Dog nipped child

JJJJNR

Have had issues with this dog (mini jack russell) with his temperament for a while now, he's a rescue dog and we were told he was a child friendly dog from the very beginning.. Anyway when the kids are around him he sometimes gets very aggetated and growls at the kids. I gave out to him and punished him but he has never acted out apart from yesterday when he nipped at my 3 year old's leg when she was petting him on the head. didnt break the skin but left a small red mark.

So the dog is on a yellow card, and I'm very worried about him around the kids, so much so he's around them even less than before which was very little anyway, and always with an adult.

So why is the dog like this, do I get rid of him before he actually bites or give him another second chance.

Gadfly

I'd suggest a dog handler for advice. Look in the local papers. You are right to be concerned, but see what can be done first.

My name is URL

Was the child being rough with him in any way, or rubbing him too hard unknowingly? Try keeping the kids from petting him and see if he settles.

I don't think you need to start thinking about getting rid of him just yet though

lorna100

Please, please do not just select a 'handler' from the papers. Its an industry where the majority do not have any qualifications etc and in many cases do more harm than good.

Where are you located? I'd suggest you contact Dr. Maureen Byrne, here is her website: http://www.dogsbehavingbadly.ie/ she is one of the few behaviourists who knows exactly what she is doing.

Sigma Force

Get back on to the rescue, this kind of issue can be resolved but it may take some time and a good bit of training. When you talk to the rescue see if they can suggest anything they might be able to fill you in more on the dogs history although sometimes it's hard to know a dogs history when a rescue, see if they can suggest a reliable dog trainer that uses humane methods of training.

irishanimals.ie has a list of dog behaviourist if you are in the Dublin area do check out dog training Ireland.

Was he friendly towards the kids when you got him first or was his like this from the start?

jen_23

We had a torkshire terrier years ago that was a bit like that.
(I had to get a tetnus shot over him once) Though I think it was to over tormenting him (petting, picking up etc etc ) that he got aggravated and would nip at us.

sorella

How old is the dog?

Sounds like over stimulation in a breed that has this temperament. Also he will not realise that he is causing pain; dogs can nip each other in play as they have thick hides.

Our Jack Russell cross can get like this; red meat makes her hyper so check her diet.

But she now responds to NO; took a while.

(Had a cat once that used to think I had a skin like him.)

bushy...

I think small dogs can be like this because they can be easily unintentionally hurt , and they either fear that or it has happened to them in the past.

JJJJNR

thanks guys, I'll get on to the rescue home and see what they say, last resort is getting rid of him, as he's a great little pup (4 years old) but at the same time I dont want to be that naive to think he wont do it again.

sorella

Most of the time these problems are not the dog's fault. Have a close look at this? He nipped, he did not bite. There was no real aggression. Just play overdone and they take their cues from us.

JJJJNR wrote: »

thanks guys, I'll get on to the rescue home and see what they say, last resort is getting rid of him, as he's a great little pup (4 years old) but at the same time I dont want to be that naive to think he wont do it again.

startled

It may have had something to do with how your child was patting him aswell - if you pat a dog on the head the dog considers it like dominating - maybe get your child to try to pat under the neck head instead?

sorella

Yes indeed; we have had to learn that with our rescued dog.

She had been dominated so much she still hates being patted on the head. Under the chin is always fine, then her ears.

Teach the children how to love him.

startled wrote: »

It may have had something to do with how your child was patting him aswell - if you pat a dog on the head the dog considers it like dominating - maybe get your child to try to pat under the neck head instead?

Taltos

Agree with Startled and Sorela.

Fact is the dog did not break skin - this was a warning nip that it would give to others of the pack to leave it alone.
I would say the cause is much more likely to be your child and your dog was just looking to be left alone.

Until you can see if rubbing him under the neck is totally ok - instruct your kids to only gently rub the dog on his back.
He may have a fear around the head / ears that your kid got too close to.

The cause is worth looking into - pound might help - but proper training will also. Just make sure you involve your kids; the dog needs to learn they are higher in the pack; but they also need to learn how to understand what your dog is telling them and more importantly how to behave around the animal.

As a kid I was bitten multiply times by our dog - looking back on it now with hindsight I can see that in every case it was always my fault, I just ignored my dog wanting to be left alone. Stupidly we never got the dog properly trained - when she got old and cranky she used to protect the house by nipping at the ankles of anyone who came in.... Not a good way to stay friendly with the neighbours.

Well done for taking in a rescue dog and I hope it works out for you.

AnneMarieCallan

We are talking about a 3 year old child - who may be frightened by dogs because of this 'nip' -

I would say, be glad it was just a nip but ... find another home for the dog before it becomes a nasty bite.

Perhaps the dog would be better in a home where it gets 100% attention - no children around!

If you decide to go down that route, don't feel bad about it and maybe later when your children are older, go for a more child friendly pet. Golden Retrievers are great pets to have with children in the home.

Good luck to you and hope it works out.

sorella

Wondering if a 3 year old should ever be left unsupervised with a dog?

If the child is taught to respect the needs of a dog, there will be no bite; that would have happened already.

AnneMarieCallan wrote: »

We are talking about a 3 year old child - who may be frightened by dogs because of this 'nip' -

I would say, be glad it was just a nip but ... find another home for the dog before it becomes a nasty bite.

Perhaps the dog would be better in a home where it gets 100% attention - no children around!

If you decide to go down that route, don't feel bad about it and maybe later when your children are older, go for a more child friendly pet. Golden Retrievers are great pets to have with children in the home.

Good luck to you and hope it works out.

Taltos

sorella wrote: »

Wondering if a 3 year old should ever be left unsupervised with a dog?

If the child is taught to respect the needs of a dog, there will be no bite; that would have happened already.

In my family we always had dogs. In fact our first dog used to push over the babies to stop them walking
At the end of the day this dog is showing your child that it is the alpha - hence the suggestion for training. The dog needs to learn it comes after the children.
And with a nippy dog like this - the prev suggestion of leaving the child alone is one I really recommend you take until both the dog and child are retrained.

RICARDO1982

I had been told as a young lad to respect the dog as they have there own little lives. This made sense to me and meant i understood the dog sometimes had her own "off days" too like we do. There are some days my own dog just chills out and prefers to be left alone after his initial hello greetings/ morning pet.

A dog attacking and breaking the skin unprovoked is not on but this does not sound anything like this.

You would never know its possible the kids in the previous home could have been a bit too rough/ mean to him. If it was me i would give him a chance and keep an eye on them. There is no reason why he couldnt develop a good bond with the kids and family given time.

Sigma Force

No child that age should be left unsupervised with any animal.

The Sweeper

I take issue with this concept of "petting the dog the wrong way". We had a labrador as kids and the smaller kids on our road could swing out of his ears and pull his tail (the little b*stards, but that's neither here nor there) - the point is the worst he'd do is yelp and move away from them. If it all got too much for him, he'd go all the way home and take a time out in the yard.

There shouldn't be a "wrong way" to pet your dog that'll cause him to react with a nip - especially not a dog that's around small children. I appreciate that there are rescue cases that you have to handle with care and special consideration - but as an adult, you make that choice for yourself, and you suck up the consequences if you get nipped, scratched or all-out-bitten.

With the OP's JRT, I'd be looking at a total retraining, and if that doesn't work, rehoming to a family with no children. As the others have said, go to a trainer with a lot of experience and excellent references, because - and this is just my opinon - you need to ask them to do an initial assessment of the dog, and if they say "I can get him better, but he'll always have a dominant temperament that'll mean he'll always be a risk for biting the smaller kids", then work toward rehoming him instead of spending a pile of cash on training.

Who knows, the dog may be happier in the long run if he doesn't HAVE to deal with small children, and could live a long and happy life in the hands of an experienced owner who knows the dog's own limits and problems. JRTs are a popular dog, and the rehoming route doesn't have to spell doom for the dog at all.

sorella

This is a dog.

Our rescued dog will still blench if you pat her on the head. So we do not do that.

Because there is no need; and we understand her and want her to be happy with what is left of her life.

It is a dominance thing with dogs.

Especially some rescues. ( our's is an extreme case and we have a trainer of some 40 yrs experience on tap)

Who I talked with about this as I am well aware I am learner in dogs.

And he did not bite; a small warning nip when too roughly handled is not a bite; had he been aggresssive he would have bitten.

It is unprovoked aggression that raises alarms.

And yes, he needs "time out" when the kids get too rough.

And for them and the parents to respect this; often rescues are desperate to please.

It is the children who need training here, not the dog.

Whether or not the children fear dogs will depend on how the parents handle this. If they punish the dog without teaching the children?

Or if they let the small ones play usupervised?

We rehomed two JRT puppies a few years ago; one went to a blind, disabled boy and they grew up togther. The dog of course all but lived in the boy;s bed.

There were doubtless scratches and nips as the two learned each others limits.

But that wee dog changed the child's life; enriched it beyond measure.

And rescuing a dog is a truly wonderful thing to do.

Minesajackdaniels wrote: »

I take issue with this concept of "petting the dog the wrong way". We had a labrador as kids and the smaller kids on our road could swing out of his ears and pull his tail (the little b*stards, but that's neither here nor there) - the point is the worst he'd do is yelp and move away from them. If it all got too much for him, he'd go all the way home and take a time out in the yard.

There shouldn't be a "wrong way" to pet your dog that'll cause him to react with a nip - especially not a dog that's around small children. I appreciate that there are rescue cases that you have to handle with care and special consideration - but as an adult, you make that choice for yourself, and you suck up the consequences if you get nipped, scratched or all-out-bitten.

With the OP's JRT, I'd be looking at a total retraining, and if that doesn't work, rehoming to a family with no children. As the others have said, go to a trainer with a lot of experience and excellent references, because - and this is just my opinon - you need to ask them to do an initial assessment of the dog, and if they say "I can get him better, but he'll always have a dominant temperament that'll mean he'll always be a risk for biting the smaller kids", then work toward rehoming him instead of spending a pile of cash on training.

Who knows, the dog may be happier in the long run if he doesn't HAVE to deal with small children, and could live a long and happy life in the hands of an experienced owner who knows the dog's own limits and problems. JRTs are a popular dog, and the rehoming route doesn't have to spell doom for the dog at all.

JJJJNR

Well we all spent a lot more time with the dog this weekend, I showed the kids how to behave around him and I think he's a lot happier now.

Under my supervision I got the kids to play more with him (throw his toys etc) and reward him, also to bring him for walks where they controlled the lead.

Started off he refused to bring back the toys to anyone but me, but once i asked them to compliment the dog and have a bit more authority with him he responded properly to the children, and the 3 yr old also!

Going to continue with that.

sorella

Sounds very good indeed

JJJJNR wrote: »

Well we all spent a lot more time with the dog this weekend, I showed the kids how to behave around him and I think he's a lot happier now.

Under my supervision I got the kids to play more with him (throw his toys etc) and reward him, also to bring him for walks where they controlled the lead.

Started off he refused to bring back the toys to anyone but me, but once i asked them to compliment the dog and have a bit more authority with him he responded properly to the children, and the 3 yr old also!

Going to continue with that.

Outkast_IRE

Agreed rescue dogs need to be extra care and consideration, to me any form of biting is unacceptable but with a rescue dog you need to be aware of triggers that set it off.
Does the dog give a warning growl or does its posture change when hes about to snap , might be a good idea to teach the kids when to leave dog alone if it shows any signs before hand

peasant

Minesajackdaniels wrote: »

I take issue with this concept of "petting the dog the wrong way". We had a labrador as kids and the smaller kids on our road could swing out of his ears and pull his tail (the little b*stards, but that's neither here nor there) - the point is the worst he'd do is yelp and move away from them. If it all got too much for him, he'd go all the way home and take a time out in the yard.

Of course there is such a thing as petting a dog the wrong way.
How about a poke in the eye or in the nose? Sticking fingers into ears? Touching sexual organs? Anything else that causes pain?

All easily (and inadvertently) done by little kids (and sometimes not so little ones :mad:).

That's why children and dogs need to be supervised.

JJJJNR

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

Agreed rescue dogs need to be extra care and consideration, to me any form of biting is unacceptable but with a rescue dog you need to be aware of triggers that set it off.
Does the dog give a warning growl or does its posture change when hes about to snap , might be a good idea to teach the kids when to leave dog alone if it shows any signs before hand

He sometimes growls at them as they walk past him, (not anymore though) but I'll try and get them to understand that also cheers.

BryanL

are people here nuts.

saying the kids need to change their behavior to accomadate the dog as top dog?

The dog should not be allowed to domintae things, rescue or no rescue

Noopti

Good to see you are taking a positive approach with training both the dog, and the kids when interacting with the dog.

fishfoodie

peasant wrote: »

Of course there is such a thing as petting a dog the wrong way.
How about a poke in the eye or in the nose? Sticking fingers into ears? Touching sexual organs? Anything else that causes pain?

All easily (and inadvertently) done by little kids (and sometimes not so little ones :mad:).

That's why children and dogs need to be supervised.

Teaching kids to read a dogs body language is always a good idea. With the best will in the world, it's impossible to always supervise a child, teach a man to fish & all that.

When a child is raised with one dog, they can assume all dogs will react the same way. So they might go immediately to pet dogs running stray, say in the park.

Its important they realise that not all dogs will be as friendly/tolerant as their own, & learn to judge dogs mood.