, well done Pablo Poor Helmet on some excellent trolling :D

Birdnuts

Sounds like yet another example of crap parenting. If we can't get our kids to do things better then previous generations then the outlook for this planet is truelly bleak:(

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Risarow (or is it Raise a row?), You quoted that it was "not a good idea to feed wild birds as it will increase their dependence on us for survival". No mention of processed foods or the inpact on their diet; rather that it created a dependence. This is the point :rolleyes:.
Generally feeding birds is recommended all year round. Rather than being a Troll I spend my life working with Wildlife both in their protection and conservation. I am also involved in educating adults and children about our environment. Besides the fact that a kid feeding bread to duck is not doing any long term harm, you missed the point that it's often that child's first contact with wild birds.
You are being pedantic in your interpretation of my comments on that particular web site. Of course all creatures should eat a balance diet! But a bit of bread does no harm.
I think you should ask yourself who is being ridiculous.

sorella

Actually, by my understanding of the word Troll, raise a row???

Pablo Poor Helmet wrote: »

Risarow (or is it Raise a row?), You quoted that it was "not a good idea to feed wild birds as it will increase their dependence on us for survival". No mention of processed foods or the inpact on their diet; rather that it created a dependence. This is the point :rolleyes:.
Generally feeding birds is recommended all year round. Rather than being a Troll I spend my life working with Wildlife both in their protection and conservation. I am also involved in educating adults and children about our environment. Besides the fact that a kid feeding bread to duck is not doing any long term harm, you missed the point that it's often that child's first contact with wild birds.
You are being pedantic in your interpretation of my comments on that particular web site. Of course all creatures should eat a balance diet! But a bit of bread does no harm.
I think you should ask yourself who is being ridiculous.

Risarow

Pablo Poor Helmet wrote: »

Risarow (or is it Raise a row?),

Firstly, I wouldn't read too much into my username

Sorella asked for proof that feeding bread to swans/ducks was bad for them. I obliged. The fact that the information came from an American website is irrelevant, a google search will show the same information from all over the world.

Generally feeding birds is recommended all year round. Rather than being a Troll I spend my life working with Wildlife both in their protection and conservation. I am also involved in educating adults and children about our environment.

Maybe instead of endorsing the poisoning of birds with unsuitable feed you should educate people about the correct diet for wild birds.

Besides the fact that a kid feeding bread to duck is not doing any long term harm, you missed the point that it's often that child's first contact with wild birds.

One child feeding bread may not be too bad but what if there is 10 children or 100 children ? How much bread is too much?

I think you should ask yourself who is being ridiculous.

If saying that refined foods are bad for wild birds and suggesting feeding them a more suitable diet makes me "ridiculous". Well then yes, yes I am ridiculous....

BryanL

Risarow,

this being an Irish site most people look to the British for their examples on how to behave.

funnily enough though the RSPB agree with you!

http://www.rspb.org.uk/news/details.asp?id=tcm:9-214591

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

[QUOTE=RSPB,
'Bread isn't the best option for the birds, as it doesn't provide them with the vital ingredients needed to keep them healthy. The food we will be supplying during the amnesty is much more nutritious.'
[/QUOTE]

And I agree bread isn't the best diet but a child feeding ducks or swans at the local pond is not going to kill (or poisin as Risarow says) any birds.

Also Risarow is still ignoring the point about his quoted wed site discouraging any feeding of wild birds, as it can leave them dependant on us for their survival. Many are already dependant on us, as we have left their natural habitat in such a state as to need our subvention. That said Risarow cannot surely deny that all European and many American wildlife and bird preservation societies advocate not only feed wild birds but doing so all year round.

magicbastarder

if bread did kill ducks, i'd imagine stephen's green would be awash with duck carcasses.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

magicbastarder wrote: »

if bread did kill ducks, i'd imagine stephen's green would be awash with duck carcasses.

:D:D

Jim Martin

I always thought that feeding dry bread was a danger as it can swell up in their digestive system (I think white is worse than brown) - it should first be soaked in water!

Risarow

Pablo Poor Helmet wrote: »

Also Risarow is still ignoring the point about his quoted wed site discouraging any feeding of wild birds, as it can leave them dependant on us for their survival. Many are already dependant on us, as we have left their natural habitat in such a state as to need our subvention. That said Risarow cannot surely deny that all European and many American wildlife and bird preservation societies advocate not only feed wild birds but doing so all year round.

As I mentioned in a previous post the quote was from a more complete article and as I understand it the birds in question were migratory. It wasn't advocating not feeding all wild birds. I realise that because the quote was out of context the meaning may have been misunderstood.
Personally, I'm all for feeding wild birds with the right thing at the right time.

Hopefully, this will put your last argument to bed..;)

Risarow

magicbastarder wrote: »

if bread did kill ducks, i'd imagine stephen's green would be awash with duck carcasses.

Bread is not good for them but I think they are in more danger of ending up in the pot. (lots of ducks disappearing over the past few years)

doctor evil

No one is saying don't feed the birds at all, just not refined foods which TBH for humans is not very healthy for us so why would it be healthy for birds?

There is more than just flour and water in processed breads.

doctor evil

magicbastarder wrote: »

if bread did kill ducks, i'd imagine stephen's green would be awash with duck carcasses.

What about the pigeons and magpies?

doctor evil

Pablo Poor Helmet wrote: »

I don't agree that Irish children have any more disrespect for Nature than was ever the case. In fact, I think they are much more aware and interested than most were when I was young. We all have a responsibility to enlighten them and rather that brand then all immediately we should use our knowledge and respect to teach them. A visit to the sea shore, park, pond etc is a great opportunity to explain about nature to children who may otherwise not be aware of what is around them or what affect their actions may have. I find have a pair of binoculars with me usually invites questions from children of all ages and can lead to a nice nature watching session.

People in Ireland are not as disconnected from the land as they are in other countries. We are a small country of four million.

r3nu4l

Anyone wondering what is okay to feed birds should read this.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

doctor evil wrote: »

People in Ireland are not as disconnected from the land as they are in other countries. We are a small country of four million.

Hi Doc, You are right; we are a small country but I'm afraid we are as removed from wildlife and nature as any other European country. Many school children don't know where Milk comes from, most can't name basic vegetables like Carrots or Cabbage. The majority of under 16 year olds can't recognise a Blue Tit, Starling, or Thrush. Most adults don't do much better in identifying common Birds or Mammals.
I find farmers on a daily basis who don't know what birds or mammals are on their land. They don't know what birds are a threat to crops and what aren't. They don't know that the Stoat in the shed kills Rats and Rabbits. So, removal from the land is real and even those not removed from the land are removed from Nature.
That said I do find more and more people (Urban & Rural) have a deep respect for wildlife and are eager to learn more. This is why when a child is feeding bread to the Ducks we shouldn't start berating them and tell them they are poisoning the Swan or Duck but tell them about the birds, how they live, what else they eat and suggest a treat next time by bringing some grain.

gerky

Pablo Poor Helmet wrote: »

Hi Doc, You are right; we are a small country but I'm afraid we are as removed from wildlife and nature as any other European country. Many school children don't know where Milk comes from, most can't name basic vegetables like Carrots or Cabbage. The majority of under 16 year olds can't recognise a Blue Tit, Starling, or Thrush. Most adults don't do much better in identifying common Birds or Mammals.
I find farmers on a daily basis who don't know what birds or mammals are on their land. They don't know what birds are a threat to crops and what aren't. They don't know that the Stoat in the shed kills Rats and Rabbits. So, removal from the land is real and even those not removed from the land are removed from Nature.

I can fully confirm this, in the area I live the farmers are completely lacking in even the most basic knowledge of their local environment and I don't mean a few I mean the vast majority.
Or what I find worse again are people who think they have a good knowledge and won't take any input as they think they are never wrong and already know everything.

I better stop now before I start on a rant:)

Birdnuts

gerky wrote: »

I can fully confirm this, in the area I live the farmers are completely lacking in even the most basic knowledge of their local environment and I don't mean a few I mean the vast majority.
Or what I find worse again are people who think they have a good knowledge and won't take any input as they think they are never wrong and already know everything.

I better stop now before I start on a rant:)

Totally agree, you just have to listen to the rantings of the IFA and the Farmers journal to realise the frightning level of ignorance out there on these issues:(

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Oh, some farmers in the past few years have really got into the wildlife and diversity on their farms by providing ponds, planting native trees , planting hegderows etc. But they had to be paid to do it and are now complaining that the payments are high enough! :mad:

magicbastarder

doctor evil wrote: »

What about the pigeons and magpies?

i wouldn't feed them to ducks.

doctor evil

Pablo Poor Helmet wrote: »

Oh, some farmers in the past few years have really got into the wildlife and diversity on their farms by providing ponds, planting native trees , planting hegderows etc. But they had to be paid to do it and are now complaining that the payments are high enough! :mad:

To be fair farming is not exactly a nine to five job. It's my understanding that the money they get goes into projects and the like.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

doctor evil wrote: »

To be fair farming is not exactly a nine to five job. It's my understanding that the money they get goes into projects and the like.

I agree but they get 100% grant for the capital cost of planting a wood, they then get a per hectare payment each year for 20 years but are complaining that the payments should be for 40 years. Remember that the wood is for harvesting, has little ongoing costs after planting (just some thinning) and they will own 100% of the timber when mature.
It's a great scheme for wildlife though and my real point was that many farmers know nothing about wildlife or even their own impact on the environment despite the old "custodians of the countryside". We were discussing respect for nature and if you look at the way some drainage work is done, silage wrap is dumped, hedges removed, even household rubbish is buried on waste ground, it's clear there are farmers who either just don't think about wildlife or couldn't care less. Most rural people I meet, both through work and around my home do have a respect for wildlife as such but are unaware of the names of even the most common birds and unaware of their habitat needs.

Irish Guitarist

I've seen the swans being attacked by teenagers on a number of occasions. Last winter I saw three teens throw a palette in the river and almost kill three swans. I've seen them almost strangled to death by fishing lines. I've seen them eat styrofoam that had been left in the river. I've seen people in speed boats almost plough into them. These things are a daily occurence here (maybe other counties are different but the swans are treated like crap here). Somehow I think being fed bread is the least of their problems.
The main reason I feed them is so I can see if they're ok. If I see the swans being harassed I go to another part of the river to discourage them away from whoever is harassing them. I give them wholegrain or granary bread (never white bread and I certainly wouldn't give them chips) and I also give them some lettuce. I tried other foods but they're so used to being fed bread they won't eat anything else.
As for feeding ducks, if people didn't feed them they'd probably be off somewhere else being shot.

doctor evil

Irish Guitarist wrote: »

As for feeding ducks, if people didn't feed them they'd probably be off somewhere else being shot.

That doesn't make sense, if they are strongly habituated to people (by feeding them) then they are at more risk from scum.

Birdnuts

Irish Guitarist wrote: »

I've seen the swans being attacked by teenagers on a number of occasions. Last winter I saw three teens throw a palette in the river and almost kill three swans. I've seen them almost strangled to death by fishing lines. I've seen them eat styrofoam that had been left in the river. I've seen people in speed boats almost plough into them. These things are a daily occurence here (maybe other counties are different but the swans are treated like crap here). Somehow I think being fed bread is the least of their problems.
The main reason I feed them is so I can see if they're ok. If I see the swans being harassed I go to another part of the river to discourage them away from whoever is harassing them. I give them wholegrain or granary bread (never white bread and I certainly wouldn't give them chips) and I also give them some lettuce. I tried other foods but they're so used to being fed bread they won't eat anything else.
As for feeding ducks, if people didn't feed them they'd probably be off somewhere else being shot.

Scum like that makes me embarressed to be a member of the human race:mad: Keep up the good work mate!!:)

artieanna

In my opinion people from England seem to have a great love for their animals and wildlife (I am from Mayo).
there are Irish people who care, ones who couldn't care less and others that contribute to the suffering of animals.

I think a lack of education has alot to do with it.

I always say if you don't like it (animal, bug etc) leave it alone!


Ah about the bread and birds I was always told to wet bread before giving it to birds as it swells in their breast when they injest water and can cause injury......

I think this says it all

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0618/1224249066789.html

County councillor calls Pine Martin "nasty and vicious bird"

Alun

Deleted User wrote: »

I think this says it all

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0618/1224249066789.html

County councillor calls Pine Martin "nasty and vicious bird"

ROFLMAO (But it's quite sad really.)

doctor evil

What a muppet, thank God yer man lost his seat (article is dated 26th of May)

Partnership is key though.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

artieanna wrote: »

In my opinion people from England seem to have a great love for their animals and wildlife (I am from Mayo).
there are Irish people who care, ones who couldn't care less and others that contribute to the suffering of animals.

I think a lack of education has alot to do with it.

I always say if you don't like it (animal, bug etc) leave it alone!

I honestly think you are being stereotypical there. Of course some people in England love wildlife; so do some in Ireland. Cruely to animals (pets & wild) is a major problem in Britain, as it is elsewhere.
We have a very active education curriculum around Nature and it is proving very successful. It's being copied now in parts of Britain.
I don't think you can make blanket statements about Ireland or Britain being any more, or less, compassionate towards animals that the other, or regarding any lack of education.

Birdnuts

doctor evil wrote: »

What a muppet, thank God yer man lost his seat (article is dated 26th of May)

Partnership is key though.

Did he?? - I feel alot better knowing that:D

Galvasean

Deleted User wrote: »

I think this says it all

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0618/1224249066789.html

County councillor calls Pine Martin "nasty and vicious bird"

That's very sad. There should be some sort of basic common sense exam to be passed before someone is let run for office.